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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14609285 - 06/13/11 10:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
You expect a bank to give you a loan and make sure that you understand every line, yet you do not hold your government to the same standard.




The Government wouldn't be asking ordinary Americans not to outsource jobs - they would be asking businesses.  That's the difference.




Who starts, builds, and runs the businesses? ORDINARY AMERICANS
Like when you said you did not have the capital to start a business like Siemens, I think Bill Gates did not have much capital to start Microsoft but he did it, so did Steve Jobs, so did Mark Cuban, he started out as a bartender.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14609487 - 06/13/11 10:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Who starts, builds, and runs the businesses? ORDINARY AMERICANS



You don't get it.  If I'm a bartender, I'm not reading about export law.  If I'm a fireman, I'm not reading about export law.  If I'm a real estate agent, I'm not reading export law.  Subject matter experts in export law read export law.  However, all of the above buy homes.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFink Ployd
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Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 16
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14609623 - 06/13/11 11:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Fink Ployd said:
School was supposed to be about learning about life and becoming an overall more educated person.  A place to learn and discuss all the things that make an educated person: history, math, science, philosophy, art, current events.

School is setup for people to get jobs now, instead of being focused on producing holistically informed individuals.





since when was school ever teaching people about life? school has always
provided a basic education in several areas as you've mentioned, it's up
to a student to learn about life and to further their education beyond
the basics that school taught




Maybe the word "life" was kind of vague. It is about learning all the things that can help you understand the world around you more. Give you the tools to observe the world in a thoughtful and unbiased way, not train you to find a job and just become another ant in the colony.

I was raised with politics all around me...it was extremely easy to see the liberal bias in public education. Take that as you want, but it is undeniable. I watched one of my undergrad history teachers brainwash a class of freshman. It was kind of disturbing.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14609797 - 06/14/11 12:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Who starts, builds, and runs the businesses? ORDINARY AMERICANS



You don't get it.  If I'm a bartender, I'm not reading about export law.  If I'm a fireman, I'm not reading about export law.  If I'm a real estate agent, I'm not reading export law.  Subject matter experts in export law read export law.  However, all of the above buy homes.




You are implying that businesses are not made up of ordinary americans, that is all they are made up of though. Regular joes like you and I. Some people are better than others at some things, but we are all just regular people.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14609816 - 06/14/11 12:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Some people are better than others at some things, but we are all just regular people.



Exactly.  Those that are experts in export law do export law.  But everyone buys homes.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisiblememes
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14609964 - 06/14/11 12:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
  But everyone buys homes.



Except for the ~33% of the US population that doesn't.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: memes]
    #14609993 - 06/14/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
  But everyone buys homes.



Except for the ~33% of the US population that doesn't.



Ok smarty pants.  :crazy:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14610067 - 06/14/11 01:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Some people are better than others at some things, but we are all just regular people.



Exactly.  Those that are experts in export law do export law.  But everyone buys homes.



Not even close to everyone buys a home in any country.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14610082 - 06/14/11 01:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

A lot of people have insurance as well, do they take the time to read every detail, not usually. Does this make the insurance companies bad? Why do you blame the banks again? If not for the mountains of regulation the contracts would be much simpler to read and understand without the use of a dictionary or lawyer. they must use certain terms and include certain clauses due to federal regulations. Ever wonder why at the end of every political message they say who it was endorsed by? Due to federal regulation. Ever wonder why tax law is so convoluted? You guessed it government regulation. I could do this all night, yet you will never belive that what they are doing causes more harm than good. How many small business went under due to Sarbanes Oxley? I am not sure the exact figure but even one is entirely too many. Way to help the average person, you should thank them the next time you need a credit card or a doctor and cannot get a good one.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14610549 - 06/14/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
You expect a bank to give you a loan and make sure that you understand every line, yet you do not hold your government to the same standard.




The Government wouldn't be asking ordinary Americans not to outsource jobs - they would be asking businesses.  That's the difference.



Who do you think owns businesses?  Martians?  Reptilians?  Businesses don't do anything.  The people who run them do.

ShroomyJohn I understood that bill well enough to know that there were NO prohibitions in it preventing outsourcing.  There were some minor tax penalties.  So I ask you again:

How do you propose we prevent outsourcing jobs?


--------------------

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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14610818 - 06/14/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

How do you propose we prevent outsourcing jobs?




A good start would be to require free and open trade.  That means, not in the way some politicians use the term, but actual free trade.  Many countries slap a 40% to 100% import duty on most products made in USA, yet the US doesn't do the same in return.  If a country charges tariffs on our products, and we do not reciprocate, it stifles the two-way street that trade should be. 

The original arguments made in the 1980s were that by helping other countries establish industry and trade, their populations would make more money, thus would buy American products, raising the standard of living in both countries. However, when our products cost twice as much due to tariffs, it puts us at a disadvantage in the marketplace.

Also, when a country such as China suppresses worker rights to keep wages low, it encourages outsourcing, but the low-wage earners in that country can't afford to buy American products in return.  When the US loses jobs and the resulting tax revenue from outsourcing, yet doesn't make up for it with increased exports, it contributes to the massive unemployment and budget deficits we're experiencing today.

Outsourcing per se is not as much the problem as the huge trade imbalance.

For those in a tizzy over the auto bailout, don't forget that for every union job on an assembly plant, there are 9 additional, mostly non-union support jobs in the local economy.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Invisiblememes
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14610897 - 06/14/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Outsourcing per se is not as much the problem as the huge trade imbalance.

For those in a tizzy over the auto bailout, don't forget that for every union job on an assembly plant, there are 9 additional, mostly non-union support jobs in the local economy.
RR



RR I don't think you post a whooooole lot in these giant-argument threads, so conseuently I don't know if our views align most of the time...

...but this quote is spot on.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14611281 - 06/14/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

How do you propose we prevent outsourcing jobs?




A good start would be to require free and open trade.  That means, not in the way some politicians use the term, but actual free trade.  Many countries slap a 40% to 100% import duty on most products made in USA, yet the US doesn't do the same in return.  If a country charges tariffs on our products, and we do not reciprocate, it stifles the two-way street that trade should be.




Aside from the fact that I wasn't asking you I believe you are mistaken about the one way nature of trade tariffs.  We most certainly do slap tariffs on other nations' goods.  http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/01/04/106184/us-government-seeks-to-punish.html ; Sometimes the disputes are brought to court .
Quote:


The original arguments made in the 1980s were that by helping other countries establish industry and trade, their populations would make more money, thus would buy American products, raising the standard of living in both countries. However, when our products cost twice as much due to tariffs, it puts us at a disadvantage in the marketplace.




Our products are not generally unfairly taxed.  Our labor costs are grotesque.
Quote:



Also, when a country such as China suppresses worker rights to keep wages low, it encourages outsourcing, but the low-wage earners in that country can't afford to buy American products in return.  When the US loses jobs and the resulting tax revenue from outsourcing, yet doesn't make up for it with increased exports, it contributes to the massive unemployment and budget deficits we're experiencing today.




The Chinese fuck their people over.  Duh.  Your answer to this is..............what exactly? 
Quote:



Outsourcing per se is not as much the problem as the huge trade imbalance.




OK.  I agree.  I don't think outsourcing is a problem at all.  It keeps prices lower for the American consumer.  Yipee.  Our money buys more.
Quote:





For those in a tizzy over the auto bailout, don't forget that for every union job on an assembly plant, there are 9 additional, mostly non-union support jobs in the local economy.
RR




:flowstone:  How would a union job provide that more than any other job?  If there were more union jobs we would be even less competitive and the trade imbalance would be even worse.  Not to mention the increase in outsourcing as a result of the increase in labor costs.

I haven't managed to find an answer to my question anywhere in there.  Unless you are trying to say that higher wages for American workers will prevent outsourcing.  Which is fucking whacko.


--------------------

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 12 years, 24 days
Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14612603 - 06/14/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

How do you propose we prevent outsourcing jobs?




A good start would be to require free and open trade.  That means, not in the way some politicians use the term, but actual free trade.  Many countries slap a 40% to 100% import duty on most products made in USA, yet the US doesn't do the same in return.  If a country charges tariffs on our products, and we do not reciprocate, it stifles the two-way street that trade should be.




Aside from the fact that I wasn't asking you I believe you are mistaken about the one way nature of trade tariffs.  We most certainly do slap tariffs on other nations' goods.  http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/01/04/106184/us-government-seeks-to-punish.html ; Sometimes the disputes are brought to court .
Quote:


The original arguments made in the 1980s were that by helping other countries establish industry and trade, their populations would make more money, thus would buy American products, raising the standard of living in both countries. However, when our products cost twice as much due to tariffs, it puts us at a disadvantage in the marketplace.




Our products are not generally unfairly taxed.  Our labor costs are grotesque.
Quote:



Also, when a country such as China suppresses worker rights to keep wages low, it encourages outsourcing, but the low-wage earners in that country can't afford to buy American products in return.  When the US loses jobs and the resulting tax revenue from outsourcing, yet doesn't make up for it with increased exports, it contributes to the massive unemployment and budget deficits we're experiencing today.




The Chinese fuck their people over.  Duh.  Your answer to this is..............what exactly? 
Quote:



Outsourcing per se is not as much the problem as the huge trade imbalance.




OK.  I agree.  I don't think outsourcing is a problem at all.  It keeps prices lower for the American consumer.  Yipee.  Our money buys more.
Quote:





For those in a tizzy over the auto bailout, don't forget that for every union job on an assembly plant, there are 9 additional, mostly non-union support jobs in the local economy.
RR




:flowstone:  How would a union job provide that more than any other job?  If there were more union jobs we would be even less competitive and the trade imbalance would be even worse.  Not to mention the increase in outsourcing as a result of the increase in labor costs.

I haven't managed to find an answer to my question anywhere in there.  Unless you are trying to say that higher wages for American workers will prevent outsourcing.  Which is fucking whacko.




He did answer your question zappa, laizzez faire trade would definetly help slow the outsourcing of jobs to a trickle. If we had the chance to sell our goods and services in a true free market many more jobs would be kept in country by means of more capital being available. We would only outsource jobs to other countries if we, the people producing already, chose to because of a better quality product or the same quality with cheaper labor.  There will always be individuals who can or will do it cheaper, it is human nature to want more for yourself and if doing more for less gets it done then they will. It is a good thing that we outsource certain jobs, if we did not have cheap outside labor many items we consider basic staples would be exponentialy more expensive, and out of reach for many.

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