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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14611977 - 06/14/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:

And "of" is not a verb. It's "have". (I know. I'm a Nazi.)



THANK YOU.
Jesus, i've been seeing this "of" shit everywhere lately.

"Oh.. my.. FREAKING! GERD!"


--------------------
I need Jesus.


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: thoughts]
    #14612226 - 06/14/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i think discussion of religion is pretty much like discussing pokemon, not really my cup of tea.

philosophy and metaphysics aren't really my cup of tea either but there have been some nice responses in here so i figured i would weigh in.

I think its in human nature to believe in and look for gods, because instinctively we understand orders of magnitude.  We can see with our eyes that life extends to scales much smaller than what we deal with.  Instinctively we understand there must be some sort of organization to larger scales.

Peak of hubris to assume we have anything beyond solely the ability to recognize those things exist. Bacteria don't claim knowledge of our actions or reasons (i assume), we shouldn't assume understanding of the deeds or desires of things greater than us.

edit: also, OP your logic doesn't follow.  You can formulate a question, and then formulate an accurate answer based on observation.  Just because the question is a product of humanity doesn't mean the answer is... a product of the question asker?


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Edited by teamkiller (06/14/11 01:34 PM)


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Offlinemicro8gb
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Registered: 04/13/11
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14612315 - 06/14/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:


Quote:

micro8gb said:
  If we invented the question itself then we had to of invented the answers as well..




This doesn't make sense at all.

And "of" is not a verb. It's "have". (I know. I'm a Nazi.)




OK so let me rephrase this for everybody.. what if asking WHY the universe was created is irrelevant to the greater scheme of things that we just cant comprehend yet? what if WHY is a meaningless question, yet we are so wrapped up in it? then are ANSWERS are false. because were answering a meaningless irrelevant question.


--------------------
The wise person,
puts himself last,
and thereby finds himself first;
holds himself outside,
and thereby remains at the center;
abandons himself,
and is thereby fulfilled


-Lao Tzu


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14612336 - 06/14/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i would agree with that, but its an opinion, not like a logical proof of anything.


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Offlinemicro8gb
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: teamkiller]
    #14612359 - 06/14/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
i would agree with that, but its an opinion, not like a logical proof of anything.




but even the ability to ask questions at all started somewhere in the evolutionary scale, so the ability to answer then naturally followed.. If the ability to ask questions was an anomaly then the answers are even more meaningless and irrelevant.


--------------------
The wise person,
puts himself last,
and thereby finds himself first;
holds himself outside,
and thereby remains at the center;
abandons himself,
and is thereby fulfilled


-Lao Tzu


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Invisiblewaves


Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14612380 - 06/14/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

micro8gb said:
OK so let me rephrase this for everybody.. what if asking WHY the universe was created is irrelevant to the greater scheme of things that we just cant comprehend yet? what if WHY is a meaningless question, yet we are so wrapped up in it? then are ANSWERS are false. because were answering a meaningless irrelevant question.




I'm still not quite following you. Asking why the universe is created IS irrelevant if YOU decide that it is irrelevant.

WHY is only a meaningless question if you decide that it is meaningless to you, since WE are the beings that give a question meaning. It seems subjective to me.

I don't believe things just have inherent meanings, I believe that we give them meanings, so I believe that really it is up to the individual as to whether something has meaning or not.

So in your case, I would argue that if YOU decide that asking "why" is meaningless, then it IS meaningless to you


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Offlineorison
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: waves] * 1
    #14612415 - 06/14/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hi, this is Larry King. The phone-in topic Today: ET is he Jesus or just a hairless monkey?..  :etjesus:


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Offlinemicro8gb
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: waves]
    #14612422 - 06/14/11 02:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheDukeofLizards said:
Quote:

micro8gb said:
OK so let me rephrase this for everybody.. what if asking WHY the universe was created is irrelevant to the greater scheme of things that we just cant comprehend yet? what if WHY is a meaningless question, yet we are so wrapped up in it? then are ANSWERS are false. because were answering a meaningless irrelevant question.




I'm still not quite following you. Asking why the universe is created IS irrelevant if YOU decide that it is irrelevant.

WHY is only a meaningless question if you decide that it is meaningless to you, since WE are the beings that give a question meaning. It seems subjective to me.

I don't believe things just have inherent meanings, I believe that we give them meanings, so I believe that really it is up to the individual as to whether something has meaning or not.

So in your case, I would argue that if YOU decide that asking "why" is meaningless, then it IS meaningless to you




so your saying that to each person the universe was created differently? putting meaning into something doesnt change whats actually happening just because someone deems it meaningless or meaningful. Most people put meaning into WHY but even if WHY truly IS meaningless, then people adding meaning to it arent going to change that, in the greater scheme of things, not just subjective thoughts people have.


--------------------
The wise person,
puts himself last,
and thereby finds himself first;
holds himself outside,
and thereby remains at the center;
abandons himself,
and is thereby fulfilled


-Lao Tzu


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14612453 - 06/14/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with what you're saying micro, but you're starting your declarations with "assume this is true, If blah blah blah..."

I dunno, its just a weird way of phrasing things.  Probably you'd get better responses in the psychedelic forum.

I would say, take up video games man. philosophy games are not fun, its just ugly semantic word games.

Or better yet, get a bio chem degree and PLAY GOD WITH THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF LIFE.


--------------------


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Offlinemicro8gb
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: teamkiller]
    #14612476 - 06/14/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i guess my "proof that all religions are false" is just another theory :doh:


--------------------
The wise person,
puts himself last,
and thereby finds himself first;
holds himself outside,
and thereby remains at the center;
abandons himself,
and is thereby fulfilled


-Lao Tzu


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14612902 - 06/14/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well, you could boil it down thusly...

As limited beings, how can we fully understand the limitless universe from whence we came?

Also, most religions are unprovable and based on faith.
So it's pretty easy to tear them down based on this premise if on nothing else.


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Invisiblewaves


Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 2,213
Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14612933 - 06/14/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

micro8gb said:
so your saying that to each person the universe was created differently?




That wasn't exactly what I was trying to say, but I believe reality is subjective, so in my opinion, yes, this could possibly be the case


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14613103 - 06/14/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14613398 - 06/14/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hey micro.

Welcome to the Shroomery.

I like what you are gnawing on in this thread and wanted to make some comments.

First, I'd just like to ask if you have seen 2001: A Space Odyssey?  Certain aspects of that film seem quite relevant to what you are talking about here, specifically, the idea of an evolutionary shift in consciousness.  If you haven't seen it, you should turn off the computer right now and go rent it or something, or pirate it, or take whatever measures necessary.  At the very least skip the next couple of paragraphs here.  Look for a line like this ------------- below.  It means "You're safe."

In the movie, there is a monolith that seems to appear one day out of nowhere many hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago.  The thing just up and appears one night in front of a tribe of monkeymen.  You're reading this, so you've seen the movie and you know what I'm talking about.  It's the fucking monolith.

So, the monkey-men are inspired by this structure.  They begin approaching it and can't help but touch it.  They are so intrigued that you get the idea, or at least the film seems to imply or at least what I took away from it is that the monkey-men are inspired to begin asking questions.  Perhaps the monkeys are aware that the monolith is an unnatural form, that it had to have been constructed, who knows?  At any rate, after seeing the thing, they begin constructing tools.  This section of the film is called "The Dawn of Man".  It is interesting.

--------------

Just think of all the things that have become possible for humankind because of the basic ability to ask questions.  I truly do wonder how long beings with the ability to question reality were walking around before one actually did?

I don't know.  You poked my thought-goo.

I want to talk a little more about your question in the grand Ole O.P.

I don't make the same jump you do man.  Sorry.  Just because "why" is a manmade question does not mean that "God" is nonexistent. 

I say this because people at one time asked "Why do leaves fall from the trees in the fall?"  We know the answer to this now, but this hasn't stopped the leaves from falling.

Now, whether or not asking "why" and digging around in philosophy / metaphysics is a worthwhile endeavor, I agree with dude who said that is a subjective matter.

Does everybody alive get their own universe?  In a way, I think they do.  In a very substantial way as a matter of fact.

But that discussion is for a different post.  I really just wanted to talk about monoliths because your post made me think about monoliths.

Reap it.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineROFL_my_ WAFFLE


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: pouihi]
    #14613419 - 06/14/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pouihi said:






:lolsy:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: nglsnv]
    #14613457 - 06/14/11 05:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I covered why Talmudic Judaism/Zionism is false in this thread;

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14610156

Quote:

Talmud is in direct violation of mosaic law and the ten commandments with what it says about gentiles.




Quote:

The prophecy says that the Israelites cannot return to Israel until the messianic age.




True Torah Jews Against Zionism.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: Shins]
    #14613463 - 06/14/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I believe something similar has happened with the other Abrahamic religions.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinemicro8gb
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: Shins]
    #14616269 - 06/15/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I believe something similar has happened with the other Abrahamic religions.




i read your post.. it didnt make much sense.. how is that the key to all conspiracies?


--------------------
The wise person,
puts himself last,
and thereby finds himself first;
holds himself outside,
and thereby remains at the center;
abandons himself,
and is thereby fulfilled


-Lao Tzu


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OfflineClamence
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what's false about it? aside from most everything? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14616934 - 06/15/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

None of the details are what should matter.  People eat droogs, too much food, give each other presents, and fuck.  Some people hoist other people up on sticks.  Some people think if they suffer you'll be happier.  Some people feel sorry for what they've done one day a year.  It's all different stuff people really do.  Who cares if no one walked on water, who cares if some one did?  This is serious business to lots and lots of people.  Blow each other up stuff.  Red green red purple.  Dick the butthole.  Just because there's no all powerful being doesn't mean the dumb stuff people believe have no effect on things. 
Context.  Maybe ask yourself. Do your beliefs --or lack thereof-- empower you to give your life meaning in the context of your current situation?  Are they keeping you from how you would like to live or what you would like to accomplish?  Do they hurt other people?  Are they a large scale device to give certain interests a level of controlling population?  What is your actual world view? Do you have a world view beyond what your sense seem to inform you?  How does language interact here?  I dunno..


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Proof all religions are false? [Re: micro8gb]
    #14616985 - 06/15/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

micro8gb said:
Everybody wonders why we are here, what is actually going on in the universe beyond our control, how the universe works, why the universe is working, etc. especially The last question: WHY the universe even exits at all.

  Alot of people come up with very in depth answers as to why like Christianity, That we are all the same consciousness, this is a test, The coming of the great white hanker cheif, and all those. which are very interesting.

  The thing is, IF evolution is correct, which it seems to be, then humans gained a conscious shift somewhere during the evolutionary process somehow. weather the stoned ape theory (apes started eating magic mushrooms and gained a more complex way of thinking) or a random mutation in the brain that spread throughout the population, humans learned to ask: WHY.

  Notice how ONLY after gaining this more complex way of thinking did we start coming up with answers to this question of why.
  So i guess what im trying to say is that if humans themselves INVENTED 'why', then all the answers to 'why' are also invented therefor proof that all religions as answers to "why the universe is here" are false.
  If we invented the question itself then (edit:) it is probably irrelevant. and meaningless... I get the feeling that WHY is a meaningless question in the greater scheme of things and we just cant comprehend the truth yet..

but even the ability to ask questions at all started somewhere in the evolutionary scale, so the ability to answer then naturally followed.. If the ability to ask questions was an anomalies then the answers are even more meaningless and irrelevant.





Your thinking too hard about this BOy. Stop trying to convince yourself that Christianity is false, and you are capable of awesome wisdom and critical thinking skills that will save you from this life or the next.

Christianity may be right or wrong, but the simple non answerable, pure insanity of its doctrine is what will drive people like you, or me to insanity who try to rationalize it.

Your here in this thread because of one reason. You are just as afraid as the devote Mormon, or the conservative right wing asshat :fishslap:


Have fun. The moment youve picked a side on the issue of Religion, the other sides voice will continue to mock your new found conclusion.

What are you afraid of? And what can you really know about the nature of our existance.....better yet why do you even care :strokebeard2: Are you frightened? Confused at the mere fact your a living being in a random ass existance, sent on a small planet to die with everyone else!?

Enjoy the existentialist crisis  :durrhurr:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


Edited by Almond Flour (06/15/11 11:29 AM)


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