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OfflineBlueflowers
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GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome!
    #14609889 - 06/14/11 12:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

So I set up my monotub 3 days ago according to damions coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595

i taped up my holes with duck tape mixed coir/verm with spawn and spread evenly throughout the tub , not using a casing layer. upon peaking into the tub today i saw the tiny grains doing quite well but not really spreading any myc. After researching i believe the cause is due to my tub being quite air tight and having little to no GE due to the holes being taped up, unlike damions tubs who's lids are "loose" providing needed GE.

My question is weather i should be bothered to replace the tape with polyfil and risk the contams that could settle on the exposed substrate or just leave it and see how it goes?

Cheers guys

BF:thumbup:


Edited by Blueflowers (06/14/11 12:29 AM)


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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14609907 - 06/14/11 12:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

if it has no way to breath, you might just put polyfill in one whole. but, you don't want it to get too much fresh air if you have grains showing.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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OfflineBlueflowers
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14609989 - 06/14/11 01:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Stuffed 1 of the top holes with polyfil , will keep you posted on growth in the next couple days :smile:


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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14610037 - 06/14/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

next time sprinkle a little coco coir over the top so you can't see any grains. that will help you out alot. grains will contaminate to easy.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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Invisibleschmoopy
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14610060 - 06/14/11 01:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

3 days isn't very long.

if i were you i would wait awhile longer and see how things progress, give the mycelium a chance to recover and it will gain momentum. It sounds risky to mess around with the airflow during this stage. i believe that the average time for a monotub to colonize is around 10-14 days.


i have been taping the holes and wrapping the top of tubs in plastic wrap after mixing up the spawn and substrate.
i saw this demonstrated in ProfessorPinHead's video guide.

i leave the tub sealed like this until i see pins forming. working great for me. :thumbup:

good luck.


--------------------
The observer is the observed.
-J. Krishnamurti


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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: schmoopy]
    #14610088 - 06/14/11 01:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

damn that's just the opposite to my method. i open my tubs at least once a day to make sure it isn't drying out. i case with coir, so i don't really worry about contams. i think coir is the casing of the future. holds lots of water and has an awesome pinset. i'm a noob and have been trying different casings. peat verm contams to easy, shitty pinset with the verm and coir, but my straight coir is bringing a sea of shrooms. i know that the casing is suppose to be nute free. i think that coir is fixing to change that theory. plus if you make a tub and put an inch of coir on top, the sub has time to consolidate before the coir on top is fully colonized. did i mention the awesome pinset and contam resistance.




--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


Edited by uncle bobo (06/14/11 02:00 AM)


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Invisibleschmoopy
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14610207 - 06/14/11 02:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

bobo- are you saying you open your tubs once a day during colonization? right after you mix the spawn?

it's interesting how totally different methods can be used successfully.

i haven't had any problems with drying out during colonization because i have been sealing them up pretty well.
i also use manure and kelp in my substrate mix, so feel safest with the least amount of exposure to contamination possible until the mycelium has really established itself.

i am new to this as well, still putting the pieces together, and am about to start experimenting with casing layers.
have you done any late casings?


--------------------
The observer is the observed.
-J. Krishnamurti


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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: schmoopy]
    #14610246 - 06/14/11 02:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

no late casings. i always thought that you should get atleast one fresh air exchange a day during colonization, plus it gives me a chance to take a peak. i case at the same time i make my tub. straight coco. i'm sticking with this method. seems to work really well. plus no contams at all. like i said though i'm a noob. those are actually my first pins. i have other tubs that are cased in various methods. they are all starting to pin, but nothing compares to my straight coir casing.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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OfflineAjaxx
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14610812 - 06/14/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i had polyfil in my tubs when they were colonizing. i let them colonize for 7 days, then introduced them to 12/12 light.

my next grow, im going to do the same thing, leave the polyfil in the holes until fully colonized, and then take all of it out once going into fruiting. at the very end of my grow, i had the lids completely OFF of a few of the remaining tubs and the mushrooms just blew up and got huge quick.


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Offlineredcat
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Ajaxx]
    #14610896 - 06/14/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

My last grow I used polyfill in the holes while colonizing. After 3 days i moved the monotub to the basement and didnt realize that the polyfill in one of the holes fell out completely. It sat for 2 days like this before i noticed and popped it back in. Everything came out ok. The tub consisted of 4qts popcorn,1 brick coir,2 qts verm. I found that using polyfill in the holes during colonization instead of covering with duct tape gave me a nicer pinset.:cool:


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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: redcat]
    #14611271 - 06/14/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

for that matter. as long as your using coir and no grain is showing. you could just leave polyfill out from start to finish. just have to mist more.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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Invisibleprismism
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14611418 - 06/14/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

uncle bobo said:
no late casings. i always thought that you should get atleast one fresh air exchange a day during colonization, plus it gives me a chance to take a peak. i case at the same time i make my tub. straight coco. i'm sticking with this method. seems to work really well. plus no contams at all. like i said though i'm a noob. those are actually my first pins. i have other tubs that are cased in various methods. they are all starting to pin, but nothing compares to my straight coir casing.




I'm about to be a stickler here, but technically speaking, you're not actually 'casing' if you're using a nutrient-rich substrate like coir. You're just adding more bulk substrate on top of your colonized bulk substrate. You're kind of defeating the purpose of a casing layer when you do that, since the casing is not supposed to fully colonize, and meant to provide moisture.


--------------------
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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: prismism]
    #14611446 - 06/14/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

agreed, but i am very satitsfied with the straight bulk coir. i should have said that i don't prefer a casing on my coir. i only prefer coir on my sub.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14611460 - 06/14/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

uncle bobo said:
next time sprinkle a little coco coir over the top so you can't see any grains. that will help you out alot. grains will contaminate to easy.




You don't need to do this. I've actually found that I get better pinsets w/out the pseudo-casing layer.

Fully colonized grain & properly pasteurized bulk are both extremely contam resistant, no need to worry about exposed grains in colonizing bulk.

Don't open the lid of your mono ever while it's colonizing. You're causing CO2 levels to drop too low, thus causing premature evaporation from the substrate. Therefore, causing early pinning.

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

To what degree do we restrict GE during Bulk Colonization?



To the degree necessary to hold CO2 in the neighborhood of 10K to 20K ppm.  You can get a CO2 meter for under $300.
RR




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14054208#14054208

there's where I got it.

Also, if you've got air-tight lids, use extremely dense polyfil for GE in the holes or cover it w/ EZ-Felt or SFDs...


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14611507 - 06/14/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

thanks for the advice. like i said i'm a complete noob. although i do have a masters degree in mycology at the university of shroomery.org. half of what i have been doing, i have kind of been proving a point to people i know. i have been breaking all of the rules. and doing well at it. i didn't drill holes in the tub until the end. and i might not have checked it every day. but i've been so excited i just had to keep peaking and playing with shit. plus i was trying to get my coir wetter. i think i might have been on the dry side to start. maybe i shouldn't have squeezed the coir so hard.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14611541 - 06/14/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You don't want the bulk substrate to be overly wet. I use Damion5050's tek to the T on water content, works great everytime. One time I added an extra pint of water (when I first started) cuz I thought it was too dry. Nope, the extra pint of boiling water made the coir too wet & my flushes on the tubs weren't nearly what they should've been.

IME, I've found a bit on the dry side is better for bulk substrate vs. being on the wet side.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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Offlinetotal
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14611578 - 06/14/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
Fully colonized grain & properly pasteurized bulk are both extremely contam resistant, no need to worry about exposed grains in colonizing bulk.




Thanks TL...
About time people started preaching this...
For the past few years, i have been "hand mixing" my spawn into my bulk subs evenly...
No more layering...
I found that i got better/faster colonization by even mixing...
Layering and putting a coir layer ontop w/o grains mixed in it, is a bad idea :super:


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Invisibleuncle bobo
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: total]
    #14611688 - 06/14/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

interesting concept. maybe i will do a war against the two methods. i'm down to give it a try anyway. my life is one big experiment anyhow.


--------------------

AKA Wolfgang Grajonza                 
IKO MYCO. MEDICINAL FARMS.


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Offlinetotal
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: uncle bobo]
    #14611708 - 06/14/11 12:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

And when i say "hand mixing"...
Please use gloves...
I prefer nitrile!


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: total]
    #14611745 - 06/14/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:imwithstupid:

I use dishwashing gloves, that way I can tuck my long sleeve shirt into them.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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InvisibleLayinUp
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: total]
    #14611746 - 06/14/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

this thread has a lot of good info, props to the OP


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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14611760 - 06/14/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:hmm:


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OfflineBlueflowers
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14614241 - 06/14/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ah wait so now its better to have all holes sealed? After removing the ductape from 1 hole and stuffing the whole with polyfil (without removing the lid)last night the substrate has shown major myc growth. But early pinning would really be a let down! What should i do? :superiority:


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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14614423 - 06/14/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

reapply tape.
kick back and relax.

:super:


--------------------
The observer is the observed.
-J. Krishnamurti


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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: total]
    #14614891 - 06/14/11 10:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

total said:

Thanks TL...
About time people started preaching this...
For the past few years, i have been "hand mixing" my spawn into my bulk subs evenly...
No more layering...
I found that i got better/faster colonization by even mixing...
Layering and putting a coir layer ontop w/o grains mixed in it, is a bad idea :super:





That's what I do.  :yesnod:


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14614925 - 06/14/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Blueflowers said:
Ah wait so now its better to have all holes sealed? After removing the ductape from 1 hole and stuffing the whole with polyfil (without removing the lid)last night the substrate has shown major myc growth. But early pinning would really be a let down! What should i do? :superiority:




It depends on your lids. If you have lids that are 100% air tight, do Polyfil or EZ-felt or SFDs over the holes for GE.

If your lids aren't air tight, then just use the lid for GE.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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OfflineBlueflowers
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14615032 - 06/14/11 11:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Mmm they are pretty tight fitting lids ,i wouldn't say anything near loose but im not 100 percent on them being completely air tight . i might keep the polyfil in place due to seeing the myc do so well with it. or maybe even tape up half of the hole so to have minimal co2 escape.

Btw layering your spawn :confused: why would anyone do that? Mixing it up makes extremely fast colonization of the sub thus less chance of getting a contam.


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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14616712 - 06/15/11 10:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Blueflowers said:
Btw layering your spawn :confused: why would anyone do that? Mixing it up makes extremely fast colonization of the sub thus less chance of getting a contam.




There are many trusted cultivators, (including RogerRabbit, if my memory serves) that recommend that you do not allow grain to be exposed on the upper layer of a bulk.  I've tried layering, layering with "frosting," mixing, and mixing with "frosting."  All have worked, but I just mix well now.

EDIT: Typed 'misting' instead of mixing... wow.


Edited by Sillicybin (06/17/11 07:09 AM)


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OfflineBlueflowers
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14624240 - 06/16/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Fair enough i guess its a better step to ensure no contams , although one could just mix the spawn with the sub and have a thin layer of extra coir to cover the exposed grain.


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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14624923 - 06/16/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I layer.....i am 100% sure that every grain is touching another....
the 1/2inch bulk between the layers and on top to cover the exposed...
if you use poo.....fast colonization is not a issue.....my myc eats a bulk sub in about 5 days....allways into fruiting by 10-11 days...pick'n by day 17-18 at most... now you can choke off the tub..with stale air ....if you saw better growth with poly...use the poly....the myc makes co2 all the time.....the levels will go back up
daily ....outside the conditions are what they are....pack them holes tight as you can do not open the lid for 5 - 6 days.....then burp it
i just lift the lid...done.  not try'n to give advice...just how i do it:bongload::coffee:  you will find a happy zone that works for you

  these were made 6/2 - 6/4 they are fruiting NOW


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OfflineBlueflowers
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: penhed]
    #14625479 - 06/16/11 10:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Kept the polyfil in still lotsa condensation in the tub . Tomorrow will be exactly 1 week since spawn was administered to bulk sub, myc is really starting to shoot off now ill keep you all updated :typing:


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: GE during monotub colonization? All advice welcome! [Re: Blueflowers]
    #14625559 - 06/16/11 10:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There's always lots of condensation in colonizing bulk tubs.



That's after 4 days of colonization.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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