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OfflineNoitartst
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Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase
    #14606948 - 06/13/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I tried taking 40-50mgs of freebased DMT orelly after having taken around 360mgs of semi-pure harmine over an hour before, but it seems the harmine was too crude, and barely tripped.  I know fumarate's better to take orally than freebase for DMT, but that's not the problem, at least not the prime one.

The DMT was slightyly yellow to off white, and slightly burned my tongue tip and lips.  I took it with a touch of lemon juice to potentiate, but was shocked by how upsetting to my stomach it was.  The literature warned about tannin nausea, and I't resolved that, and I was prepared for rue nausea with my other extract, thouh there was none of the to speak of, but lye issues had never really been discussed.  I figured that yellowish- white DMT was safe to swaller, but it's apparently not.

Any thoughts or experience on the topic?


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14607200 - 06/13/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

40-50mg of DMT freebase isn't anywhere near enough for an oral dose, I would be surprised if you feel anything from that. Next time try around 150mg.


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Offlineorison
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: muistrue]
    #14607235 - 06/13/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Lye has been neutralized..

there is Lye in pretzels too..


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OfflineDimensionWithin
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: orison]
    #14607513 - 06/13/11 05:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

DMT does burn your mouth, especially when very pure like you had. It doesn't have any lye in it unless you put it in there.


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: DimensionWithin]
    #14612168 - 06/14/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Purified DMT burns the mouth? Just like Harmine?  Knew that not, but what of the upset stomach?  Does pure DMT do that, too?


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14612660 - 06/14/11 02:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thoughts??? Yes.  You went about it all wrong.  As already has been pointed out, your oral DMT dosage was too low - you need a MINIMUM of 80mg orally.  Also, there's a reason DMT freebase burns the tongue...its freeBASE. Duh.

Next time suspend your DMT in water, not lemon juice.  This is NOT mushrooms you're dealing with here, its DMT freebase, there's no "potentiating" of DMT with lemon tek.  In fact, it no doubt hurt rather than enhanced things.  (Jeez...where do people GET these ideas????)  :facepalm:  Of all the things you did, this was the worst!!!

If you are going to routinely ingest DMT, convert it into the fumarate salt.  Its stupid-easy and incredibly cheap.  Way easier on the stomach, much better absorption, and superb preservation of stored DMT.  Look for my freebase --->  fumarate tek...its here on the Shroomery somewhere.

N.B.


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Edited by Nature Boy (06/14/11 03:02 PM)


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Nature Boy]
    #14623543 - 06/16/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Thoughts??? Yes.  You went about it all wrong.  As already has been pointed out, your oral DMT dosage was too low - you need a MINIMUM of 80mg orally.  Also, there's a reason DMT freebase burns the tongue...its freeBASE. Duh.
N.B.




Well, sometimes it takes a while with the obvious to become apparent.  Given a personal encounter, I now truly see why it's called "freebase."  Names don't always reflect meaning, but now I clearly see that in this case it does.  Base ain't fun ingesting, and I see that now. 

Lesson learned.

Incidentally...they say it takes ten grams of powered MHRB for a strong dose of potency, but if DMT's 0.5% of the bark weight, that would mean that you're chugging a whole bunch of tannins and stff for 50 mgs, but it's still more potent than DMT in a purified form?

Something curious is going on, here.  It may not be orally active alone, but it sounds like something in the bark's still making the DMT more potent than just by its lonesome.

Fair assessment?


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14623569 - 06/16/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Noitartst said:
Incidentally...they say it takes ten grams of powered MHRB for a strong dose of potency, but if DMT's 0.5% of the bark weight, that would mean that you're chugging a whole bunch of tannins and stff for 50 mgs, but it's still more potent than DMT in a purified form?

Something curious is going on, here.  It may not be orally active alone, but it sounds like something in the bark's still making the DMT more potent than just by its lonesome.

Fair assessment?




DMT is not in it's freebase form in the bark it's still in it's salt form.


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: muistrue]
    #14623591 - 06/16/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That makes sense; all the more reason to saltify, then, but even so, if fifty mgs of DMT salt is considered a strong dose in ayahuasca, that still does not explain why it's an amount on the weak side on its lonesome, does it?  It seems a partial answer, but not the whole.


Edited by Noitartst (06/16/11 04:07 PM)


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14623607 - 06/16/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Noitartst said:
That makes sense; all the more reason to saltify, then.




If you're taking it orally absolutely. The only reason we convert it to freebase is to smoke it.


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: muistrue]
    #14623658 - 06/16/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If freebase burns the mouth, then en how much more the shnozz?


Edited by Noitartst (06/16/11 04:17 PM)


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14623674 - 06/16/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Noitartst said:
If freebase durns the mouth, then en how much more the shnozz?




Put down the bottle and retype that.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14623700 - 06/16/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Noitartst said:
Well, sometimes it takes a while with the obvious to become apparent.  Given a personal encounter, I now truly see why it's called "freebase."  Names don't always reflect meaning, but now I clearly see that in this case it does.




Well, words used in chemistry, physics, math, botany etcetera are very, VERY specific and not randomly assigned.  I always felt that was self-evident, but I can see how you might not get that straight-off if you're not a chemist or into science.

In this instance, the term "freebase" is quite an accurate and apt description of the actual chemical property of the extracted compound, as your tongue accurately detected.

N.B.


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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


Edited by Nature Boy (06/16/11 04:21 PM)


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: muistrue]
    #14624021 - 06/16/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FractalDust said:
Quote:

Noitartst said:
If freebase durns the mouth, then en how much more the shnozz?




Put down the bottle and retype that.




By the time you'd replied here, I'd already edited.  Were I a drunk, I doubt I'd have been able.


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14624030 - 06/16/11 05:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I still don't understand what you're asking. What's shnozz?


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Nature Boy]
    #14624067 - 06/16/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Quote:

Noitartst said:
Well, sometimes it takes a while with the obvious to become apparent.  Given a personal encounter, I now truly see why it's called "freebase."  Names don't always reflect meaning, but now I clearly see that in this case it does.




Well, words used in chemistry, physics, math, botany etcetera are very, VERY specific and not randomly assigned.  I always felt that was self-evident, but I can see how you might not get that straight-off if you're not a chemist or into science.

In this instance, the term "freebase" is quite an accurate and apt description of the actual chemical property of the extracted compound, as your tongue accurately detected.

N.B.




My tongue's pretty sharp, but it needs instruction, often through experience, which befits someone who could talk at sixteen months, but got sent to a therapist because no one understood. 

Learning, ever learning, and not the appearance (AKA Sarah Palin's glasses) is the key point, and thanks for furthering mine.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14626707 - 06/17/11 05:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Noitartst said:
My tongue's pretty sharp, but it needs instruction, often through experience, which befits someone who could talk at sixteen months, but got sent to a therapist because no one understood. 

Learning, ever learning, and not the appearance (AKA Sarah Palin's glasses) is the key point, and thanks for furthering mine.




No sweat!  We're all on the same path.  A day in which I learn something I consider to be a good day.

Best,
N.B.


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: muistrue]
    #14626871 - 06/17/11 07:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

by shnozz i think he was asking ' does it hurt your nose also to snort dmt freebase? '

i never have, and i don't really know, but i'm going to go ahead and say yes, it will.


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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Noitartst]
    #14627431 - 06/17/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Next time suspend your DMT in water, not lemon juice.  This is NOT mushrooms you're dealing with here, its DMT freebase, there's no "potentiating" of DMT with lemon tek.  In fact, it no doubt hurt rather than enhanced things.  (Jeez...where do people GET these ideas????)  :facepalm:  Of all the things you did, this was the worst!!!




What's wrong with the lemon juice, nb? I would think it would help neutralize the base, wouldn't it? Is there such a thing as DMT citrate?

Quote:

Noitartst said:
That makes sense; all the more reason to saltify, then, but even so, if fifty mgs of DMT salt is considered a strong dose in ayahuasca, that still does not explain why it's an amount on the weak side on its lonesome, does it?  It seems a partial answer, but not the whole.




Pharmahuasca dosages vary IMMENSELY person to person. No one is quite sure why.... Some people get unbelievable effects from 30mg of fumarate salt, while others cannot get noticeable effects from up to 100mg salt or freebase.

It's a mystery :shrug:


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #14628127 - 06/17/11 01:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I' just hafta try fumarate, then.  In ayahuasca, the DMT seemed more active, and I don't wanna waste nothin'.  I already lost essentially a pound's worth of harmala water from a bowl  that broke under mirrowave stress, and want nary a repeat.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #14628914 - 06/17/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ReoSpeedwagon153 said:
What's wrong with the lemon juice, nb? I would think it would help neutralize the base, wouldn't it? Is there such a thing as DMT citrate?




Citric acid is wonderful to de-phosphoralize 4-PO-DMT (psilocybin) into the active ingredient in magic mushrooms, psilocin 4-HO-DMT.  As you are likely aware, psilocybin is considered a prodrug...it has NO hallucinogenic effect until dephosphoralized into psilocin by your LIVER.  That's why it takes 30 min to 1 hour for mushrooms to kick in.  The psilocybin molecule must first pass through the liver and be dephosphoralized.

Citric acid (Lemon juice) does this for you exogenously (outside the body) and why it is a powerful way to accelerate and potentiate a MUSHROOM experience.

DMT freebase (n,n-DMT) although a very closely related molecule, DOES NOT benefit from treatment with citric acid.  It is a virtual certainty that when combined with citric acid, n,n-DMT is either converted into an inactive molecule OR into a salt which is difficult, if not impossible to absorb through the gastrointestinal tract, so DON'T do it!!!

If you are ingesting freebase (acceptable, but not the best option) simply DILUTE IT in a small amount of (preferably) distilled water.  It will still taste horrid, but the base will be less caustic feeling in the mouth.  DMT fumarate is the best option for oral administration.  Remember - dilution is the solution to pollution.  So just add water and go.  :lol:

N.B.


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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Nature Boy]
    #14629115 - 06/17/11 04:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm no chemist, but every pharmahuasca report I've seen people say they put the freebase into some citric acid (OJ, lemon juice, etc.) to help it get digested easier. That's just what I've read but I've seen it very often.


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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: mrroboto187] * 1
    #14629294 - 06/17/11 05:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mrroboto187 said:
I'm no chemist, but every pharmahuasca report I've seen people say they put the freebase into some citric acid (OJ, lemon juice, etc.) to help it get digested easier. That's just what I've read but I've seen it very often.




My understanding is the DMT freebase turns to DMT citrate when soaked in lemon/lime juice (anything with citric acid).  DMT freebase is not very water soluble and DMT citrate is much easier to absorb into the body.  Although DMT freebase will turn into a salt in the stomach it can take some time and often leaves me feeling a little nauseous.  Converting to a salt helps me with nausea and the trips seem to be more consistent. 
So, there is some validity to soaking DMT in lemon/lime juice for 30 or so minutes before ingesting.


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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: cogent]
    #14629295 - 06/17/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

And as others have stated, you probably need a larger dose!


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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Nature Boy]
    #14630651 - 06/17/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
[DMT is either converted into an inactive molecule OR into a salt which is difficult, if not impossible to absorb through the gastrointestinal tract, so DON'T do it!!!

  DMT fumarate is the best option for oral administration.  Remember - dilution is the solution to pollution.  So just add water and go.  :lol:

N.B.




Im a little confused as to your post.  You say that DMT when mixed with citric acid can turn into a salt form of DMT which is "difficult, if not impossible to absorb...." but then you recommend DMT fumarate for oral admin which is also a salt.  Im just looking for some clarification.


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Nature Boy]
    #14633602 - 06/18/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
DMT freebase (n,n-DMT) although a very closely related molecule, DOES NOT benefit from treatment with citric acid.  It is a virtual certainty that when combined with citric acid, n,n-DMT is either converted into an inactive molecule OR into a salt which is difficult, if not impossible to absorb through the gastrointestinal tract, so DON'T do it!!!




I have never encountered this information before. Interesting...

Is this from your own experience, or is this well known over at the nexus or something?


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OfflineYippie
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: muistrue]
    #14633731 - 06/18/11 01:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FractalDust said:
40-50mg of DMT freebase isn't anywhere near enough for an oral dose, I would be surprised if you feel anything from that. Next time try around 150mg.




Nonsense - with a proper MAOI dosage, 45-60mg was enough for a full on 3-4hr experience with another 2hr cool down on many occasions. His problem was almost assuredly a failure of MAOI inhibition, not DMT dosage - 150mg with full MAOI could really do some damage :wink:


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OfflineNoitartst
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Re: Trouble Ingesting DMT Lye-Laced DMT Freebase [Re: Yippie]
    #14634100 - 06/18/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm inclined to believe yas, Yippie.  WHen I started taking DMT, it wasas ayahuasca, with basically three grams rue, and 10 of mimosa, and the interesting thing is, I'd start to feel buzzing within twenty miutes, but I couldn't hold it down long enough for it to take hold.  I've since pursued ways to keep it down, and have with success, but the potency has diminished.

I had a weak level 2 trip last night with lovely visuals on 100mgs of DMT freebase and 400mgs of orangish, semi-pure harmine, but I think it ought to have been stronger, and by that, I mean head buzzing.

Dunno what I can do different, save for soaking the DMT in citrate.  If that's all it takes to turn it into a salt, that's good, because DMT salt seems to be quite potent with me, if my ayahuasca attempts are any indication.


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