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OfflineMilkycereal
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vipassana meditation
    #14605623 - 06/13/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't get it, I concentrate on breathing. A thought of emotion pops up, and I reconize it then go back to concentrating on breathing?

Isn't that repression?

Or when I get to a certain state of concentration and single mindedness, THEN when a thought pops up I can observe it and play with it a bit, right?

I read mindfullness in plain English, but I don't understand how you up-root a problem when your not confronting them.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14606463 - 06/13/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's magic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMilkycereal
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14606887 - 06/13/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

say thanks guy

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OfflineSatyapriya
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14606914 - 06/13/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Milkycereal said:
I don't get it, I concentrate on breathing. A thought of emotion pops up, and I reconize it then go back to concentrating on breathing?

Isn't that repression?

Or when I get to a certain state of concentration and single mindedness, THEN when a thought pops up I can observe it and play with it a bit, right?

I read mindfullness in plain English, but I don't understand how you up-root a problem when your not confronting them.




Its a little bit difficult to explain, and there are different ways to go about the practice.  But most of the old students that go to Vipassana retreats regularly are seeking enlightenment and making sure they are progressing along the path.  For them, the goal is to not give ANY attention whatsoever to thoughts or emotions, only to breath and bodily sensations.  The point is to reprogram the habit patterns of the mind at the deepest level, which you can get closer to by meditating for long periods of time.  BY doing this you can make it so that you do not "react" when something bad, or even when something good happens.  You are training yourself to become more equanimous.

For me, its a little bit different.  I have done 2 ten day retreats and recently one 3 day retreat here in California, but I don't go because I am seeking enlightenment.  I go because I wish to strengthen and reprogram my mind, to learn to better handle stress and the chronic pain that I suffer from, to get some peace of mind, to better understand myself, and to reconnect with my life goals and values.

I disagree with a few of the ideas they focus on, such as eliminating passion.  They teach that you must eliminate all craving, for material possessions, for wealth and power, for love and respect, sexual desire, even general lust for life, in order to reach enlightenment and completely remove suffering.  The idea is something like, if you have no expectations, no cravings, you will never be disappointed and become unhappy.  I TOTALLY disagree with this and while that MAY be the path to enlightenment, that is definitely not the path for me.  I love life too much and it is my love for different aspects of life that kept me from ending my life prematurely during my hardest times.

So yeah, I still go however, but I take from it what I choose.  From a spiritual perspective I would have to say that it definitely strengthens the soul and helps you to be yourself at your true nature, more often.  If you have any other questions I would be happy to answer them for you.  Peace :peace:

To answer your second question, yes, when I reach a heightened state of awareness, which can happen within the first or second day depending on how hard I work, my thoughts become more clear and I can focus more intently if I choose, and usually do.  The more peaceful my mind becomes, the more deep and beautiful my thoughts, or insights.  And it is important to pay attention to these insights and not ignore them, even for hardcore practitioners, as that is what Vipassana Meditation is all about.  Roughly translated it means insight meditation.

But the danger in playing with these thoughts and getting too caught up in them is attachment.  If you are enjoying them, you are attaching to them, and reattaching to your mind, your ego.  At that point you are inflating your ego and reducing the power you have over it.  It is not uncommon for first time practitioners to leave a retreat thinking they are the second coming or something destined to single-handedly save the human race.  Sadly, when they come down from that egotrip, they come down hard, and it affects their self-confidence.  Hope this helps.


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InvisibleCups
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14606928 - 06/13/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why don't you try it and see if it works for yourself? 

Note everything and see what happens.


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What's up everybody?!

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14606996 - 06/13/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Milkycereal said:
I don't get it, I concentrate on breathing. A thought of emotion pops up, and I reconize it then go back to concentrating on breathing?

Isn't that repression?




No, acknowledging in your mind, or making a mental note that the emotion has arisen, is recognition, not repression.  Repression is when you make no effort to recognize and let slide.

Quote:

Or when I get to a certain state of concentration and single mindedness, THEN when a thought pops up I can observe it and play with it a bit, right?




Don't play with it, observe the thought come into your mind, acknowledge it, and return back to the silence.  Or in your case the breath.

Quote:

I read mindfullness in plain English, but I don't understand how you up-root a problem when your not confronting them.




Nothing should be expected in meditation.  It may take months, years of daily practice to understand how the uprooting process takes place.  The more you practice, the more you recognize your mental and bodily processes and how you are affected by them.  These are the confrontations, and the realizations that contribute to the uprooting.

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Satyapriya]
    #14607006 - 06/13/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shrooomtastic said:
For them, the goal is to not give ANY attention whatsoever to thoughts or emotions, only to breath and bodily sensations.




That's not what I was taught during my 10 days.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: deranger]
    #14607115 - 06/13/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you were taught by the wrong guys.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleCups
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Icelander]
    #14607141 - 06/13/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What he said matches up with what I know of insight meditation. :shrug:

Somehow noting all these things causes all your junk to come to the surface.  Works IME.


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What's up everybody?!

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: deranger]
    #14607151 - 06/13/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Milkycereal, Vipassana, more so than other forms of meditation is about examination of life and ones place in it. It's basically the same thing a Westerner might call 'contemplating life'. However, the difference is that an Eastern student goes through other, non-thought centric forms of meditation in order to refine and resolve the emotional turbulence that colors a person's contemplations, and there are defined stepping stones considered by tradition to be crucial to finding success in any given system, so to call it 'contemplation' could easily be considered to general and vague.

Still, it seems to me, an outline of natural phenomena. Thus you will to some degree follow the various forms of meditation until you reach whatever your most unclouded thought states will be (vipassana). Trying to practice vipassana only to discover repression in the mind, is how it happens. You see the repression your mind is creating, and you're making progress!

Consider that many don't meditate in any structured sense because it's not much fun. Allowing repressive though patterns to remain in the sub-conscious can be a valid life strategy, depending on what the goals are.

It's also worth considering that much Eastern practice is in fact geared towards repression. When a person is secluding themselves, practicing celibacy, and denying themselves worldly pleasures, that's pretty repressive. It seems that for some there is a pay off down the road. Which flavor is your favorite? How do the flavors you haven't tasted taste?

If you research the word jhana, you might find some insight on why those monks are repressing the mundane, and why they -can't- just use the right technique like a recipe, and bake up some non-cloudy vipassana.

Finally, people's minds are different in many ways, including chemical balances and genetic expression. What is right for one, may not be right for another. Fuck Vipassana?:shrug:


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi

Edited by Rahz (06/13/11 04:10 PM)

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Icelander]
    #14607226 - 06/13/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Maybe you were taught by the wrong guys.




:docbrown:

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OfflineSatyapriya
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: deranger]
    #14607246 - 06/13/11 04:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Shrooomtastic said:
For them, the goal is to not give ANY attention whatsoever to thoughts or emotions, only to breath and bodily sensations.




That's not what I was taught during my 10 days.




well I guess what I mean is not "prolonged attention."  You observe the thoughts or emotiosn and let them pass, like passing clouds in a clear sky.


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www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. ॐ Collectively Conscious ॐ is a community-powered, community-verified, alternative news/multimedia aggregation service for global citizens.

Edited by Satyapriya (06/13/11 04:27 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Cups]
    #14607258 - 06/13/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
What he said matches up with what I know of insight meditation. :shrug:

Somehow noting all these things causes all your junk to come to the surface.  Works IME.





My junk is below my belt.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14607273 - 06/13/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

deranger seems to have what I consider the right attitude.

in the big scheme of things, vipassana is all about cultivating attitude - it is a small fractal of the big picture.

sitting is practice, or cultivation, even if you are lying down. (you can find apparent trivial contradictions in anything)

following the breath is an excellent simple non-static thing that can be very difficult to just be aware of. when I say that I do not mean be aware of it at the exclusion of the rest of your mental (and physical) landscape, but as a focus of your totality.

acknowledging the distractions is not other than a practice of compassion and beginning again to do this work.

to an extent there is convergence of mental effort, until concentration is sustained. relaxation is essential and is blended into the effort at the ground floor.

I must say that this is not for everybody though at the same time I am certain it would benefit everyone. One must begin with interest in it or it will not be interesting.

it really does get more interesting though that involves embracing contradiction or superimposition or coexistence...and relaxing.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14607334 - 06/13/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I must say that this is not for everybody though at the same time I am certain it would benefit everyone.

RGVs ftw.:lol:

I like balloon standing Qi Gong.  It's very difficult to relax while you do it but that is the goal. The benefit is a more relaxed state when you are not doing it.  IMO it's very good for nervous systems that are fried. 

Now... back on topic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Icelander]
    #14607385 - 06/13/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I am now able to lift two balloons!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14607394 - 06/13/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Helium balloons?:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: Icelander]
    #14607664 - 06/13/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I like balloon standing Qi Gong.  It's very difficult to relax while you do it but that is the goal. The benefit is a more relaxed state when you are not doing it.  IMO it's very good for nervous systems that are fried.




Then it would probably benefit me :lol: Got any good links on balloon standing Qi Gong?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: deranger]
    #14607721 - 06/13/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've been doing it for 23 minutes per day for almost two years now and it's been more beneficial than any other discipline I've tried in 40 years.

I'll PM you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineSatyapriya
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Re: vipassana meditation [Re: deranger]
    #14607855 - 06/13/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

As far as the repression goes, yeah, Vipassana definitely helps bring all that shit to the surface.  One strange example with me is with my visual field in my mind.  It used to be very strong when I was a child, like I could think up something and see it visually when my eyes are closed.  But my problem with that is I also had OCD really bad, associated with my Tourette's, and it was very easy to twist the image into something horrifying or disgusting, such as seeing skulls instead of people's faces, or imagining disgusting sexual scenarios involving friends and family... *cringes at the thought*... basically whatever I wouldn't want to see the most, my mind, out of compulsion, would create it.  Common OCD behavior.

I realized during Vipassana that I subconsciously suppress my visual field in order to avoid this problem, and the associated discomfort that goes with it.  I realized this because on the third day it came back, and in full technicolor!  It was quite beautiful too.  I remember seeing one awesome abstract landscape of the Himalayas and rolling mountains in Nepal, but then the sky behind it was a lake instead of the sky, and there were several drop points with ripples coming off.  It was quite intriguing, like an optical illusion of sorts.

But yes, its not repression if you are consciously observing its presence, and then letting it go and not get to you.  If you completely ignore the thoughts and emotions and pretend they aren't there then yes, you are repressing them.


--------------------
www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. ॐ Collectively Conscious ॐ is a community-powered, community-verified, alternative news/multimedia aggregation service for global citizens.

Edited by Satyapriya (06/14/11 01:11 AM)

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