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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14604027 - 06/13/11 01:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue





I think you mean to say, "a little bullshit, it may be true in the majority of cases but in some cases its untrue"




I said what I meant to say



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you made $2 by loaning money to someone, that is money that you did NOT pay taxes on yet (you only paid taxes on the first $5).  You would only be taxed on the $2 gain, not the full $7.





you've obviously not dealt with the IRS directly, somehow they seem to have
it in their heads that any money you make from the sale of stock, real estate
or what ever is profit and that profit includes the initial investment, not
just any gains. I'm having to refile 10 years of taxes because they believe I
owe them $300k in profits from stock sales





BULLSHIT.




I can always see if the IRS will allow me to have a copy of the the
recording since I didnt object to being recorded, I had to explain capital
gains/loss and profit to the woman, it apparently confused he enough she
had to get her supervisor

"well you sold the stock didnt you, well that's profit"

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14604042 - 06/13/11 01:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Is it not obvious that if you do not pay for something that the rightful owner will take it back? It says that very clearly in every home mortgage.
The proper role of government is not decided by voters. People voted for Hitler and they agreed with him and his views, did this make it correct no. People also voted to put Socrates to death for not agreeing with them about the gods above and for corrupting youth by teaching them to think for themselves and to question things. Once again they made a morally and ethically wrong choice, mob rule does not constitute a proper government.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604054 - 06/13/11 01:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:


In order to have a free society you must have defnse to protect you from looters, and you must have police to aprehend criminals whom violate your rights and or property. When someone steals from you, they are not stealing just an item, they are stealing time from your life. No one has a right to make a claim on your life or personal property. When someone assaults you they are violating your right as a human being to exist free of bodily harm. Without police and national defense you are left with mob rule and vigilante justice, neither of which have any place in a free society. What exactly makes police and military "socialist"?




Why is it the government's job to protect anyone? From what? Each other? Themselves? Bees? Where does it end?

Quote:

Yes I do, as a human you have the right to live your life as you see fit, as long as you do not violate the rights of others, for your own wants, needs, and desires. One group of people being held responsible for a larger portion of the tax burden than another group is theft. No one has a right to the life of another. You are promoting slavery by means of taxation when you force another human to give up the monetary compensation he has earned for the benefit of others without his consent. What do you not understand about this?





A government is just a club. If you don't want to pay the dues, you can always just quit and get out of the clubhouse.

Taxes = Theft is a juvenile argument. You act like you just read a flyer on LOLbetarianism and got all excited.

Are you sure you're old enough to be here?

Quote:


Did you take an EIC this year? What about buying a home and getting $5000-$8000 tax "credit"? Did you get a check back from the government when you filed this year? What about getting a tax "credit" for children? If any of these apply you more than likely have a negative tax rate for the year.




None of your fucking business. :smile2:

I paid in several times what I got back.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14604055 - 06/13/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue




Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
I think you mean to say, "a little bullshit, it may be true in the majority of cases but in some cases its untrue"




Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I said what I meant to say




so reply to my reply to u.


--------------------
:willynilly:

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
    #14604057 - 06/13/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Capitalism a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.

So what is wrong with the model of capitalism?

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604064 - 06/13/11 01:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Which model of Capitalism?

Adam Smith's?


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
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<) )>    SOLDIERS
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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604068 - 06/13/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Is it not obvious that if you do not pay for something that the rightful owner will take it back? It says that very clearly in every home mortgage.
The proper role of government is not decided by voters. People voted for Hitler and they agreed with him and his views, did this make it correct no. People also voted to put Socrates to death for not agreeing with them about the gods above and for corrupting youth by teaching them to think for themselves and to question things. Once again they made a morally and ethically wrong choice, mob rule does not constitute a proper government.




So you're saying a representative democracy does not constitute a proper governement?  Are you back on the bottle bro?  Sounds like you want a country that:
1) isn't a democracy
2) has no government
3) allows you to do whatever you want to make a dollar

There are plenty of countries in Africa or the middle east that sound perfect for you.

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604069 - 06/13/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i believe i made my stance on capitalism very clear in my earlier post.


--------------------
:willynilly:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14604072 - 06/13/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Even still, neither of you are even touching the tip of the iceberg about the wealth.  There are 412 billionaires in the United States.  Lets start there... 1% of their wealth is not even equal to your parents, 1%. 







I see, so this boils down to jealousy on your part, you arent wealthy so no
one else should have that money. who cares what someone else has, if I have
$10 then I have $10 if my neighbor has $1mil then good for him

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
you've obviously not dealt with the IRS directly, somehow they seem to have it in their heads that any money you make from the sale of stock, real estate or what ever is profit and that profit includes the initial investment, not just any gains. I'm having to refile 10 years of taxes because they believe I owe them $300k in profits from stock sales



That is incorrect.  Taxable income does NOT include the basis, which is your initial investment.  One of two things is happening here.  Either your "initial investment" was income that you haven't yet paid taxes on (maybe stock options, for example), or you're getting screwed by your lack of tax knowledge.




I'm obviously not getting screwed because my accountant say my tax
liability is under $25k, I know the difference between profit and capital,
the IRS doesnt acknowledge that while I did have capital gains the bulk of
my money was reinvested in places other than stocks and even with stop
trades all they looked at were the sales, not the reinvestment and other
purchases, both of your hypotheses are incorrect

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14604076 - 06/13/11 01:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How does this not make sense, if I came to you and asked you to explain how to grow a mushroom indoors from start to finish without using the words mycelium, mutlispore, substrate, colonization, hypheal knot, primordia, or fruiting chamber, how would you do that? It would be very hard, I came to you for this advice so should you not be able to use the proper terms as you know them for doing so?

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14604085 - 06/13/11 01:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Even still, neither of you are even touching the tip of the iceberg about the wealth.  There are 412 billionaires in the United States.  Lets start there... 1% of their wealth is not even equal to your parents, 1%. 







I see, so this boils down to jealousy on your part, you arent wealthy so no
one else should have that money. who cares what someone else has, if I have
$10 then I have $10 if my neighbor has $1mil then good for him







You're confusing jealousy with reality.  What's someone going to do with 10 billion dollars, or even 500 million dollars, or even 100 million dollars?  100 million dollars would be enough to last your family 100 years without a single decedent ever having to lift a finger.  some life.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604095 - 06/13/11 01:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Capitalism a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.

So what is wrong with the model of capitalism?





There is nothing wrong with the MODEL of capitalism. There is plenty wrong when purely capitalistic theory moves out of a book and into a real economy.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14604097 - 06/13/11 01:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If I am not mistaken I said taxes are necessary for a free society, like you said if you want in the club you have to pay. I also stated that it is theft when you make one person pay more than the other for the same goods based solely upon how much they have. If you do not understand the difference between a capitalist and a libertarian you should read up on it.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604102 - 06/13/11 01:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What is unethical about you going to a store and buying a product? That is how rich people get rich, selling you something you want. Is it unethical to offer you a product that you can or cannot buy of your own volition?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
    #14604104 - 06/13/11 01:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue





what is bullshit?

1% of the world population controls 99% of the world wealth and i consider having interest rates increase on your mortgage by 2X unethical, even if payments are missed.




I see, so it's all about what you consider, did you consider that no one
had to sign a contract that they felt would screw them, by signing they
agreed to the terms. it's their choice and they screw themselves

if I buy a property I have the choice of going through a mortgate lender
that can hit me with a variable rate or a fixed rate mortgage, I'd choose
the fixed rate, I also have the choice of using my bank for the loan and
getting a fixed rate, if someoen else believes they need to own that home
so badly that they'll sign the contracts without understanding the terms
then they have done to themselves what's being done, where's the unethical
part on the side of the lender, their goal is to make money, it's your
obligation to understand what you're signing

it doesnt matter who has the bulk of the wealth, your money should matter
to you so it's your responsibility to handle it wisely

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604107 - 06/13/11 01:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
If I am not mistaken I said taxes are necessary for a free society, like you said if you want in the club you have to pay. I also stated that it is theft when you make one person pay more than the other for the same goods based solely upon how much they have. If you do not understand the difference between a capitalist and a libertarian you should read up on it.





Dude use the quote function, nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about when the post you're referring to is five posts up.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14604114 - 06/13/11 01:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue





what is bullshit?

1% of the world population controls 99% of the world wealth and i consider having interest rates increase on your mortgage by 2X unethical, even if payments are missed.




I see, so it's all about what you consider, did you consider that no one had to sign a contract that they felt would screw them, by signing they agreed to the terms. it's their choice and they screw themselves

if I buy a property I have the choice of going through a mortgate lender
that can hit me with a variable rate or a fixed rate mortgage, I'd choose
the fixed rate, I also have the choice of using my bank for the loan and
getting a fixed rate, if someoen else believes they need to own that home
so badly that they'll sign the contracts without understanding the terms
then they have done to themselves what's being done, where's the unethical
part on the side of the lender, their goal is to make money, it's your
obligation to understand what you're signing




Except many of the times, like somebody else stated, you can read a contract three times over and still not understand all the shit thats in it.  Why should you need to hire somebody else and pay more money to understand an overcomplicated contract that is meant to fuck you over if you make a mistake ?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14604117 - 06/13/11 01:38 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
if they paid you and everyone else what hey thought they were worth they would be broke and none of you would have made anything.



You don't get the concept of "what you're worth".  If I'm on a team of 20 at McDonald's, and we sell $2,000 worth of food an hour (which I used to do when I worked at my first job at McDonalds), what am I "worth"?  I realize that the business owners get to make a nice profit.  But we were making an average of $3.50/hr (the minimum wage at the time was $3.35), which cost McDonald's about $70/hr.  We worked our asses off to sell that much food, it was one of the hardest jobs I ever had.  If you think we were only worth $3.50/hr, then you're a conservative.  McDonalds could have easily paid us $10/hr, and still made a huge profit.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
So are you going to answer my question about what the proper role of government is?



I already did.  It was my first statement in this post.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/13/11 01:46 AM)

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14604121 - 06/13/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the banks fooled stupid ppl into signing up for a mortgage that they could not afford. don't u think it's unethical to fool ppl out of their money?


--------------------
:willynilly:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14604125 - 06/13/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
You're confusing jealousy with reality.  What's someone going to do with 10 billion dollars, or even 500 million dollars, or even 100 million dollars?  100 million dollars would be enough to last your family 100 years without a single decedent ever having to lift a finger.  some life.




no... the reality is that their money is not my money, what do I care if
their great grandchildren will never have to work.

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