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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14601031 - 06/12/11 01:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Yay!  Private schools that only the rich can afford to send their kids to (private schools already exist, by the way).  Roads that only the rich can drive on.  And a private FDA organization that would make money by accepting bribes from rich corporations (since Government is no longer there to stop this).

That's my kind of country!  I'm voting Tea Party!!!




Wow, I am not sure where to begin, I am surprised by the lack of thought that goes into some of these responses. Yes I know private schools exist, I also know that the FDA has a very poor track record. ...the government does not stop anyone from ripping people off, they prosecute after the fact and collect money form fines that do not help those who are affected. Look at the Purdue Pharma case, they fined them hundreds of millions for improper marketing ads for Oxycontin but gave not a dime to people affected by it. They allow Purdue to continue making, and selling Oxycontin. because they paid the fine. Way to save people from the big bad corporations!



PileusSonofGalt, if the Government makes burglary illegal, do you think that will stop burglary from happening?  You really should put some thought into your posts before you claim others are lacking thought.  :shake:

A $600 million fine will make the next corporation think twice before misleading and defrauding physicians and consumers.  And at least they paid for their crime.




You imply that the FDA prevents bad things from happening because they do it for safety, not money. Hence my statement about Purdue, the "fine" was nothing more than an extorted bribe that they took with the power of a gun. They did not pay for there crime, they paid for the right to continue selling the product. Anyone who uses there mind would know that you cannot have a high powered opiate that is not very addictive. Did Purdue fleece consumers? Probably so, but it should not be the FDA stopping this, it should be the consumer. No one is forced to walk into a pharmacy and buy the pills, the do it of their own  free volition. If they stop buying, Purdue stops selling, someone else comes in and sells a better product. That is how it should happen.

As far as the burglary comment, no it would not stop it, but burglary is a crime perpetrated against another for ones own personal gain at the expense of another who did not make a choice to be robbed. People going to the doctor and then going to the pharmacy do make a choice to take it, all by themselves. What Purdue did is not a crime, just poor business practice.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14601147 - 06/12/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Really? Taxes are not theft because you could live somewhere else? We do need taxation, to pay for defense and policeman, but that is all. No one should have to pay more or less than anyone else as far as percentage goes. Do you have a negative income tax rate? I bet you do.

If you however renounced your citizenship, you could avoid paying federal income tax because we do not tax (federal income) residents whom are only residents of the U.S.

Edited by PileusSonofGalt (06/12/11 02:17 PM)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14601274 - 06/12/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Really? Taxes are not theft because you could live somewhere else?




Yes, really.

Quote:

We do need taxation, to pay for defense and policeman, but that is all.




Why do we "need" that  Why can't people just provide their own protection? Why do we need a socialist police and military system?

Quote:

No one should have to pay more or less than anyone else as far as percentage goes.




Do you have proof of this claim?

Quote:

Do you have a negative income tax rate? I bet you do.




You would lose that bet.


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14601536 - 06/12/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The more my brother in law made the less he worked. He owned a business and worked like a mad man to get it going. When it became successful he left most of the work to his crews.  He spent an hour a day or so with clients working out details and setting up appointments. Then he played golf and took naps.  Course he wasn't filthy rich but he made hundreds of grand per year.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Icelander]
    #14601598 - 06/12/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Like you said, he worked like mad.  Then he reaped the reward.  Sounds completely consistent with what I said.  (also sounds like he is more of an owner than a CEO, if a CEO worked an hour a day he would be fired.  Owners dont have to work, they hire other people to do that for them (like CEOs))

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14601636 - 06/12/11 03:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh yeah right.  He know's when to work and when to relax I'll give that old crusty ex Marine that much.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
    #14601899 - 06/12/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:

-Consumers demand the lowest price.  Period.  Given teh same quality, consumer chooses cheaper.
-Since consumer chooses cheaper, input costs are important
-US has high labor costs and benefits requirements, which would necessitate higher product cost
-Since product cost would be higher, business would lose sales
-lost sales means no jobs


So unless everything you buy comes from America, please be quiet -- because you support outsourcing of jobs too, every time you buy the cheapest thing on the shelf.  Check your labels.  Go to your pantry right now.




More people with jobs = stronger economy = more people able to buy more expensive things that were made by American workers.  You can't argue this, don't even try.

Go to my pantry right now? OK.

Spices: grown and packaged in America.  Chinese bought plastic bottle.

Meat in the freezer: locally raised and slaughtered

Frozen pizzas: Manufactured less than an hour from where I am

Peanut butter & Mac&cheese: Manufactured two hours from where I am, probably chinese bought plastic bottle.

Milk: locally raised dairy farm

Eggs: locally raised chicken farm

Cheese: locally raised dairy farm

Bread: baked locally

Tortillas: IDK

Rice: grown organically less than 6 hours from my location

Oranges: organic, american grown

Brats: produced on the other side of the state

Canned mushrooms: product of USA

Spaghetti noodles: Product of USA

Rolling rock beer: made in the USA

My weed: GROWN IN THE USA

All bought from a locally owned and ran grocery store.  Yes it cost me more, but I am doing what I think is right by helping keep AMERICANS employed.  So go fuck yourself, because once again, people are insinuating things that simply are not true. I do not for ONE SECOND support any outsourcing of American jobs, even if I were to buy a foreign product, because honestly, it can't be helped all of the time, some things just aren't made in America any more.  I buy clothes, sheets, my desk, my office chair etc SECOND HAND because 1) its cheaper 2) IT KEEPS THE MONEY IN THE UNITED STATES.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14601949 - 06/12/11 04:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

Really? Taxes are not theft because you could live somewhere else?




Yes, really.

Quote:

We do need taxation, to pay for defense and policeman, but that is all.




In order to have a free society you must have defnse to protect you from looters, and you must have police to aprehend criminals whom violate your rights and or property. When someone steals from you, they are not stealing just an item, they are stealing time from your life. No one has a right to make a claim on your life or personal property. When someone assaults you they are violating your right as a human being to exist free of bodily harm. Without police and national defense you are left with mob rule and vigilante justice, neither of which have any place in a free society. What exactly makes police and military "socialist"?

Why do we "need" that  Why can't people just provide their own protection? Why do we need a socialist police and military system?

Quote:

No one should have to pay more or less than anyone else as far as percentage goes.




Yes I do, as a human you have the right to live your life as you see fit, as long as you do not violate the rights of others, for your own wants, needs, and desires. One group of people being held responsible for a larger portion of the tax burden than another group is theft. No one has a right to the life of another. You are promoting slavery by means of taxation when you force another human to give up the monetary compensation he has earned for the benefit of others without his consent. What do you not understand about this?

Do you have proof of this claim?

Quote:

Do you have a negative income tax rate? I bet you do.




You would lose that bet.




Did you take an EIC this year? What about buying a home and getting $5000-$8000 tax "credit"? Did you get a check back from the government when you filed this year? What about getting a tax "credit" for children? If any of these apply you more than likely have a negative tax rate for the year.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14601982 - 06/12/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So go fuck yourself, because once again, people are insinuating things that simply are not true. I do not for ONE SECOND support any outsourcing of American jobs, even if I were to buy a foreign product, because honestly, it can't be helped all of the time, some things just aren't made in America any more.  I buy clothes, sheets, my desk, my office chair etc SECOND HAND because 1) its cheaper 2) IT KEEPS THE MONEY IN THE UNITED STATES.

I like your line about even if I did buy a foreign product, because that is false. You do not have to purchase anything that was made in another country, it is your personal choice. So the next time you buy an Ipod think about how much it means to you to ship those jobs oversees, as well as every time you use the internet or your computer. If it really meant so much to you to keep the money here you would not do these things, because you are supporting foreign countries when you do. Nice philosophy for life, I believe in this, but only when it suits me. LOL.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14602084 - 06/12/11 05:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:

I like your line about even if I did buy a foreign product, because that is false. You do not have to purchase anything that was made in another country, it is your personal choice. So the next time you buy an Ipod think about how much it means to you to ship those jobs oversees, as well as every time you use the internet or your computer. If it really meant so much to you to keep the money here you would not do these things, because you are supporting foreign countries when you do. Nice philosophy for life, I believe in this, but only when it suits me. LOL.




I don't own an iPod, I don't own a computer.  I own a TV (bought second hand), and I own a PS3 (bought second hand), as well as a cell phone, but they were made by FOREIGN companies, not American ones that shipped jobs overseas.  You're grasping on to strings here.  Whenever I can I buy American, and when I can't, so be it.  I am not made of money and some things I just can't change as much as I would like to.  When I do purchase foreign made goods, I don't buy them at superstores, I buy them at local home owned places if at all possible.

Of course I don't have to purchase anything made in another country, but I am not able to afford all American made goods any more, because 1) people like you who think it is all about profit have shipped jobs over seas 2) these jobs shipped overseas makes it extremely difficult for me to get a damn job to begin with (I don't know how you say that it is easy to find a job... come find one for me) 3) Anything made in America has increased in price because that is the only way they can even stay in business, they aren't bolstering profits, they are simply staying in business.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14602258 - 06/12/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

McDonald's just hired 50000+ employees, in the past month we have had three new employees hired for FOH and 2 for BOH, Luxcottica is hiring between 25-35 people for the credit department now, it is not that you cannot find a job. You just cannot find one you think is worthy of your services. So if you do not have a computer, how are you on shroomery? Your phone?  That snippet about me coming to find one for you tells a lot about you. Instead of going to get a job, you want me to find it for you. Ok tell you what, tell me the city you live in or near and by 9 a.m. I will have at least ten possible choices for you to choose from. No matter what part of the country you live in jobs are available. Even Vegas, whom has one of the highest foreclosure and unemployment rates, is hiring people all day everyday.

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14603002 - 06/12/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The rich make proportionally a lot more in gains taxes than everyone else.  It's "unearned money" (you don't have to actually work to make gains taxes), so it used to be taxed more than earned income. 



Nono.  I think its "earned money".  I earned my money, and now since I have money that people will pay me to borrow, I can make more money. 

See, I earned it.  I didnt spend it, and now I have more of it because I put it to good use. 





Say you wnat $5 to buy lunch.  I give you $5 to buy lunch.  When u give me $7 later, I have to give some of that $7 to the government.  U want it to be a bigger portion?  I dont think it should be much of a portion at all.  I paid taxes on this money when I was paid it in my paycheck, is that not enough?




/devils advocate

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
    #14603316 - 06/12/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Say you wnat $5 to buy lunch.  I give you $5 to buy lunch.  When u give me $7 later, I have to give some of that $7 to the government.  U want it to be a bigger portion?  I dont think it should be much of a portion at all.  I paid taxes on this money when I was paid it in my paycheck, is that not enough?



I know you're smarter than that meams.  I think you're just trying to trick the ignorant on this board (i.e. conservatives), hoping no one calls you out.

If you made $2 by loaning money to someone, that is money that you did NOT pay taxes on yet (you only paid taxes on the first $5).  You would only be taxed on the $2 gain, not the full $7.  And don't tell me you worked harder for that $2 than you did for the first $5 (unless the first $5 was gifted to you).  You should pay less for the $5 that you worked hard for, not more (assuming you actually worked for it).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt] * 1
    #14603335 - 06/12/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?


--------------------
:willynilly:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14603416 - 06/12/11 10:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you made $2 by loaning money to someone, that is money that you did NOT pay taxes on yet (you only paid taxes on the first $5).  You would only be taxed on the $2 gain, not the full $7.





you've obviously not dealt with the IRS directly, somehow they seem to have
it in their heads that any money you make from the sale of stock, real estate
or what ever is profit and that profit includes the initial investment, not
just any gains. I'm having to refile 10 years of taxes because they believe I
owe them $300k in profits from stock sales

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
    #14603422 - 06/12/11 10:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14603449 - 06/12/11 10:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue





I think you mean to say, "a little bullshit, it may be true in the majority of cases but in some cases its untrue"



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you made $2 by loaning money to someone, that is money that you did NOT pay taxes on yet (you only paid taxes on the first $5).  You would only be taxed on the $2 gain, not the full $7.





you've obviously not dealt with the IRS directly, somehow they seem to have
it in their heads that any money you make from the sale of stock, real estate
or what ever is profit and that profit includes the initial investment, not
just any gains. I'm having to refile 10 years of taxes because they believe I
owe them $300k in profits from stock sales





BULLSHIT.

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Offlinedynomite
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14603469 - 06/12/11 10:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue





isn't that what capitalism is all about?  buy low and sell high with as little work as possible


--------------------
"The great nations have always acted like gangsters and the small ones like prostitutes." - Stanley Kubrick

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: dynomite]
    #14603516 - 06/12/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well ShroomeyJohn, those were some compelling arguments.



NOT.

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14603536 - 06/12/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
because the rich got rich by fucking people over. they might not steal outright, by they do thru unethical business tactics. it my be legal, but it is still stealing. why should we have sympathy for people who have been keeping 99% of the population poor via unethical business tactics?




load of bullshit, may be true in some cases but in the majority of cases it untrue





what is bullshit?

1% of the world population controls 99% of the world wealth and i consider having interest rates increase on your mortgage by 2X unethical, even if payments are missed.


--------------------
:willynilly:

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