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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14601240 - 06/12/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The only thing I could add would be my own personal experience. When I went through boot camp, self esteem seemed to be a focal point for the drill instructors.
Every action or inaction, drew a tremendous amount of physical and psychological "punishment"...this of course effects ones percetion of thier self esteem.
It got to the point, were everyone seemed to be at the same level or "equally low".


You march out of there, thinking your full of a new found sense of self esteem, yet, you still encounter people with an opposite view of you. 
I had a friend who wouldn't even talk to me when I got home on leave. After everything I went through, it still effected me.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14601316 - 06/12/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Did you get all Marine on his ass? :minigun:

I certainly would have.  :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14601330 - 06/12/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If everyone thinks you're a d-bag you probably shouldnt care what other people think of you because it would hinder self-esteem.

Or should you instead look at why people think you are a d-bag and try to make changes?

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14601335 - 06/12/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I had a friend who wouldn't even talk to me when I got home on leave.


Why didn't he talk to you? :undecided:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14601358 - 06/12/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
If everyone thinks you're a d-bag you probably shouldnt care what other people think of you because it would hinder self-esteem.


Where would your self-esteem come from if everyone hates you and thinks you're a dime bag? Self-esteem comes from validation by others..if nobody validates you, then you will not have any self-esteem.


Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Or should you instead look at why people think you are a d-bag and try to make changes?


I think that might be a good decision. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14601386 - 06/12/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

lol, the d doesnt stand for dime.
i guess what im getting at here is the validation has to come internally if it is not available externally. I think people get into "people-pleasing" mode when they cant find internal validation and need to find it externally.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: MisterMuscaria] * 1
    #14601416 - 06/12/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
lol, the d doesnt stand for dime.


I know, I'm just being funny. :tongue:


Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
i guess what im getting at here is the validation has to come internally if it is not available externally. I think people get into "people-pleasing" mode when they cant find internal validation and need to find it externally.


I'm not sure if it's possible for humans to find the validation they need internally..at least not early in life when they aren't too skilled at finding ways to curb their anxieties.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14601420 - 06/12/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I frankly dont know why.

This  was my childhood friend from 2nd grade throughout high school. He phoned me, told me he never wanted to see me again, then coldly hung up the phone. Im not sure if someone told him some falsehoods about me, but it was seriously one of the most shitty things that someone did to me.



To answer you, Ice, there was apart of me that wanted to call right back, and do what you suggested. But I thought, if he is going under the assumption of some possible lie, he should have known me better.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14601435 - 06/12/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I frankly dont know why.

This  was my childhood friend from 2nd grade throughout high school. He phoned me, told me he never wanted to see me again, then coldly hung up the phone. Im not sure if someone told him some falsehoods about me, but it was seriously one of the most shitty things that someone did to me.


Sorry to hear that, man, that must hurt. :frown:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14601454 - 06/12/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Growing up I was always made to feel that I was less than and generally a bad kid. I was also bullied by other students at school and scolded by all of my teachers. I was verbally abused by my mother daily and even the neighbor kids hated me.
Had I not been able to find some sorta internal strength Id have killed myself by now.

I did have a hard time adapting and becoming more positive though...by the time I was in highschool I had been mindfucked so much that I became the bully myself and took it upon myself to make others feel as small as I had always been made to feel. By the time I was a senior i thought that I had to make others feel bad to make myself feel better. At that point girls liked me for my looks and my peers liked me for my drugs.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14601483 - 06/12/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Growing up I was always made to feel that I was less than and generally a bad kid. I was also bullied by other students at school and scolded by all of my teachers. I was verbally abused by my mother daily and even the neighbor kids hated me.
Had I not been able to find some sorta internal strength Id have killed myself by now.


But it did cause you to fall into depression, right? Validation is necessary, particularly for young people, in order to curb depression/anxiety..it promotes happiness and psychological/emotional well-being.

You obviously would have been better off if you were validated more by your peers and the adults in your life.


Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
I did have a hard time adapting and becoming more positive though...by the time I was in highschool I had been mindfucked so much that I became the bully myself and took it upon myself to make others feel as small as I had always been made to feel. By the time I was a senior i thought that I had to make others feel bad to make myself feel better. At that point girls liked me for my looks and my peers liked me for my drugs.


So weren't you happier as a result of finding acceptance/validation?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14601503 - 06/12/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, but that acceptance validation would actually prove harmful.
I wasnt being accepted or validated for my talents and strengths and none were really encouraged and cultivated.
Once I got into my mid 20s and my looks faded and it was no longer cool to sit around doing drugs all day I had to relearn how to find healthy validation. im still trying to relearn it.
The delusions grandeur provided by psychedelics help me to find a false internal sense of contentment though...at least enough so that Im not a hermit.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: MisterMuscaria] * 1
    #14601519 - 06/12/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Yes, but that acceptance validation would actually prove harmful.
I wasnt being accepted or validated for my talents and strengths and none were really encouraged and cultivated.
Once I got into my mid 20s and my looks faded and it was no longer cool to sit around doing drugs all day I had to relearn how to find healthy validation. im still trying to relearn it.


This just shows how important validation is, even for people in their mid 20s..if you could be satisfied by internal validation, then you wouldn't be concerned about finding healthy validation from others.


Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
The delusions grandeur provided by psychedelics help me to find a false internal sense of contentment though...at least enough so that Im not a hermit.


Delusions can be fun. :Awemazing:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (09/22/12 03:40 AM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14602250 - 06/12/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I used to have a bumper sticker that said, "Don't worry what people think.  They don't do it very often."

But of course I agree that not caring what anyone thinks is actually rather pathological.  Instead, I think it works better to find a social group that has similar interests or personalities.  Then they can be the source of your self-esteem, and you won't have to conform to the rest of the world.


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Silversoul]
    #14602264 - 06/12/11 05:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I used to have a bumper sticker that said, "Don't worry what people think.  They don't do it very often."


Haha, that's nice. :grin:


Quote:

Silversoul said:
But of course I agree that not caring what anyone thinks is actually rather pathological.  Instead, I think it works better to find a social group that has similar interests or personalities.  Then they can be the source of your self-esteem, and you won't have to conform to the rest of the world.


True dat. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14602297 - 06/12/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

For me it depends, I don't like to try too hard to get other's respect but it's always a bonus. It's more important to me that I function well within the parameters of society to make things a little easier on myself, so I guess you could look at it as a kind of internal validation.

It's a tricky thing to have any real idea what's going on with your own or anyone elses psychology though so I don't like to define it too precisely, just sort of feel out a better mode of living. It's best not to follow too rigorously to any psychological or spiritual teaching, IMO they can only drop hints but at they end of the day it's up to you to figure out how to function as best you can and even then it's not going to be the most logical/linear proccess.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14602343 - 06/12/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
For me it depends, I don't like to try too hard to get other's respect but it's always a bonus. It's more important to me that I function well within the parameters of society to make things a little easier on myself, so I guess you could look at it as a kind of internal validation.


Well, any type of validation by others is going to be processed internally..so in a sense, all validation is internal. But if you're gaining your sense of validation from the parameters of society, then this means your internally processed validation is being extracted from an external source.


Quote:

Grapefruit said:
It's a tricky thing to have any real idea what's going on with your own or anyone elses psychology though so I don't like to define it too precisely, just sort of feel out a better mode of living. It's best not to follow too rigorously to any psychological or spiritual teaching, IMO they can only drop hints but at they end of the day it's up to you to figure out how to function as best you can and even then it's not going to be the most logical/linear proccess.


Well no concept is really completely solid..I think current psychological models are solid enough, in that they describe human psychological behavior with a significant degree of accuracy, and can be reliably used as an aid to increase self-understanding/self-healing.

Spiritual teachings, on the other hand, are vague and can be interpreted in any number of ways..they are not solid, and so cannot be reliably used as an aid to increase self-understanding/self-healing.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflinePinKing
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14602362 - 06/12/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Self-esteem is the feeling that one is a valuable and essential agent in a universe that is fundamentally meaningful.

Why do we need to feel this?

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: PinKing]
    #14602386 - 06/12/11 06:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Because, if we don't, we'll likely experience a deeply rooted anxiety inherent in the human condition..self-esteem is a protective shield designed to control the potential for terror that results from awareness of the horrifying possibility that we humans are merely transient animals groping to survive in a meaningless universe.

We need to feel like we matter, because the prospect of us not mattering is generally anxiety-provoking.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Why do some say "You shouldn't care what people think of you."? [Re: Poid]
    #14602649 - 06/12/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

  But if you're gaining your sense of validation from the parameters of society





Not quite what I meant... the part about functioning well in society has nothing to do with validation but more to do with harmonious functioning with others, where the validation (perhaps) comes in is through meeting the standards I set for myself rather than the standards others expect of me.

Quote:


Well no concept is really completely solid..I think current psychological models are solid enough, in that they describe human psychological behavior with a significant degree of accuracy, and can be reliably used as an aid to increase self-understanding/self-healing.

Spiritual teachings, on the other hand, are vague and can be interpreted in any number of ways..they are not solid, and so cannot be reliably used as an aid to increase self-understanding/self-healing.




Psychology is modelled upon people from a society that is generally unhealthy, so while the models are generally accurate for most people the treatments may not apply to everyone. For me, getting a sense of gratification from others feels like a lie, it just feels like a stupid thing to base my happiness on. It's hard to say why that's so but it is.

I find that some of the "spiritual" (I'd prefer the term psychological because although they are not based on psychological studies but personal experience of said teacher they have no mystical overtones) methods of looking into your own psychology to have affected me more to my liking (amplification of senses, emotions and life's vibrancy among other effects) than psychotherapuetical ones, I don't feel that psychotherapy is really about genuinely looking deeply into your psychology but more about denying the reality of life to increase comfort levels and decrease anxiety, this doesn't really interest me.

This isn't to say I don't ever look for gratification from others, I certainly do but consider it detrimental in terms of taking as much of my moment to moment experience in through senses and emotions.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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