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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Loc: Under the C
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The chemical/intent challenge
#14601572 - 06/12/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here is the challenge: Take a known lethal does of a poison that you have not been acclimated to and intend for it to have no effect. Show no effect and I will do the unthinkable - admit I am wrong.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
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Because this proves that intention has no effect on your psychological process when taking psychedelics or when dreaming? I don't think so.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Grapefruit]
#14601638 - 06/12/11 03:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It is impossible for an objective measurement of the internal psychedelic landscape, but we can test for control of certain chemical responses in my test. The beauty of it is there is no room for interpretation or wavering.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Here is the challenge: Take a known lethal does of a poison that you have not been acclimated to and intend for it to have no effect. Show no effect and I will do the unthinkable - admit I am wrong.
You can't use that one example and apply it to all scenarios of ingestion of chemicals. Have you ever tried tripping in a less than optimal scenario which resulted in a bad trip?
Your argument is basically along the lines of: "If you take acetominophen at a haunted house it won't make the experience even more scary. Therefore you can also take shrooms in a haunted house and it won't be any more scary."
Different chemicals have varying effects to different degrees based on your mindset.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Grapefruit]
#14601647 - 06/12/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: Because this proves that intention has no effect on your psychological process when taking psychedelics or when dreaming? I don't think so.
Of course set has an effect. I've subjectively proven that to myself hundreds of times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
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So your test really isn't related to your POV in the other thread at all?
As you've said, "It is impossible for an objective measurement of the internal psychedelic landscape"
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Icelander]
#14601654 - 06/12/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Grapefruit said: Because this proves that intention has no effect on your psychological process when taking psychedelics or when dreaming? I don't think so.
Of course set has an effect. I've subjectively proven that to myself hundreds of times.
That's my opinion too.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: 4896744]
#14601663 - 06/12/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Have you ever tried tripping in a less than optimal scenario which resulted in a bad trip?
Relevance? Bad trips are much more likely in heavy doses with perfect settings than light doses in poor settings.
I will make an exception for you. You can take the poison in an optimal setting.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Have you ever tried tripping in a less than optimal scenario which resulted in a bad trip?
Relevance? Bad trips are much more likely in heavy doses with perfect settings than light doses in poor settings.
I will make an exception for you. You can take the poison in an optimal setting. 
I've had awful trips on light amounts of psychedelics in poor settings. Also, what evidence do you have for your statement? I think you just pulled that one out of your ass.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: 4896744]
#14601684 - 06/12/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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OK. How much do you want to wager? We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach. Then we will count the people screaming uncontrollably.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Dose, set, and setting all effect the quality of trips..you have not provided any evidence in support of your apparent belief that set and setting do not significantly effect the quality of psychedelic trips.
It seems like you're saying that, just because a high dose is likely to produce a bad trip, this means that set/setting have no significant influence on whether or not a bad trip will be produced.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
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Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: OK. How much do you want to wager? We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach. Then we will count the people screaming uncontrollably.
Maybe if you arbitrarily set 500mcg as a "large" dose, then the people who took that would be more likely to freak out. However if you gave the people at the secluded beach 100 or 200 mcg I would say that they would be less likely to freak out imo.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Poid]
#14601722 - 06/12/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Note that this thread was about poison. Drink the hemlock and prove me wrong or keep blathering about something else.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
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Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Note that this thread was about poison. Drink the hemlock and prove me wrong or keep blathering about something else.
This thread was about you trying to save your ass when you were obviously wrong about something.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Drink the hemlock and prove me wrong or keep blathering about something else.
Can I blather about giving 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach, or would that be too off-topic for this thread?
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Poid]
#14601753 - 06/12/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have you ever written a have a non-blather type post?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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I can write those when I intend to on mushrooms.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: OK. How much do you want to wager? We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach. Then we will count the people screaming uncontrollably.
This would not prove that set or intent has no effect. It would only prove that set or intent are not all powerful influences. Right?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Icelander]
#14601823 - 06/12/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Work with me here. I am trying to get rid of a few members. Is that a bad thing?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Icelander]
#14601832 - 06/12/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: OK. How much do you want to wager? We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach. Then we will count the people screaming uncontrollably.
This would not prove that set or intent has no effect. It would only prove that set or intent are not all powerful influences. Right?
I think it only proves that dosage is more powerful an influence than either set or setting.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Not as long as you go with them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Poid]
#14601836 - 06/12/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: OK. How much do you want to wager? We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach. Then we will count the people screaming uncontrollably.
This would not prove that set or intent has no effect. It would only prove that set or intent are not all powerful influences. Right?
I think it only proves that dosage is more powerful an influence than either set or setting.
See? Once again progress is made!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Icelander]
#14601842 - 06/12/11 04:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Not as long as you go with them. 
OK, go fishing by your own damn self.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Work with me here. I am trying to get rid of a few members. Is that a bad thing?
Here is the challenge: Take a known lethal does of a poison that you have not been acclimated to and intend for it to have no effect. Show no effect and I will do the unthinkable - admit I am wrong.
So in effect you have stacked the deck. You cannot relate a deadly poison to a mildly poisonous psychedelic as proof that set or intent has no influence what so ever. You can prove nothing about your claim other than some things can over ride intent.
Fail.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The chemical/intent challenge [Re: Icelander]
#14601857 - 06/12/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anyone who doesn't stack the deck is naive.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: OK. How much do you want to wager? We will give 10 noobs 50mcg of LSD at a haunted house and 10 noobs 500mcgs of LSD at a secluded beach. Then we will count the people screaming uncontrollably.
This would not prove that set or intent has no effect. It would only prove that set or intent are not all powerful influences. Right?
I think it only proves that dosage is more powerful an influence than either set or setting.
See? Once again progress is made! 
Just because dosage is more powerful an influence doesn't mean that either set or setting aren't at all powerful influences..all it means is that dosage is more powerful an influence.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Once again progress is made! 
Is progress the opposite of congress?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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