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Offlinebik123
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wheat straw
    #14599789 - 06/12/11 08:05 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is it a must to soak the chopped up straw for a few hrs and then do the pasteurization?How long?

Or, straight up in the drum, one can heat the water up and pasteurize?

I also see that some say,pasteurize for 1hr at around 70C while others say, pasteurization ONLY happens at 55-60C. Above and below that tempt is detrimental.

Confused?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: wheat straw [Re: bik123]
    #14600147 - 06/12/11 10:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Chop the straw, then load into your pasteurizer and soak for 24 hours in plain water, or 2 hours in soapy water.  Then, heat to 60C for 90 minutes.  If it would help to see it in a visual format, check out my straw pasteurization video clip.
RR


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: wheat straw [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14602277 - 06/12/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I put straw and hottest water from water heater in at same time in my barrel and begin raising temp from the start.  Water in the barrel will initially be 130-140f.  After 1 - 1 1/2 hour of heating a full load the temp has raised to 160f then I keep heating for another 1 - 1 1/2 hours and unload so total time is 2-3hours and the end temp after heating continuously is 165-170f.

If you do smaller loads you will want to let straw soak under pasteurization temp for about 30min then start raising temp.

The straw is always hydrated fully in the 2-3 hrs and I don't use soap but I have don't have probs at least growing oysters on it (I do use soap and lime for cubensis straw logs). 

Are you saying RR that the soap aids in hydrating the straw by breaking water tension?


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Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


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InvisibleDoctor_Inoc
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Re: wheat straw [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14602745 - 06/12/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Are you saying RR that the soap aids in hydrating the straw by breaking water tension?



I'll grab this one, RR.

The soap acts as a wetting agent, making it so the straw can become hydrated sooner.  The same level of hydration can be achieved with a 24 hour soak, NO SOAP.


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Offlinecurry
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Re: wheat straw [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #14602885 - 06/12/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think in some cases we are making working with straw more difficult than it needs to be.  First of all, straw doesn't always have to be chopped up.  In my situation, I get straw in bales that are compressed so tightly, that the straw is crushed to a point where it is "opened up" to be easily colonized.  Straw fresh from a field won't allow easy myc penetration of the inside of the straw, so that is why we started chopping it up.  But highly compressed bales crush the straw to a point that chopping is not required.  In fact, long pieces of straw mixed into wood shavings helps keep my blocks from breaking apart.  Secondly, I've found that just steaming straw (without wetting it first) works great.  Whatever way you wish to steam will work, but I choose to steam in a microwave.  I fill a bag full of straw (and shavings), add a few cups of water, and stuff it in the microwave.  I nuke for 20 minutes, let it set in the steam for another 20 minutes and it's ready for adding water and spawn.  Just throwing out another way of accomplishing the same goal, delicious mushrooms.


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Offlinex7x_x7x
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Re: wheat straw [Re: curry]
    #14605100 - 06/13/11 09:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

why the soup dont lyse the fungal cells? have lipids in their outer membrane, isn“t?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: wheat straw [Re: curry]
    #14605728 - 06/13/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

curry said:
I think in some cases we are making working with straw more difficult than it needs to be.  First of all, straw doesn't always have to be chopped up.  In my situation, I get straw in bales that are compressed so tightly, that the straw is crushed to a point where it is "opened up" to be easily colonized.  Straw fresh from a field won't allow easy myc penetration of the inside of the straw, so that is why we started chopping it up.  But highly compressed bales crush the straw to a point that chopping is not required.  In fact, long pieces of straw mixed into wood shavings helps keep my blocks from breaking apart.  Secondly, I've found that just steaming straw (without wetting it first) works great.  Whatever way you wish to steam will work, but I choose to steam in a microwave.  I fill a bag full of straw (and shavings), add a few cups of water, and stuff it in the microwave.  I nuke for 20 minutes, let it set in the steam for another 20 minutes and it's ready for adding water and spawn.  Just throwing out another way of accomplishing the same goal, delicious mushrooms.





Not even close to the same goal.  I've ran tests on straw from 1" to 3" pieces, from whole straw from the bale, and on finely shredded straw, to the point of a peat-moss consistency.  The latter is by far going to return the highest amount of mushrooms.
RR


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OfflineMycelio
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Re: wheat straw [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14605758 - 06/13/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

To clear up another misunderstanding, straw has an outer layer of wax, so we use steam, hot water and sometimes soap to speed up soaking. Fungal cell membranes do consist of lipids, but they are protected by walls of chitin.

Carsten


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Offlinecurry
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Re: wheat straw [Re: Mycelio] * 1
    #14606275 - 06/13/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"The latter is by far going to return the highest amount of mushrooms."

I can see that certainly if you are comparing first flushes, a finely shredded straw will outperform longer pieces.  But I get many flushes out of my 30 pound blocks, and I assure you that the straw is completely consumed by the end.  So, for those that don't squeeze out all the flushes they can, I can see that cutting might be worth the extra effort.  But for my approach, large blocks and many flushes (using compressed straw), I don't need to bother.


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Re: wheat straw [Re: curry] * 1
    #14606994 - 06/13/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This was a pretty informative thread, I enjoyed it.

I also want to encourage people to disagree with established authorities like RR.  It's important to have multiple points of view.

I personally would however recommend rating posters in your mind and deciding what should be taken at face value and what needs to be closely studied and experimented with carefully.

In general I'd put more stock in a piece of information coming from RR (and there are other posters here, mostly mods, sometimes not mods) than from a source I'm less familiar with.


Still, it's good to have multiple points of view and opinions.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: wheat straw [Re: curry]
    #14607761 - 06/13/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

curry said:
"The latter is by far going to return the highest amount of mushrooms."

I can see that certainly if you are comparing first flushes, a finely shredded straw will outperform longer pieces.  But I get many flushes out of my 30 pound blocks, and I assure you that the straw is completely consumed by the end.




I have some three year old straw logs still fruiting outdoors and the straw is not fully consumed yet, after no less than three or four flushes per summer.  They sit under the snow all winter and fruit again the following year.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleAleon
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Re: wheat straw [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14608208 - 06/13/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

I have some three year old straw logs still fruiting outdoors and the straw is not fully consumed yet, after no less than three or four flushes per summer.  They sit under the snow all winter and fruit again the following year.
RR




Wow, thats amazing.  Never underestimate fungi. 

I also cant see un-chopped straw being better than chopped (and my experiences with oysters also tells me this).  Not to mention you can fit more in the fruiting container giving you higher yields in less space.  Also chopped gives faster colonization times because the mycelium doesnt have to grow through as many air pockets.

One main difference i see with peoples straw past. techniques is whether or not to pre-soak.  Some people swear by a 24 hour pre-soak b4 heating the h20, others put it in dry and past. right away.  I wonder why that is. It would be interesting to see a side by side grow log of both techniques.


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OfflineHumility
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Re: wheat straw [Re: Aleon]
    #14608380 - 06/13/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just ran out of soap; commandeered a few large containers so I can do a 24 hour soak of enough straw to last me a day's worth of pasteurizing.


Soap is too expensive to waste on this if it's bulk.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: wheat straw [Re: Humility] * 1
    #14608577 - 06/13/11 08:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Soap is too expensive to waste on this if it's bulk.




:shocked:

The amount of liquid soap you'd use washing your hands two or three times is enough for a 55 gallon drum of soak water.  Adding soap means the difference between a two to three hour soak to hydrate the straw or a 24 hour soak.  For people without a facility to process large amounts, the 20+ hour savings in time seems worth a fraction of a penny in soap costs, to me at least.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlinebik123
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Re: wheat straw [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14619780 - 06/15/11 09:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

RR, do recommend after soaking for 24 hrs, to use the same water or throw it away?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: wheat straw [Re: bik123]
    #14620187 - 06/15/11 11:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I use the same water.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineHumility
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Re: wheat straw [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14620986 - 06/16/11 04:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was using way more soap than that lol; maybe it'll be more viable if I only use that much.

I find the water gets really funky after 24 hours; soap definitely helps with that seeing as how you can get 8-10 pasteurizations done in 24 hours (gotta sleep) and then dispose of the water.


I kinda live around people and I"d hate for my backyard to smell like a tannery lol.

Thanks for always setting us straight.


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