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skatealex2
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Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice
#14599368 - 06/12/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain told Hotsheet Wednesday that homosexuality is a sin and a choice.
"I believe homosexuality is a sin because I'm a Bible-believing Christian, I believe it's a sin," he said. "But I know that some people make that choice. That's their choice."
Cain was asked: "So you believe it's a choice?"
"I believe it is a choice," he responded.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20070225-503544.html
So he follows texts that over 3,000 years old, judges people as sinners, believes jesus christ is his savior and he is campaigning to be president of the United States in 2012.
Edited by skatealex2 (06/12/11 03:27 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: skatealex2]
#14599614 - 06/12/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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And this is only one reason why I think Republicans are as retarded as Democrats. How can anyone support a Republican platform whole heartedly when they are willing to embrace these insane religious views? Yet I'm constantly seeing it here. Our side is right and your side is wrong.
Frankly if politicians represent us then they represent our insanity as well.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Seuss
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14599656 - 06/12/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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> And this is only one reason why I think Republicans are as retarded as Democrats.
To claim that one far right religious conservative's belief represents all Republicans is rather shallow.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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love2shpongleIRL
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: skatealex2]
#14599734 - 06/12/11 07:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Saw Mr. Cain's interview with Bill O'reiley Thursday night. Herman Cain came across as a political neophyte that lack's the intellectual capacity for office.
-------------------- Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot
Edited by love2shpongleIRL (06/12/11 07:44 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Seuss]
#14599763 - 06/12/11 07:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > And this is only one reason why I think Republicans are as retarded as Democrats.
To claim that one far right religious Conservatives belief represents all Republicans is rather shallow.
One? You've got to be kidding right? And I never said it represents all Republicans. Just as Obama doesn't represent all Democrats. The republican party for years has found it expedient to embrace fundamentalist Christian philosophy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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love2shpongleIRL
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14599959 - 06/12/11 09:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't mind them using the rhetoric. The dominant religion in this country by far is christianity. What I do mind is if they put that rhetoric into action.
-------------------- Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
#14599982 - 06/12/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well they have put it into action in policies that effect all of us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Phred
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14600002 - 06/12/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well they have put it into action in policies that effect all of us.
Examples, please.
Phred
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love2shpongleIRL
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14600005 - 06/12/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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True, but I think this is simple political posturing to go after the huckabee voters.Pawlenty,Frothy anal sex guy, and cain all seem to be saying the same things.
-------------------- Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot
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love2shpongleIRL
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Phred]
#14600006 - 06/12/11 09:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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He probaly ment issues like abortion, morality law's, and gay rights.
-------------------- Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot
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Phred
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
#14600024 - 06/12/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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No offense, but I think I'll wait for Icelander to provide his own examples, since none of yours are unique to fundamentalist Christianity, or even for that matter to religious folks in general.
Phred
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Phred]
#14600065 - 06/12/11 09:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
Well they have put it into action in policies that effect all of us.
Examples, please.
Phred
The polices on stem cell research by Bush. The anti abortion policies are greatly backed by fundamentalist christian belief. If you really believe that these issues would have such great power in politics without Christian morality behind them then you kid yourself even more than it appears Phred. Just because they are not unique to fundamentalist Christianity means little when that appears to be the driving force behind it. Very little in life Phred is so black and white as you would like it to be. There are always going to be people that oppose these things on other grounds. Just like any vote in congress is rarely completely along party lines.
I could say Republicans are not fiscally Conservative due to the fact that not every republican has voted that way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (06/12/11 09:52 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Phred]
#14600133 - 06/12/11 10:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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My point being that both parties are deeply flawed and anyone who doesn't see that, IMO, doesn't see it because they are invested emotionally in not seeing it and are being illogical.
For myself I don't care if I agree with the OPs fiscal policies or other policies I can't support the guy. Same with Obama, IMO he's fucked up but not more than Bush was. Just differently.
I may support issues and policies but never parties or individuals without reserve.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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love2shpongleIRL
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Phred]
#14600151 - 06/12/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Non taken. Icelander's right. While those issue's are not unique to fundamentalist Christianity, they are the major political force driving those issue's. That's part of the problem, single issue voter's. People put blind faith into a politician just because he backs an issue near and dear to their heart. You see it on drug forum's with legalization candidates and evangelical forum's with people professing their faith or stance on abortion, stem cells, gay marriage etc etc.
-------------------- Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot
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Phred
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14600189 - 06/12/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The polices on stem cell research by Bush.
Ah. So you are unaware there was zero federal funding for embryonic stem cell research before Bush signed it into law? You still haven't discovered that it was Bush who first authorized taxpayer dollars to be directed to this research? Why am I unsurprised?
As an aside, you do know that embryonic stem cell research in the US is legal, right?
Quote:
The anti abortion policies are greatly backed by fundamentalist christian belief.
And Jewish and Muslim and Buddhist (at a minimum) belief as well, not to mention a not-inconsiderable number of atheists. As for "anti-abortion policies", please name one. Have you forgotten that Roe v. Wade has been the controlling law on the subject in the US for almost four decades now?
Quote:
If you really believe that these issues would have such great power in politics without Christian morality behind them then you kid yourself even more than it appears Phred.
Why don't you name the countries with less restrictive abortion laws than the US, noting the religion of the majority of the citizens of each? Next, name the countries with more restrictive abortion laws than the US and note the religion of the majority of its citizens. Now compare the two lists. Notice anything?
Next, list for us the countries which have more taxpayer dollars assigned to embryonic stem cell research than the US. Take your time.
Phred
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Phred]
#14600248 - 06/12/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
The polices on stem cell research by Bush.
Ah. So you are unaware there was zero federal funding for embryonic stem cell research before Bush signed it into law? You still haven't discovered that it was Bush who first authorized taxpayer dollars to be directed to this research? Why am I unsurprised?
As an aside, you do know that embryonic stem cell research in the US is legal, right?
Quote:
The anti abortion policies are greatly backed by fundamentalist christian belief.
And Jewish and Muslim and Buddhist (at a minimum) belief as well, not to mention a not-inconsiderable number of atheists. As for "anti-abortion policies", please name one. Have you forgotten that Roe v. Wade has been the controlling law on the subject in the US for almost four decades now?
Quote:
If you really believe that these issues would have such great power in politics without Christian morality behind them then you kid yourself even more than it appears Phred.
Why don't you name the countries with less restrictive abortion laws than the US, noting the religion of the majority of the citizens of each? Next, name the countries with more restrictive abortion laws than the US and note the religion of the majority of its citizens. Now compare the two lists. Notice anything?
Next, list for us the countries which have more taxpayer dollars assigned to embryonic stem cell research than the US. Take your time.
Phred
I only stated that Bush was against it. I never said no other politicians were. And my problem isn't with Christianity alone but with any religion that rears it's head in politics. I've stated this several times in other threads.
And while Roe vs Wade is the governing policy at this time I would say a vast majority of fundamentalist religious politic ans oppose it and attempt to have it overturned or haven't you noticed that.
It matters to me not a wit that other countries may also have restrictive laws about humans rights as much of the world is religious. I need only worry about my country.
You seem to be going off topic to make your point.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Phred
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14600349 - 06/12/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
You seem to be going off topic to make your point.
Not in the slightest. Here's the sequence which prompted my contribution to the thread -
Icelander - The republican party for years has found it expedient to embrace fundamentalist Christian philosophy.
love2shpongleIRL - I don't mind them using the rhetoric. The dominant religion in this country by far is christianity. What I do mind is if they put that rhetoric into action.
Icelander - Well they have put it into action in policies that effect all of us.
To what does the "it" refer in that last statement of yours if not "fundamentalist Christian philosophy"? Clearly, you are claiming Republicans have enacted policies based on "fundamentalist Christian philosophy", as opposed (to name just four) to Jewish or Buddhist or Muslim or secular philosophy. When challenged to provide examples of these policies supposedly based on "fundamentalist Christian philosophy", so far you have vaguely alluded to "stem cell research", apparently unaware it was a Republican administration that first provided federal funding for it, and abortion policy, apparently unaware that many non-fundamentalist Christian countries in the world have more restrictive abortion policies than does the US. Opposition to abortion is most emphatically not a purely fundamentalist Christian position. For evidence, see the world.
Quote:
And while Roe vs Wade is the governing policy at this time I would say a vast majority of fundamentalist religious politic ans oppose it and attempt to have it overturned or haven't you noticed that.
Umm, no. I'm going to request proof of this assertion. Please provide a link to a credible source which names any legislation introduced in Congress aimed at overturning Roe v Wade. The fact of the matter is that regardless of the personal beliefs of the many, many pro-life legislators who have passed through Congress in the nearly four decades since Roe v Wade was enacted, no legislative challenge to it has been mounted by a member of Congress.
I have no dog in this hunt personally, since not only have I been a stone atheist since adolescence, but I also am not an American and hence won't be affected if - and this is a big if - Republicans ever do get around to enacting legislation based on "fundamentalist Christian philosophy". I don't dispute your claim because I am religious, but because your claim is inaccurate.
Phred
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Icelander
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Phred]
#14600474 - 06/12/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Again I point to Christianity because it is or has been the most popular religion in this country. That's all. If the OP was basing his beliefs on any other religion I would feel exactly the same.
As far as I know it's the Courts who decide whether Row vs Wade gets overturned? Am I wrong.
I found lots of challenges to Row vs Wade in a google search.
Several state legislatures are working on abortion prohibitions that eventually could result in a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, brought on behalf of "Jane Roe," Norma McCorvey, who now is an ardent opponent of abortion. http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41174
An anti-abortion bill unveiled by Ohio Republican state legislators today sets the stage for a Supreme Court fight that could jeopardize the decades-old precedent set by the nation's highest court. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ohio-heartbeat-bill-abortion-paves-roe-wade-challenge/story?id=12876224
My position again and it doesn't matter what party, is that it's foolish to support any party on principle.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Phred
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14600525 - 06/12/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Again I point to Christianity because it is or has been the most popular religion in this country. That's all. If the OP was basing his beliefs on any other religion I would feel exactly the same.
So to rephrase your statement to accurately reflect your position, the exchange should have read something like -
Icelander - politicians for years have found it expedient to embrace religious philosophy.
love2shpongleIRL - I don't mind them using religious rhetoric. What I do mind is if they put that rhetoric into action.
Icelander - Well they have put it into action in policies that effect all of us.
I repeat my question - let's have some examples of policies "put into action" - i.e., legislated as the law of the land - which are not also policies supported by non-religious folks such as myself.
Phred
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Phred
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Re: Herman Cain: Homosexuality is a sin and a choice [Re: Icelander]
#14600596 - 06/12/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oops. Forgot to address your links.
The first one clearly isn't a challenge to Roe v Wade, since it narrowly addresses only the issue of partial birth "abortion" rather than the first-trimester abortion paradigm Roe deals with. As an aside, World Net Daily is about as far from a credible source as one could ever hope to find. They are ridiculously right wing and so notoriously inaccurate and biased that no serious person on the right ever links to them even when their stance supports that person's argument. But even if we accept WND as a credible source, it still doesn't alter the fact that the case under discussion is a very VERY narrow subset of "abortions" indeed. It basically deals with the kind of butchery of viable beings Kurt (Curt?) Gosnell was indicted for.
The second one is more intriguing and I will follow its progress with interest. This is a very recent bill (just four months old) and I will admit I hadn't heard of it till now. I'm sure if this bill is ever passed we'll hear about it. However, I will repeat that opposition to abortion is not an exclusively religious stance. Many, many atheists oppose abortion, too.
Phred
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