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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14601821 - 06/12/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm just making a point.
You can't make a point in this forum with opinion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Poid]
#14603224 - 06/12/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: If me forming opinions on others' drug use is being too judgmental, then so is there reaction to this question.
I personally don't think you're being too judgmental, I just think your judgment on this issue is fucking stupid. 
Then what would be the correct judgment, in your opinion?
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14603510 - 06/12/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: Of course I think it's an absurdity and in no way justified that people are thrown in prison for smoking, eating, dropping, or in some other way consuming something, but I'm not sure if I would like it if psychedelics became mainstream. And that's probably what would happen if drugs were legalized, wouldn't you think? If mushrooms were legalized, for instance, they would gain publicity, more people would know about them, and more people would be willing to try them. And I know what you're thinking - Salvia isn't like that. Datura isn't like that. But these drugs aren't as well known as others like mushrooms and LSD. And since these haven't been in the spotlight of federal politics yet they haven't gained any publicity and won't until they are banned (which knowing our government and society, is bound to happen eventually.)
In short, I definitely don't want drugs banned, but I'm also afraid that if they are, they will become more mainstream and people will just casually use it like they do alcohol. I'm afraid more people might try psychedelics to "get fucked up" then to actually gain any insight from it or use it in a more dignified manner. I think people should have the right to do this, but I mourn the day when they start to do so.
What do you think?
well if psychedelic's went mainstream then i think you would need to get psychedelic's on vinyl -ba dum, tsss- but in all seriousness, drugs are just drugs, people take way to much pride in their drug use and almost start acting like its a clubhouse where no girls are allowed or something. I mean seriously, lets not be hipsters
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
#14603522 - 06/12/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Powdered_Toastman said:
Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: Of course I think it's an absurdity and in no way justified that people are thrown in prison for smoking, eating, dropping, or in some other way consuming something, but I'm not sure if I would like it if psychedelics became mainstream. And that's probably what would happen if drugs were legalized, wouldn't you think? If mushrooms were legalized, for instance, they would gain publicity, more people would know about them, and more people would be willing to try them. And I know what you're thinking - Salvia isn't like that. Datura isn't like that. But these drugs aren't as well known as others like mushrooms and LSD. And since these haven't been in the spotlight of federal politics yet they haven't gained any publicity and won't until they are banned (which knowing our government and society, is bound to happen eventually.)
In short, I definitely don't want drugs banned, but I'm also afraid that if they are, they will become more mainstream and people will just casually use it like they do alcohol. I'm afraid more people might try psychedelics to "get fucked up" then to actually gain any insight from it or use it in a more dignified manner. I think people should have the right to do this, but I mourn the day when they start to do so.
What do you think?
well if psychedelic's went mainstream then i think you would need to get psychedelic's on vinyl -ba dum, tsss- but in all seriousness, drugs are just drugs, people take way to much pride in their drug use and almost start acting like its a clubhouse where no girls are allowed or something. I mean seriously, lets not be hipsters
I didn't mean to come off that way. I find hipsters who think they're more enlightened than everyone else because they do drugs or spend all their time reading books about different types of anarchy to be annoying. I guess I'm just a pretty reclusive person myself and I don't want to be associated with frat types and punk teenager stereotypes
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Icelander]
#14603560 - 06/12/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Icelander said: Says you. So what if people want to use them for entertainment. What makes so called spiritual insight better? How about you sound egotistical and all superior instead of control freaky? You, and I, from what I can see here are average droll citizens. We just like to think we're fundamentally different.
Hocus pocus aside, you don't feel someone who has worked to understand their mind is fundamentally different from someone who hasn't?
Given your assertion that the person is a an emergent property of the brain how does this view hold water given the fact that we know greater insight into the workings of our selves causes drastic changes in nearly every aspect of the persona?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14604889 - 06/13/11 07:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I guess I'm just a pretty reclusive person myself and I don't want to be associated with frat types and punk teenager stereotypes
What do you care if other people judge you incorrectly? It happens all the time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Cups]
#14604908 - 06/13/11 07:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cups said:
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Icelander said: Says you. So what if people want to use them for entertainment. What makes so called spiritual insight better? How about you sound egotistical and all superior instead of control freaky? You, and I, from what I can see here are average droll citizens. We just like to think we're fundamentally different.
Hocus pocus aside, you don't feel someone who has worked to understand their mind is fundamentally different from someone who hasn't?
Given your assertion that the person is a an emergent property of the brain how does this view hold water given the fact that we know greater insight into the workings of our selves causes drastic changes in nearly every aspect of the persona?
We all live, we eat, we shit, we breed, we die. This is fundamental. Everything else is trivial imo. Is your world and life that different from anyone else's? Do you laugh and they don't? Do you suffer and they don't? Do they have anxiety and you don't? Do they dream and fantasize and you don't? Are they delusional and you're not?
Only or two one degrees separates humans imo. Like genetically we are basically like our brothers.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Icelander]
#14604990 - 06/13/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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ready for a lot of "I"s?
When I re-read my post I thought you'd simply respond "a persona is a persona". Close enough.
I don't know why I posted it really except that it reveals some mental battle going on behind the scenes.
I know that part of the way I cope with what I am going through is to believe that it is accomplishing something...going somewhere.
I also know that I have been through periods where I have "lost" that belief and they were quite intense.
Put all the pain and struggle in context of meaningless and it overwhelms you. Kills you.
I'm more confused than usual man. This is usually a good thing in retrospect, but in the moment it's a wee bit suckish.

-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14606140 - 06/13/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said:
Quote:
Poid said:
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Celestial Traveler said: If me forming opinions on others' drug use is being too judgmental, then so is there reaction to this question.
I personally don't think you're being too judgmental, I just think your judgment on this issue is fucking stupid. 
Then what would be the correct judgment, in your opinion?
There is no "correct" judgment, as judgments are subjective opinions..there is no such thing as a "true" or "correct" opinion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Icelander]
#14606945 - 06/13/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Icelander said: I guess I'm just a pretty reclusive person myself and I don't want to be associated with frat types and punk teenager stereotypes
What do you care if other people judge you incorrectly? It happens all the time.
It's about self-perception. I like to differentiate myself from these types in my own view. I don't want to stop them from doing hallucinogens, I wouldn't even care much if they did, I just wouldn't want to associate with them.
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Poid]
#14606953 - 06/13/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Celestial Traveler said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: If me forming opinions on others' drug use is being too judgmental, then so is there reaction to this question.
I personally don't think you're being too judgmental, I just think your judgment on this issue is fucking stupid. 
Then what would be the correct judgment, in your opinion?
There is no "correct" judgment, as judgments are subjective opinions..there is no such thing as a "true" or "correct" opinion.
Thus the reason for the phrase "in your opinion."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Cups]
#14607361 - 06/13/11 04:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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oh I hear ya man. If you remember Becker put a lot of emphasis on this in his book. That reminds me I have a question for you in PM. I just have to remember what it was.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14607368 - 06/13/11 04:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just wouldn't want to associate with them.
Then don't, let them be and it's done.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful



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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Icelander]
#14607488 - 06/13/11 05:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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this is how I feel about it too. very conflicted.
Like with weed lately it seems like it turned into a fashion statement almost-when I started toking people where I live acted like it was heroin or pcp or something and were complete fucking douchebags all through middle school and high school and everything, but now those same people are always at parties "oh check me out I smoke marijuana!". Theres shirts and hats at the mall I've seen with a pot leaf and gold glitter n shit and don't even get me started on shit like kesha or however the fuck u spell it.
I think the problem is that people start to use it recreationally until it becomes all about who does the biggest dose, the most often, etc etc (which already happens though of course, but I think it would get worse).
I think the solution is that it needs to be legalized with the proper perception. Weed, for instance, is at least still considered medicinal and I do believe that keeps it in a better place than if you could buy it at every walmart and gas station.
I believe that psychedelics need to be incorporated into a new psychotherapy tradition, a sort of "neo-shamanism". I would have people trained in psychology and therapy, but also cultural anthropology/sociology/world religions, etc so they can appropriately guide people through trips no matter their culture or religion, etc. All the problems with psychedelics come from improper use so if there was a type of clinic for it like in the early days of lsd, I think we could really harness its potential for therapeutic use.
--------------------
Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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Ziggy-Shr00mdust
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14607660 - 06/13/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Many aspects of our society would have to change before psychedelics became mainstream, the most difficult of all being the hunger for knowledge and deeper understanding of the self, and the nature of existence and reality in relation to the self.
it is rare that somebody chooses to use psychedelics regularly unless they have discovered the the potential for these substances to give us a greater understanding of things.
What would I think? Apprehension and and relief would be felt in equal measure, the realization that humanity has taken such a step forwards would be difficult to come to terms with at first.
-------------------- He who attains his ideal by that very fact transcends it To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders
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nglsnv
Becoming



Registered: 08/31/10
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Ziggy-Shr00mdust]
#14608022 - 06/13/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ziggy-Shr00mdust said: Many aspects of our society would have to change before psychedelics became mainstream
i agree, which is why i don't see this happening anytime soon. proper education would be necessary if they became legal, which means throwing out all the propaganda we've been fed over the years.
can you imagine what would happen if the US suddenly abolished the drinking age? being thrown into such an opportunity for abuse would only cause problems, given the nature of our (the US) society. in places like Europe, where the drinking age is significantly lower, alcohol is eased into the situation more responsibly by parents allowing their children to drink at a much younger age.
but nowadays it seems that the general consensus when it comes to drugs is the more the better in all societies so who knows..
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: nglsnv]
#14608210 - 06/13/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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If psychedelics became mainstream then I expect that the psychological/psychiatric traditions would be forced to re-evaluate their all too common diagnoses of "Drug-induced psychosis", much as they were forced to remove homosexuality from the DSM when it became mainstream.
If you go into a church and hear God talking to you, there are few psychiatrists who would openly declare that you were mentally ill. Smoke some DMT and see machine elves and have trouble integrating this experience with your everyday life and they might.
I would also expect that psychedelics would come to be seen as a rite of passage for the many instead of the current few, in much the same way as getting so drunk you piss yourself is seen as a rite of manhood by many.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: 1tokeovrtheline]
#14608893 - 06/13/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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1tokeovrtheline said: this is how I feel about it too. very conflicted.
Like with weed lately it seems like it turned into a fashion statement almost-when I started toking people where I live acted like it was heroin or pcp or something and were complete fucking douchebags all through middle school and high school and everything, but now those same people are always at parties "oh check me out I smoke marijuana!". Theres shirts and hats at the mall I've seen with a pot leaf and gold glitter n shit and don't even get me started on shit like kesha or however the fuck u spell it.
I think the problem is that people start to use it recreationally until it becomes all about who does the biggest dose, the most often, etc etc (which already happens though of course, but I think it would get worse).
I think the solution is that it needs to be legalized with the proper perception. Weed, for instance, is at least still considered medicinal and I do believe that keeps it in a better place than if you could buy it at every walmart and gas station.
I believe that psychedelics need to be incorporated into a new psychotherapy tradition, a sort of "neo-shamanism". I would have people trained in psychology and therapy, but also cultural anthropology/sociology/world religions, etc so they can appropriately guide people through trips no matter their culture or religion, etc. All the problems with psychedelics come from improper use so if there was a type of clinic for it like in the early days of lsd, I think we could really harness its potential for therapeutic use.
THANK YOU! The first 3 paragraphs perfectly illustrate what I'm trying to say. Down to the core. Except I don't agree with your "legalize...with exceptions" idea. Sounds too fascist, plus the cultural indoctrination part doesn't sound very nice either
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
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Loc: Idaho
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Icelander]
#14608937 - 06/13/11 09:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Professor Tibbs said:
Quote:
Ziggy-Shr00mdust said: Many aspects of our society would have to change before psychedelics became mainstream
i agree, which is why i don't see this happening anytime soon. proper education would be necessary if they became legal, which means throwing out all the propaganda we've been fed over the years.
can you imagine what would happen if the US suddenly abolished the drinking age? being thrown into such an opportunity for abuse would only cause problems, given the nature of our (the US) society. in places like Europe, where the drinking age is significantly lower, alcohol is eased into the situation more responsibly by parents allowing their children to drink at a much younger age.
but nowadays it seems that the general consensus when it comes to drugs is the more the better in all societies so who knows..
I disagree. I think with just a little pinch of media influence, any taboo act can become fad. I think mainstream society could easily embrace psychedelics while still retaining our present cultural stupidity. People will believe anything that comes out of a TV, even it it's utter bullshit.
Anything that becomes mainstream is almost always bastardized.
Quote:
Icelander said: I just wouldn't want to associate with them.
Then don't, let them be and it's done.
Yes, I've never wanted not to let them be, but I still won't like it. It's very difficult to repair the deep, personal sentiment an idea or thing has once it's been degraded into a popular fad.
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful



Registered: 04/12/10
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Re: What would you think if psychedelics became mainstream? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#14609066 - 06/13/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Celestial Traveler said: THANK YOU! The first 3 paragraphs perfectly illustrate what I'm trying to say. Down to the core. Except I don't agree with your "legalize...with exceptions" idea. Sounds too fascist, plus the cultural indoctrination part doesn't sound very nice either
well I agree, I don't mean legal restrictions, but like marijuana, thats just how you go about it you know? Like you could go down to the clinic and get some lsd or whatever, but they give you some decent advice on it, etc. I'm just saying I would be uncomfortable with it being sold at walmart next to the bud light n shit, cuz that just puts it in the wrong light I think. If we could culturally keep it somewhat taboo to do psychedelics in a party/recreational setting, and make sure people have good, honest, and useful info on them. I mean thats what they try to do with alcohol, weed, prescription and even otc medication and I think the same precautions and education should apply to psychedelics. At the same time I think people who want to explore psychedelic use therapeutically should have more than adequate resources to do so.
--------------------
Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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