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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing 4
#14594964 - 06/11/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most members here are aware of the facility my wife and I have been building over the last few years. However, I haven't gone into much detail on the engineering behind the design as we worked to perfect the system and get it all operational and up to speed. I'm also pretty sure I've kept my professional affiliation as an elected Conservation District Supervisor separate from our Shiitake mushroom farming activities, but they're intertwined with the research and development work we're doing into green energy farming techniques.
We're doing work, so far very successful, on the amelioration of fecal coliform bacteria in water runoff, and are about to embark on some ambitious new projects where we use spent mushroom substrates to clean up the runoff from leaking septic tanks, which are seeping into a nearby mountain lake, causing algae bloom and threatening the fish.
Another big area of concern with traditional wheat and other chemical-intensive farms and cattle ranching is the runoff from irrigation and waste, which makes its way into the rivers. I envision protective walls of spent mushroom substrates to capture, filter and/or consume this runoff before it reaches the streams, rivers or lakes. According to the World Health Organization, water could become the new 'oil' during this century. Anything and everything we can do to hand a cleaner planet to our children and grandchildren should be considered a top priority.
Anyone with ideas to share are encouraged to put them here. Thanks. RR
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Doctor_Inoc
Vintage Hand
Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 646
Loc:
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14595168 - 06/11/11 09:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
According to the World Health Organization, water could become the new 'oil' during this century. Anything and everything we can do to hand a cleaner planet to our children and grandchildren should be considered a top priority.
ALL ABOARD with this post. Thanks for considering the future of our planet for the sake of generations to come.
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mister
Nature nut



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
#14595243 - 06/11/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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 I read some where there was a strain of mushrooms that was being used to clean up oil spills on beaches. Think it was an oyster. This is agreat idea.
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NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 548
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14595262 - 06/11/11 10:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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RR, I really appreciate you sharing your fantastic efforts and ideas on minimisation of energy usage at your farm. I've had a look through your website but I haven't seen an explanation...how do you naturally generate your fresh air flow through your subterranean fruiting chamber?
My slightly eccentric father designed and built our family home underground, so I'm a huge believer in the insulation benefits of subterranean design. It's fantastic seeing it working for you for farming.
I heard recently about a utility scale project proposal here in Australia where they proposed storing wind energy. I was very curious to hear how this was possible but really it's a matter of having wind turbines pump water up hill into a dam, then when the power is required they generate it via a hydro electric plant.
I know you have a creek but I wonder whether a water wheel could power your 1/15HP fan. You need a fairly good drop and volume of water to produce household volumes of electricity so that might be asking a bit much.
I have a huge desire to follow your lead in terms of intelligent and minimal impact design. Although, without snow on the ground for months of the year. Surely that's god's way of saying "stay the eff out!"
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NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 548
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: mister]
#14595272 - 06/11/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It makes sense, fossil fuels are just carbon with easy to break bonds and fungi are digesters that return carbon to the soil. Making it accessible to other organisms to use.
So a fungi 'should' be able to digest oil.
I'm sure it's not that straight forward but it'd great in theory.
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mister
Nature nut



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: NSF]
#14595297 - 06/11/11 10:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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mister
Nature nut



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: mister]
#14595331 - 06/11/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also on the removal of the bacteria you stated RR here you go.
fecal coliform bacteria
and here
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: NSF]
#14595576 - 06/11/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
NSF said: RR, I really appreciate you sharing your fantastic efforts and ideas on minimisation of energy usage at your farm. I've had a look through your website but I haven't seen an explanation...how do you naturally generate your fresh air flow through your subterranean fruiting chamber?
Air will always travel from high pressure to low. I have two 12" vent stacks from the underground grow area to 6 feet above the surface. One is painted black to absorb sunlight and become warmer than the other, which is painted white. This creates a natural flow whenever the sun is shining. In addition, the CO2 from the fruiting substrates is at a different density than the air above, and the natural tendency in the absence of vacuum is for air masses to equalize themselves. The small fan ensures some air is flowing even at night and on cloudy days.
My creek doesn't have enough drop to generate power where it passes through my property. On my adjacent neighbor's property, the same creek has about a 500 feet drop, and this is enough if I routed water from the creek into a pipe, which ran down along the creek a few hundred feet to spin a turbine(water pump from a car), it could turn an automotive alternator, which could produce power, and the water would then be routed right back into the creek.
I could set up a solar panel or two to run the mushroom house, (which I already have) but the entire farm only adds $5/month to our electric bill, so I left it on the grid for day/night dependability. Solar is nice, but not until new lead-free batteries or some other practical storage system for small users is developed. I hate to save electricity by using solar, but then causing pollution every few years when the batteries have to be replaced. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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FernandoCastro
Deus Impeditio Esuritori Nullus


Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Portugal
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14597997 - 06/11/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Among other procedures, the Water Conservation paragraph caught my interest because I was thinking about a similar thing (collecting rain).
It's mentioned that you re-use the spent water to 4 times from the fruiting area. How do you collect and filter it before using it again?
Thanks in advance
-------------------- www.cogusbox.com
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: FernandoCastro]
#14598092 - 06/11/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Collecting is easy in the mountains. The rain runs down gullies on our property where we store it in food grade barrels. We also have storm gutters on the roof of our cabin, and we collect the runoff and place it in barrels.
We don't filter it. We use the water just as we collect it.
I also haven't mentioned yet that we're growing our own organic rye berries on a few acres, beginning right over our mushroom house, and going up the mountain from there. We use no-till farming methods, planting clover and lupines mixed in with the rye. The clover and lupines are both nitrogen fixing, so they provide the nutrients for the rye berries which we harvest in the fall for both straw and grain. We use no other fertilizer. Our goal is to make our little farm as self-sufficient as possible. RR

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NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 548
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14598218 - 06/11/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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RR: agreed, the metals in batteries are a worry. Just like the cadmium that used to be in solar panels. I still hear that, due to aluminium, the amount of energy used to construct a solar panel is more than the panel is able to produce in its life. That's a real worry/shame from a global energy view point.
But if that doesn't trouble you why do you have to store solar? Your grow room is underground, so during daylight hours it requires light, so why not let the solar run the LEDs directly?
Your solar hot pipe vs cold pipe fresh air exchange is a great idea. Is the hot pipe connected near the floor at one end and the fresh air/cold pipe at the top at the other end? Just due to co2 being heavier. And is there an up vs down wind element to this system too?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: NSF]
#14598320 - 06/11/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I need power at night to run the small circulating fan. Still air in a mushroom house is never a good thing from a mold standpoint. The fan keeps the CO2 stirred up and in suspension so it can be exhausted.
Actually, it's the intake pipe that goes to the floor so it can disperse the gasses and move them upward, not the other way around. Remember, CO2 mixes with the air rather than settle to the bottom like water would. I originally had it set up the other way, with the exhaust port near the floor, but my CO2 meter readings convinced me to switch it to the current setup. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Mike711
friend


Registered: 05/22/10
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Loc: PNW
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14598842 - 06/12/11 12:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Now if you run the solar panels during the day directly to the grid it will turn back or slow the meter right? then you will be able to utilize your panels you already have and save some cash. but for power outages since you only really need power at night to run your fan a wind turbine should work well. I cant remember if you get any wind at your house. but i know there was wind on the top of the mountain and its right there. that would give you power at night.
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 233
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: Mike711]
#14599465 - 06/12/11 04:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Great work RR, thanks so much for going to the trouble to document it and share with other cultivators. It sure saves all the effort of trial and error when valuable info is shared 
Quick question on the humidity factor....
Are you only using the rocks on the floor with a daily spray, or do you also use a humidifier of sorts?
I've grown Oysters as well as Swiss browns in insulated shipping containers before, and really struggled with low humidity!
Cheers!
OmSource
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: OmSource]
#14599600 - 06/12/11 06:05 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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We spray the substrates twice a day, and the runoff coats the rocks, keeping humidity in the correct range. We don't use any mechanical humidifiers at all. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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fungus_tao
Hah Zah!



Registered: 05/10/06
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14613232 - 06/14/11 04:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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RR, Interesting study. It seems like I have read somewhere that a commercial greenhouse is suppose to be x number of feet away from a septic tank. Is there any truth to this? Reason I'm asking is because it costs over 3k to tap onto city sewer/water. I'm thinking for that I could dig a well and drop in a septic tank, but I want to plan for a greenhouse too. Thanks!!
-------------------- Follow the light The Light is your guide.
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x7x_x7x
x7x, my problem child.




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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: fungus_tao]
#14613400 - 06/14/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"After just three years of placing some of our spent sawdust substrates into the area of this seepage, the stench is completely gone, and there is only a small amount of algae that forms during the hottest months"
amazing! please tell us more
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: x7x_x7x]
#14614903 - 06/14/11 10:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can't speak for how far it has to be from a septic line. Mine isn't far at all from the leach line, but it's uphill from it. I don't know about where you live, but here it costs around $20K to drill a well. You can always stretch a garden hose to the mushroom house, and just get water that way. We got through a whole winter that way, keeping the hose in a heated shed when not in use.
You don't need to hook the grow room to sewer. The water that comes out isn't considered a pollutant. Just route the floor drains to your garden area.
Here's a better picture of the organic rye berries growing in the meadow above our mushroom house. It's been growing a couple of inches a day. Looks like we'll have a nice little crop of grains and rye straw. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14615362 - 06/15/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is a great concept, nicely done.
How do you plan to harvest? And how will you separate the grain from the straw?
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mister
Nature nut



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: Green Energy and Conservation in Mushroom Growing [Re: wildernessjunkie]
#14619108 - 06/15/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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everytime I see a picture of that mushroom cave, it just makes me go
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