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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What is nothing? [Re: Fink Ployd]
    #14591047 - 06/10/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

If there was ever nothing in the universe than it would be impossible for anything to come about.




How do you know?  Any evidence to support that, or is it just your belief?

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Offlinesigma_zero
internet Jedi
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Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 701
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14592375 - 06/10/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Its just a law of physics as far as we know it.  The law of conservation of energy, or information. whatever you like.


--------------------
The truth is, nobody has a clue.

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OfflineDimi
The Mindful One


Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 190
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: What is nothing? [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14593091 - 06/10/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

As soon as "nothing" is defined, as an object or idea, it becomes "something".

In this universe, there isn't a "nothing", everything is a "something". There is no point trying to find a "nothing" and no one ever will.

The closest thing I can think of to a "nothing" is a black hole, but it really is a definate object that amounts to a massive cosmic vacuum.

I got really sidetracked on the black hole idea...bare with me a second on this idea:

I have an idea about Black Holes, since they suck in so much matter to an infinitely small point of infinite mass, perhaps that mass becomes unstable and blows apart (explodes) and tears space-time, creating another parallel universe somewhere else. The resulting tear disappears with the black hole, leaving a new universe. This allows for the conservation of energy to remain true, while explaining why our universe is less massive than it appears.

It also explains how this universe got here, a black hole somewhere became critically massive and when it exploded, that explosion was our big bang.

I know...so where did that black hole come from...and the one before that and so on...I cannot explain it either.


--------------------
Buddha: Born: 563 BC - Died: 483 BC
-Hatred will not cease by hatred, but by love alone. This is the ancient law
-Neither fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds

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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: What is nothing? [Re: Dimi]
    #14593872 - 06/11/11 01:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i was talking to somebody earlier about this, and i think "nothing" is an absence of time.

Even blackness, black holes and a vaccum are something when there is time.



It's a bit of a mindf**k  to think about in that case that the outer bounds of the universe are frozen in time.

That and kind of how "time" relates to the universe in that case, the motion of things, and how it relates to "relativity."

who knows!


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (06/11/11 05:17 AM)

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OfflineDimi
The Mindful One


Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 190
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: What is nothing? [Re: Shins]
    #14593880 - 06/11/11 01:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i was talking to somebody earlier about this, and i think "nothing" is an absence of time




Interesting that you said that. If what you said is true, this fact comes to mind:

The faster you go approaching the speed of light, the slower time goes for the traveler, until the point at which you hit the speed of light, time theoretically stops, and IF you could go faster, it would imply time would go backwards.

So, does that mean, according to what you said, if you traveled the speed of light (therefore time is stopped for you, not observers) you'd become nothing?

Where did you hear this "absence of time" thing at?


--------------------
Buddha: Born: 563 BC - Died: 483 BC
-Hatred will not cease by hatred, but by love alone. This is the ancient law
-Neither fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds

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InvisibleShins
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: What is nothing? [Re: Dimi]
    #14594122 - 06/11/11 02:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

We just smoked a joint and made it up lol.

Quote:

The faster you go approaching the speed of light, the slower time goes for the traveler until the point at which you hit the speed of light, time theoretically stops, and IF you could go faster, it would imply time would go backwards.




Isn't that relative though?  Doesn't time only go slower relative to a slower velocity observer?

It's a bit of a mind screw though because it's relative, and so is my brain right now so it's hard to fathom.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (06/11/11 05:17 AM)

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OfflineDimi
The Mindful One


Registered: 05/09/11
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: Shins]
    #14594138 - 06/11/11 02:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's relative to the observer, but to the person traveling, time is stopped when going the speed of light. Not that anyone could survive going that fast :smile:

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InvisibleShins
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: Dimi]
    #14594218 - 06/11/11 03:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

But assuming you could travel at the speed of light, would time not seem normal to you, just the rest of the world is passing time at an infinite speed?

Thus the speed of light is infinite time, and the speed of nothing (0) is no time at all?

Even space is supposedly expanding and thus moving right?

It's strange, i just remembered what religion says about "god" creating light etc. during "creation." and separating it from "the void."

Does this just mean "god created" time, as a first step to existence?

..and that the everything with velocity more than nothing (0)all the way to the speed of light (infinite) is time, existence, and vice versa?


Edited by Shins (06/11/11 05:22 AM)

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InvisibleShins
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: Shins]
    #14594258 - 06/11/11 03:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe "darkness" or a vaccum is faster than the speed of light!

Maybe infinite time = speed of darkness, vacuum or "Aether."

perhaps that is why we can't see the edge of the universe, because the expanding darkness is faster than light.

This is all super interesting to me, especially when you start to factor a vaccum as a tangible medium into physics.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (06/11/11 05:24 AM)

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OfflineFink Ployd
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Registered: 06/09/11
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14596930 - 06/11/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

If there was ever nothing in the universe than it would be impossible for anything to come about.




How do you know?  Any evidence to support that, or is it just your belief?




It is not so much a "belief" as an idea. I don't base it on faith, but on logic. I only have logic as evidence.

How can the universe ever have been nothing? If it was ever nothing, than that would mean at some point it didn't exist. If the universe didn't exist than how could it come into existence? How can nothing have exploded into something? Where did the something come from if there is nothing in the universe to become anything?

I'm just saying that it seems like the universe always has and always will be. The universe is existence, existence is the universe, they are one in the same. There is no beginning, no end, only existence.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: Dimi]
    #14597057 - 06/11/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So, does that mean, according to what you said, if you traveled the speed of light (therefore time is stopped for you, not observers) you'd become nothing?

Is a photon "nothing"?

I was thinking the other day about photons. To a photon, traveling at the speed of light, time actually doesn't exist. A photon comes into being at some point in time and, from its perspective, it interacts with another particle at that same point in time. From our perspective, the photon can travel for many millions of years and trillions of km...but from its perspective it hasn't traveled anywhere at all.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineDimi
The Mindful One


Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 190
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Re: What is nothing? [Re: trendal]
    #14597282 - 06/11/11 06:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

.but from its perspective it hasn't traveled anywhere at all.




From it's (the photon)perspective, everything else around it has moved. trippy huh?:mushroom2:

Brian Greene's book, "The Elegant Universe" has an excellent section on perception of moving objects in relation to space-time. I recommend, it's a good read.

Edited by Dimi (06/11/11 06:30 PM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What is nothing? [Re: trendal]
    #14597384 - 06/11/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
So, does that mean, according to what you said, if you traveled the speed of light (therefore time is stopped for you, not observers) you'd become nothing?

Is a photon "nothing"?

I was thinking the other day about photons. To a photon, traveling at the speed of light, time actually doesn't exist. A photon comes into being at some point in time and, from its perspective, it interacts with another particle at that same point in time. From our perspective, the photon can travel for many millions of years and trillions of km...but from its perspective it hasn't traveled anywhere at all.




The problem is, you cannot enter the frame of reference of a photon.  In order to investigate the 'perspective' in different frames of reference, you need to 'boost' (or Lorentz transform) from one frame to another.  But the way that lorentz transformations work, you cannot boost to a photon's perspective because you cannot boost to a frame of reference that is at the speed of light.

So you cant really talk about the photon's frame of reference because there isnt one.

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