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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok?
    #14588533 - 06/10/11 12:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So many threads on here have people complaining about the rich getting richer, and the "poor" getting poorer. There is a good reason for that, you keep buying there products and services. If you do not want them to be rich then stop buying things from there companies, they will not threaten you with a gun like the government does when you stop giving them money. Not only do these "rich" corporations and individuals make the vast majority of government funded programs possible, without them almost none of the programs so many people have come to rely on, would even be possible. Ever heard the saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? This is a perfect example.

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InvisibleNezzy
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Posts: 270
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14588570 - 06/10/11 12:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sometimes they're the only companies within reach to buy from due to putting the ma' n pa' stores out of business. I still don't support stealing, though.

Edited by Nezzy (06/10/11 12:40 AM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14588584 - 06/10/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
So many threads on here have people complaining about the rich getting richer, and the "poor" getting poorer. There is a good reason for that, you keep buying there products and services.



Actually, the reason for that is because organized labor is becoming weaker, and the Government is now favoring the rich over the middle class by giving things like huge tax breaks, for example.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Not only do these "rich" corporations and individuals make the vast majority of government funded programs possible, without them almost none of the programs so many people have come to rely on, would even be possible.



EXACTLY.  So do you want to see an end to things like public education, roads, and clean water?

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Ever heard the saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? This is a perfect example.



It goes both ways.  The filthy rich need to chip in a little for a country that allows them the opportunity to get so rich.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisiblelittleton
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14588607 - 06/10/11 12:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Ever heard the saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? This is a perfect example.



yea, the hand that feeds us is secretly fucking you over.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: littleton]
    #14588672 - 06/10/11 01:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ummm, no, I hope you folks are high or something. Ok so when you say huge tax break you are really saying is that the feds are letting them keep more of there own money. How is that a bad thing? They may pay somewhat less proportionally than some middle class folks but they pay a much larger amount of taxes dollar wise, and that is only a maybe about paying less percentage wise. They also use a significantly lower amount of social services, like medicare, medicaid, public schools, emergency room visits for "free". They chip in more than there share, everyday, that is why kids get "free" lunch at school, they are why you have paved roadways instead of dirt and gravel ones, they are also the reason you can afford to own a flat screen tv, a laptop, and even nice clothes like Ralph Lauren. How much do you think an average person pays in taxes that has five kids, gets food stamps, rent assistance, and uses Medicare? Oh that is right they do not pay any taxes, they get paid by the government, from the pocket of a "rich" person, to leech from the producers in this country.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14588681 - 06/10/11 01:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh and the U.S. does not allow anyone to be rich, they have to earn it.The only opportunity you are given here is to make your own choices, and those are being quickly diminshed. The people who have made it and work for what they have, could do it anywhere. They would make it anywhere they are allowed to be free, Georgia in Europe is a good example.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14588705 - 06/10/11 01:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://blogs.forbes.com/objectivist/2011/05/06/its-time-to-kill-the-robin-hood-myth/

You folks should read this, maybe you will learn from it. Yaron Brooks is a little more eloquent than I am.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14589147 - 06/10/11 06:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok?

Due to their belief that the rich have more than they need, will not be harmed by the loss, are not deserving of their wealth,  are selfish and so evil, or have done evil to acquire said wealth, are not paying their fair share, pure envy, etc.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14589218 - 06/10/11 07:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
the Government is now favoring the rich over the middle class by giving things like huge tax breaks, for example.




This is a frequently disputed claim.  What do you base this conclusion on?

Further, is a "tax break" bad?  How do you determine what a "tax break" is and how its relevant?

it seems this term is often used dishonestly to frame an ambiguous action in one particular light. i.e. the new tax is represented as a "reduction" and therefore favorable to that class meerly because the prior tax rate was higher.  But how can you assert this action was a favoring of one particulr class without looking at the manner in which the other classes were affected between the two time periods of interest?  It seems a one-sided analysis: with a different time frame you could determine the action to be a "tax increase"

Frankly, it seems people argue implicitly that the status quo is just or morally neutral when it suits them, i.e. when charecterizing a reduction in tax paind by a particlar class in a particular situation, but then ignore this presumption when it doesn't favor them, i.e.: examining the tax rate after the reduction, folks don't give this rate a presumption of normalcy or correctness when inconvieniant. 

It seems then that there must be some justification for the particular time period used to determine how a particular class fared, or else the conclusions must be explicitly bounded to that time frame.  Further, any comparison between different classes must examine both classes and how they were affected over a particular time period.  What it seems Falcon has done is simply examine one class and determine that because they paid less of a particular tax that therefore they are unjustly benefited relative to other classes.  Clearly this is unjustified if true, and Falcon needs to back up his conclusion regardless.


Quote:

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Not only do these "rich" corporations and individuals make the vast majority of government funded programs possible, without them almost none of the programs so many people have come to rely on, would even be possible.



EXACTLY.  So do you want to see an end to things like public education, roads, and clean water?





What does your question have to do with anything?  For your question to be relevant you have to make several presumptions which you've not justified, and therefore the question seems unjustified.


Quote:

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Ever heard the saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? This is a perfect example.



It goes both ways.  The filthy rich need to chip in a little for a country that allows them the opportunity to get so rich.





So what?  This seems to be a straw man argument that dishonestly criticizes a position nobody has taken: that the rich do not need to chip in a little.

When examining the actual issues debated, the question is more difficult, so what could be the justification for making such a conservative and noncontested point unless your trying to dishonestly charecterize your position as this conservative when in reality it is not?

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
So many threads on here have people complaining about the rich getting richer, and the "poor" getting poorer. There is a good reason for that, you keep buying there products and services. If you do not want them to be rich then stop buying things from there companies, they will not threaten you with a gun like the government does when you stop giving them money. Not only do these "rich" corporations and individuals make the vast majority of government funded programs possible, without them almost none of the programs so many people have come to rely on, would even be possible. Ever heard the saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? This is a perfect example.





Its not clear why they do this because generally the people making such arguments cannot justify them, or they rely on unstated and undefended presuppositions: i.e. that a given tax rate is just, that a given class owes some particular thing to another, et cet.

It may be my bias, but it really seems to me that the more liberal posters here cannot justify their economic/taxation policies.  Generally they seem to resort to dishonest arguments to maintain them in the fact of criticism.  I guess we'll see how this thread turns out: perhaps it will be instructive as to this issue and the liberal posters' ability to defend their views.

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Icelander]
    #14589516 - 06/10/11 08:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok?

Due to their belief that the rich have more than they need, will not be harmed by the loss, are not deserving of their wealth,  are selfish and so evil, or have done evil to acquire said wealth, are not paying their fair share, pure envy, etc.



Which begs the question:  why do they feel this way?  Jealousy?  Envy?  Inherent equality?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14589843 - 06/10/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
So many threads on here have people complaining about the rich getting richer, and the "poor" getting poorer. There is a good reason for that, you keep buying there products and services.



Actually, the reason for that is because organized labor is becoming weaker, and the Government is now favoring the rich over the middle class by giving things like huge tax breaks, for example.




The rich pay a disgustingly disproportionate amount of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pay almost nothing at all.
Quote:



Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Not only do these "rich" corporations and individuals make the vast majority of government funded programs possible, without them almost none of the programs so many people have come to rely on, would even be possible.



EXACTLY.  So do you want to see an end to things like public education, roads, and clean water?




Nice straw men.  Roads are a pittance in the budget, clean water costs almost nothing, and yeah, I'm definitely reconsidering any support for public education since they seem to suck really bad at it.  It should also be locally determined at the very least, like most road projects.

The costs of those arguably worthwhile expenses are peanuts compared to the entitlement programs.  Peanuts.
Quote:



Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Ever heard the saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? This is a perfect example.



It goes both ways.  The filthy rich need to chip in a little for a country that allows them the opportunity to get so rich.




Chip in a little?  They already pretty much pay for half of everything.  Then the not so rich pay for the rest.  50% of the tax filers pay nothing.  That doesn't even account for people who don't file for taxes because they have no income, a group that increases more and more every day as the bumocracy hijacks the nation's laws.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
    #14589863 - 06/10/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok?

Due to their belief that the rich have more than they need, will not be harmed by the loss, are not deserving of their wealth,  are selfish and so evil, or have done evil to acquire said wealth, are not paying their fair share, pure envy, etc.



Which begs the question:  why do they feel this way?  Jealousy?  Envy?  Inherent equality?




Fear of growing up and accepting responsibility for their fate.  Which I think is far more pervasive than death anxiety.  As long as they can get the rich to pay for their shit they don't have to ever grab the bull by the horns and take charge of their own lives.


--------------------

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14589930 - 06/10/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok?

Due to their belief that the rich have more than they need, will not be harmed by the loss, are not deserving of their wealth,  are selfish and so evil, or have done evil to acquire said wealth, are not paying their fair share, pure envy, etc.



Which begs the question:  why do they feel this way?  Jealousy?  Envy?  Inherent equality?




Fear of growing up and accepting responsibility for their fate.  Which I think is far more pervasive than death anxiety.  As long as they can get the rich to pay for their shit they don't have to ever grab the bull by the horns and take charge of their own lives.




Which in turn probably hurts the classes exposed to such things far more than the programs benefit them: at least private charity is tempered by the wisdom or the donators and the fidelity of the program- something that isn't neccesarily so with statutory programs that grant entitlements to a particular class.  I recall a debate Thomas Sowell had with some welfare director where he made this charge.  The welfare director, predictably, was talking about the poor unfortunate people whom their program benefits: Sowell claimed they were creating them.  The Director responded: "I don't wish that people fail", to which Sowell said: "No, you just subsidize it". 
*exchange per my recollection

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
    #14589941 - 06/10/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Anyone who supports the wealthy has to be fucked in the mind.

Most people who are flithy rich, are born into it!!!!!!

Yet you guys sit here and say "Damn poor people, they are such losers"

Screw that!

Man, my parents are not only poor but they didn't have any idea that telling me to go to university under the conditions that I took a loan out from some rich fucker, wasn't going to give me a job.

Me and my gal owe over 60 000 together. Our interest accounts for over 50% of the payments.

Its robbery and the wealthy class who controls the media knows it.

Is it my fault for not looking into the fact that a university degree was worthless????

HOW WOULD I HAVE KNOWN ANY DIFFERENT? I was born into a poor and ignorant family.

So fuck that, you all have to be crazy for believing that the rich deserve to keep their money.

Sorry, but its the truth.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14589964 - 06/10/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:hissyfit:

Nice straw man.  Nobody hates the poor, they hate giving money to the poor.

Further, the number of unsupported premises in this rant is quickly approaching an unmanagable figure.


For starters, why don't you defend the claim that a University Degree is worthless?  What is this based on, you studying philosophy or getting a degree in speaking Zulu, and finding, to your shock, that there isn't much of a market for it?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
    #14590052 - 06/10/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok?

Due to their belief that the rich have more than they need, will not be harmed by the loss, are not deserving of their wealth,  are selfish and so evil, or have done evil to acquire said wealth, are not paying their fair share, pure envy, etc.



Which begs the question:  why do they feel this way?  Jealousy?  Envy?  Inherent equality?





IMO they feel this way because they lack the skills or fortitude to be rich.  This could even mean doing illegal things or not caring if others or the environment are hurt by your getting rich. It's basically envy though imo.  Humans by nature are more alike than different emotionally although skills, and fortune may vary greatly.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14590054 - 06/10/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Is it my fault for not looking into the fact that a university degree was worthless????




Why... yes. Yours and yours alone.

The rest of your post is even more laughable.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14590073 - 06/10/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Is it my fault for not looking into the fact that a university degree was worthless????

Of course it is. Life is a struggle to be fit and survive. Do you really think you need to be spoon fed all your life? It's fucking college man.  This is the fault of our culture  imo by not stressing self reliance.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14590406 - 06/10/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Taxes are not theft. No one is forced to pay Federal income taxes, because no one is forced to be an American Citizen. They can move to another country, or live in a pineapple under the sea if they like.

Basic free market principles, bro.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
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(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #14590514 - 06/10/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i cant possibly imagine a civil and democratic society functioning under the concentration of wealth in the US...and its not..as witness the patriot act..torture..the drug war.. lack of infrastructue.. poor education.. etc..."stealing" more from the rich in the form of higher taxes is at the very least a necessary evil.. entirely necessary to preseve the freedom and safety of the average joe on the street...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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