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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Icelander]
    #14630776 - 06/17/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Phred I'm with you all the way on this one and it's not because I'm rich or a businessman.  I've worked at low paying jobs much of my life due to my lack of skills. I admit I used to be bitter and bitch about all of that. Then I figured out that bitching wouldn't change anything and that I had to figure out a way, on the money I was bringing in, to have a decent life. And I have.  Personally I don't want to sacrifice my life to becoming rich and so I won't ever have that. I have something more valuable to me.  I don't bitch. I have a fucking great life and I live on a scale that most humans would die to have.





Yep, and look at one of the alternatives so popular around here: communism.  Under all the existing states or historically existing states I'm aware of it was an offense against the state to not work.  (and by work, they mean "do what we tell you").


You could not retire early, you could not take a chance and open a buisness, or work for stock because you believed in teh buisness but knew they couldn't afford to pay you up front.

This whining is so much more silly percisely because there is no viable alternative remotely superior to capitalism.  People bitch about those with more, and it really seems like naked envy, but capitalism gives you the freedom to do nothing if you so choose.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14631035 - 06/17/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Likewise, the minimum wage could easily be double in most developed countries and there be no negative consequences to both the society and to those wealthy motherfuckers profits.




Clearly you have no business experience.



Who needs business experience?  One can simply look at countries where the minimum wage is double that of the US, such as France and the Netherlands.  What are the negative consequences to society?

Quote:

meams said:
I thought workers were paid their wage?  Which was the value they determined was fair for them to receive in exchange for the work they were contracted to do?



People are forced to accept the "going rate" for a position, whether it's "fair" or not.  That's the nature of the "free" market.

Quote:

Phred said:
As a side note, observe how those claiming "workers should be paid more when the company does better" only ever consider this a one-way street. They never propose the logical corollary: "workers should be paid less when the company does worse".
I can tell you truly I would quite happily have paid my employees more during the good times if they had agreed to accept less in the bad times.



"Never" is a strong word, especially considering I just addressed this in my last post:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I think it all boils down to a debate of opinion on whether corporations should spread profits amongst all the people who contributed to earning them, or whether only the top 1% should get to enjoy more than their base salary when the company does well.



In other words, everyone should get a nominal base salary, which is supplemented by profit sharing when the company does well.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14631088 - 06/17/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Honestly, either way this society will generally accept the 430 times more money being made by the CEO's of the company that gives them a life and opportunity to live.

All the old dudes arguing against us are incapable of seeing the truth about politics.And the ones that aren't are in denial. think about it, its because politics hardly affects them, considering that most of them got jobs that they gained through experience within the amazing economic climate that existed since the end of WWII. They have no idea what the fuck the economy is really like, nor does it matter to them.


Icelander is the only one that says it like it is, but he can't understand economics very well.

The rest, like zappa, are incapable of logical thinking and a waste of time to talk to him; in his mind, he is a self-made man, over confident and bitter that others can't be self made - its just his experience in this amazing economic climate we have had since the 50's that makes him incapable of seeing how fucking hard it is to be a young inexperienced man in this economy.

We on the otherhand are young face a lack of good work experience, unlike them but what they can't yet see, the lack of work experience is due to a different type of economy and a sever downgrading of that economy to add to it. Before, it was easy to pick up a job and learn something for the next job. Now adays jobs have much much more specific requirements especially jobs that work with computer programs.

I'd say fuck it, its a waste of time aguing with them and ultimately were stuck with this shit because people won't realize this until it is to late.


EVER WONDER WHY IT IS THE YOUTH OF THE WORLD THAT ARE TO HEAD OF MOST OF THE PROTESTS WHEN IT COMES TO CORPORATE PROFITS, ETC?

OLDER PEOPLE DON'T CARE, THEY CAN'T FOR MANY REASONS...GIVE IT UP.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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OfflinePhred
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14631092 - 06/17/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Phred: ...but to get you to re-examine your skewed view of the fundamental laws of reality in the business world.

ShroomyJohn: They are only fundamental to the people that believe them.




Sadly, this turns out not to be the case. The laws of the reality are the laws of reality. Those who recognize that fact and are capable of grasping the few exceedingly simple rules of the game have a chance of prospering. Those who fail to recognize this fact (or grasp the rules) have no chance whatsoever.

Quote:

Only of they're making you more profit than what you are paying them for.




Could you rewrite this in English, please?

Quote:

It's like dividends, a company does well, you get paid more.




Wal-Mart doesn't pay dividends. Their profit margins are too slender to pay dividends. Wal-Mart stock is an equity investment, not a revenue stream investment.

Quote:

Phred: In your case, you'll buy the beans from a convenience store who is undercutting the grocer's price.

ShroomyJohn: Maybe you would.  Stop telling me what I do or don't do.




No wonder you're having difficulty making ends meet if you're paying double the going rate for beans and stuff.

Quote:

The tasks are there already.




Actually, no they aren't. In a town too small too support a TV station, there's no task requiring, for example, a Chromakey editor. In a town too small to support any kind of a food store much bigger than a Seven Eleven, there's no task requiring a shelf stocker. No newspaper, no copy-editing tasks to be done. Etc. Etc.

Quote:

You gonna give me some start up capital?




After reading your posts here? Not a hope in hell.

Quote:

How do you suggest starting a business when you're never able to make enough money to ?




So you admit that without someone willing to conjure up a task, then hiring you to perform that task, you'd have no way of supporting yourself at all. Do you think that gives you the right to walk up to the nearest old guy, stick a knife in his ribs, and say, "Hey! Start up a business right now and hire me to do something in it. And while you're at it, make sure you pay me at least double minimum wage!"

But for what it's worth, lots of businesses require extremely small initial capital outlay. Some require no outlay at all.

Quote:

Why should somebody be getting fucked over throughout no fault of heir own?




You have an overly-broad definition of "fucked over". Working a succession of joe jobs in order to put yourself through college while simultaneously enduring the traditional starving student routine is not getting "fucked over", it's the standard way of getting through college for those lacking a scholarship or well-off parents. It's always been that way. Your experience is nothing special, nor is your present penurious financial state a permanent condition.





Phred


--------------------


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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: johnm214]
    #14631162 - 06/17/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ok first let me start by clarifying a few things, when I saw wealth, I mean money you have produced or earned. When I say a proper role of government, I mean what a proper government should be doing, not what our government does, it is nowhere near proper, nor could be without a major overhaul or revolution. When I say money is more important to me than lives I eman just that, because money is only an extension of your life. When you go to work you are trading your life for dollars, so when you are trading a dollar for something, you are in effect trading part of your life for that object or service.

Food assistance, minimum wage, roads, education I could go on and on about these things not being proper roles of government. It would be easier to say what are proper roles. The first is national defense, i.e. the military, we need them for national defense, that way when others try and take what we have or kill our citizens we have people trained and ready to defend us. Second is civil defense, i.e. police, that way when someone attacks you or your property you have someone to protect you and your property, they will also apprehend said criminals and remove them for you. Third is mitigating contract disputes, you would not have to use them, but if you wanted them to resolve a dispute later you need them to be on board. You could easily enter into contract without them, but if so you are own your own if the contract is breached. The first two would be paid for by taxes, it would be an even rate for all those who decided they wanted protection, if you chose not to be a part of this you would not be able to use their services. The latter would be paid for by those entering into contracts with one another that wanted a form of insurance should the deal go south. When I say taxes as they are now, are stealing I mean just that. Most individuals whom pay taxes have money taken from therm to be given to others when they have no say regarding the placement of said funds.

Food assistance, education and health care are not things that fall into these categories, so when you use someones or a corporations money for these it is in effect stealing and an improper use of funds. Are they good things yes, are they the role of government ot provide, no. These things should be left to individuals to provide for themselves. It is not a popular view of opinion, and I know this, most people want things to be provided for them in this country and they do not want to be responsible for themselves. If they did we would not have the current form of government we have. All the thing mentioned above have come about for pretty much one reason, votes. The people in power at the time these things cam about wanted one thing, to remain in power, these programs helped insure that they got the vote. If you steal from a few and give to the many you will remain in power. And those you gave to will applaud you for it, saying you saved them from the big bad rich.

When you start screaming that no one will have health care, food, education, roads and the like, let me remind you, most humans are charitable, because they are selfish. They give to others to feel good, if they did not get some benefit from it they simply would not do it. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are good examples, they give and have given billions in donations, because they are selfish, not because they are selfless as many would have you think, but because they directly benefit from it, either because they feel good for doing so, or they gain favorable light in the court of public opinion. The reasons are not really important, it happens because they want to do it, because it benefits them in some manner.

For those of you who think that if you are paid shit you by shit, you are wrong, many whom buy nothing with dollars they earned buy the best they can, that is what all humans do, they buy the best they can afford. If you cannot afford it now you save for it, either way you do not buy the worst product you can get on purpose, you by the best.

Hiring others instead of giving you raises? Sorry but once again you are wrong, if they higher others at a lower rate it is because you did not want to work for that rate of pay, others did, and the profitability of the company is at stake. A company pays whatever they can to keep employees happy and still earn a profit. Without profit no one makes any money, especially not the company.

Insurance through a company is a benefit, that should be completely voluntary, for them to decide if it is worth having or not. If you require insurance then only work for companies that provide it, please do not say you cannot find one to give you the hours, OSI provides insurance to all employees after one year if they are willing to pay for some of it. Regardless of hours worked, and they are one of the largest employers in the nation, with the vast majority being part timers. Shroomy when you say that a company forces you to clock out at 39:59, you should call the police, no one has the right to use force against you in this situation. Unless you are not working more than 39:59, if that is a requirement for the job and you need 40, quit. Government regulations saying if you work 40 you get benefits is the main reason companies do not want you working 40 hours. Because the feds say if you let them work you will have to pay more money than they can earn the company. Still loving the feds?

Shroomy when you said people back in the day worked over 40 without overtime and this was a a bad thing, think about that for just a minute. They worked voluntarily for that extra time to earn more wealth for themselves to enjoy how they saw fit. Be it to spend on their family, friends, whores, drugs or drink, the reason is irrelevant, they did so of their own volition so they could have more to spend. This is a good thing and many do it now, for the same reasons. So you think it is bad to have a choice in how much you can earn with a company? Just like minimum wage, overtime laws stifle productivity, I would personally love to be able to work sixty hours a week with my primary employer for no overtime, why? Because I could get the hours I want, produce the wealth I require to fuel my needs and all without having to get secondary employment. However I cannot, due to labor laws. It is easier and less expensive due to government regulation to higher someone else to work those 20 hours  that I would gladly do for the same rate. Minimum wage eliminates jobs in the same manner, instead of paying two people $5 an hour they pay one $3 an hour to do the same work. Because if not they get fined and are not allowed to continue operating.

Fuel prices are also largely dependent on government regulation, we have more than enough oil reserves to supply our country at a much lower rate than what we currently pay. Yet the feds say it is not allowed, we must not disturb the environment they say. However, if we could drill for the fuels under our lands the price would be much, much less than the current market prices.

As far as upper level employees go, they do not get paid more because they do less, they get paid more because they do more. A manager may only tell people what to do in his job, this is rarely all they do, but even if they did, they get paid more because they are better at planning and allocating resources than the other people working under him. Like when Falcon says that his VP had nothing to do with the projects he worked on, he is wrong. The VP made those jobs possible, either by getting the contracts himself or having the right people on the job at the right time. Without him no work would have been coming in and they would have shut the doors. Then once again no one is making money.

Giving a "tax break" is not an entitlement nor is it stealing, it is allowing the rightful owner of said wealth to control the expenditure of said wealth.

Falcon you say that we could pay for S.S. by taxing those whom make over 106000 more, but you seem to miss the point that it is still stealing. They are being threatened with the loss of freedom or life if they do not pay money into a fund, for their own supposed benefit, for the well being of others. Because they will never get all of that money back, even if they live to 115. S.S. is a ponzi, just like medicare and medicaid, please look up the definition of ponzi and tell me how they are not.

Also Shroomy, if you worked with the tenacity and voraciousness you attack others for the wealth they have produced and for them not sharing it, then you would be pretty well off right now. You should try sublimating that energy sometime, it will benefit you tremendously.

Greed is good, to quote Gorden Gekko, greed is why you learn, because you want to know more than the next guy, it is why you save instead of squander, so that you can buy that new autoclave or car, it is why you work in general, so you can have something instead of nothing. Selfishness is a virtue, since when is caring for ones self and doing the best you can for yourself a bad thing? the meaning of the word has been perverted by those whom wish to get more for less, just as money is corrupted by those whom do not understand its full value. Money is the measure of a mans wealth, you do not need to have 100 billion to be wealthy, you only need enough to sustain your lifestyle. A rational human would know that you cannot produce more than you consume, you would know that money is not a static thing to be looted or pillaged from one and given to another. You would know that it is produced, not taken. Money corrupts no one, however people do corrupt their money, they spend it freely and without regard, thinking they can get more later for little to no effort on their part. You should think of this the next time you get a paycheck.

When you say you cannot start a business because you do not have the funds, you are saying that it is not worth it to you for your time and effort to get it going with what you have. I have stated several examples before, but Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban are all good examples of those whom came from nothing, and did whatever they could to produce wealth for their own benefit, to become what they are today. they did not say, oh I do not have the funds, they said what can I do to earn the funds. Just as countless have done before them.

I for one will never rely on others for my well being, I will work any job anytime to produce wealth for myself and continue my life. I will never complain about the lack of pay, I will learn a new trade, or work longer and harder to get what I need. When tax time comes, I will right my check out, with much hatred for those whom will be receiving it. Not because they have less, but because they are ok with living on my dime. When I see a person at the store i will begrudge them when they buy brand name hot dogs, Gatorade, sweets, and the like with the food stamps myself and others like me pay for. When I am at doctors, paying cash and I see you break out a Medicare card, I will sneer at you, not because you needed help, but you chose to get help with the threat of force against those whom produce. When you say that our government does not use force against those whom produce, look only at the persons in prison for not paying taxes to the brute moocher in Washington with his hand out. For those of you whom know they value of a dollar and a hard days work I applaud you, their are not many of us left, I only hope that someday soon we can all unite to put an end of this legalized treachery. Until that day, I wish you all well in your endeavors, be they good or bad, at least you had the balls to try, because a failure, even if it is an expensive one, is only a payment for the lessons you have learned this time. Because there is always tomorrow.

Oh yeah Chuang, big ups on knowing that the only power the feds have is a gun.


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Icelander]
    #14631704 - 06/18/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah why is that?  How come you take this all so personally and have such a hard time with others having differing views than you do?  Huh, how come? Tell us, cause we want to know?

that's what's really important here imo. 





i don't have any problem with ppl having different views. i have a problem with the way we all go about talking about our views. to the point where i called a user a "fucking idiot" thinking i would get banned for at least 30 days. even since then, i have seen the conversation move no-where, and ppl con't to be rude to each other, only more politely then i was in the post i to earlier mentioned. users often don't even address points that some one makes as an example. so again, i have no issue with ppl having different views or beliefs them me, i have many atheist friends for example, i even have a pagan friend, and don't get along with most christens. the issue i have is the way we go about talking about these these views and beliefs. or, some times, avoid talking about them.


--------------------
:willynilly:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14631705 - 06/18/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:

Phred said:
I'll stop until I get an answer from you regarding Wal-Mart.



Because you have set up a trap for me when I do?



Yes it's a trap.  Walmart's success is based on its low prices.  Low prices are good for consumers.  If you double employee salaries, you'd lose your competitive advantage, and consumers lose their low prices.

Get it?

Now what happens next?  Stores that used to pay people decent wages now go out of business.  People that lose their retail jobs are now forced to work at Walmart for less, because the alternative is no job.

At least it's still good for people making normal wages, right?  Yes, until a competitor of your company decides to copy the Walmart model, and either outsources jobs to China or forces huge pay cuts on employees.  That either puts your company out of business, or forces you to work for less.

This process continues until there is no middle class left.  Welcome to the Republican vision of America.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: broken]
    #14631727 - 06/18/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
users often don't even address points that some one makes as an example.





Yeah, but people play that one both ways.  Depending on who made the point, they often accuse me of trying to 'dominate them' or 'talk over' them when I respond to every point they make.

I agree with you, and think people who are offended that someone would reply to something they post is ridiculous, but it does go both ways.

Often its the same people who have break downs if they know someone disagrees with them though, so probably not the people you most want to please.

As for why people do this, same old issues of requiring validation and dominance. I would assume they have issues with self esteem or social approval and become angry when people don't give them the validation they crave.  The dissonance between their expectations and reality results in a hissyfit.


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: johnm214]
    #14631791 - 06/18/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
users often don't even address points that some one makes as an example.





Yeah, but people play that one both ways....

...people who are offended that someone would reply to something they post is ridiculous, but it does go both ways....






did i indicate in anyway only a few users where doing this? my statement was made at everyone.


--------------------
:willynilly:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14632321 - 06/18/11 05:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Icelander is the only one that says it like it is, but he can't understand economics very well. (does anyone completely understand world economics?)

"Doesn't understand"  I could if I put the effort.  I understand just enough to make a workable and good life for myself and as I said that's all the time I want to give to that.

I look at things from the perspective of how they are and not how I want them to be. I would love for things to operate differently on a fundamental (nature) level then they do but that's not going to happen imo. Humans have a psychology that really won't allow for much change beyond what we now have imo and studies.  So what we have in this country may be the best of all possible worlds and that's not to say another democratic country does not excel us in certain areas. 

I was lucky to grow up in very good economic times that is true.  That's life but you might remember that when I was just starting out in the 70s there was some big downturns in the economy as well but the fact is I really don't remember it at all now or at the time because I got a job as a bag boy anyway and at $1.80 per hour was feeling on top of the world.  Later when the Union won an increase our minimum wage I was let go. (I was pretty excited at first:lol:)  Believe it or not that's the truth.  I went out and found another job.  Minimum wage again and I was back on top of the world.  But I didn't need much at that age.

I do think it's much harder to find even some entry level jobs right now.  But I know if I could afford a decent garage sale lawn mower I could make great money  if I gave a really good deal, did good work and kept my overhead low.  I'm looking for that guy btw cause I'm tired of mowing this big lawn.  I offered my friends son the job cause he's completely broke and living at home and he told me he wouldn't touch it for less than $15 an hour and he's just turned 16. I told him to fuck off and be a mooch off his single parent mom who is struggling to raise him up.  Not his fault really. She created that mind set in him.

Anyway I know it's hard but nature is hard and the best at surviving will survive the best and that is what I know  and that is what I believe. I also see, a weakening of our people as a whole physically and mentally and emotionally, due to the attitude that the playing field must be level down to the bottom of the line.  This is killing us imo and the future doesn't look bright for America imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/18/11 06:06 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14632334 - 06/18/11 05:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Likewise, the minimum wage could easily be double in most developed countries and there be no negative consequences to both the society and to those wealthy motherfuckers profits.




Clearly you have no business experience.



Who needs business experience?  One can simply look at countries where the minimum wage is double that of the US, such as France and the Netherlands.  What are the negative consequences to society?




Neither of those countries has a minimum wage that is double that of the US. Further, they are close to broke.


France


Netherlands


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14634128 - 06/18/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
One can simply look at countries where the minimum wage is double that of the US, such as France and the Netherlands.  What are the negative consequences to society?




Neither of those countries has a minimum wage that is double that of the US.



The minimum wage in both of those countries is around $13/hr (the actual rate is in Euros, so the amount in dollars varies depending on exchange rate).  This is fairly close to double, and workers also get a minimum of 30 paid holidays per year.  However, if you prefer, I'll ask my statement again as follows:

"One can simply look at countries where the minimum wage is almost double that of the US, such as France and the Netherlands.  What are the negative consequences to society?"

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Further, they are close to broke.


France


Netherlands



I didn't see anything in either one of those articles saying that minimum wage had ANYTHING to do with the debt problems.

Sorry.  :bondage:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14634375 - 06/18/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You're right. I'm not sure where I meant to go with those links, but I didn't wind up there.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/19/11 04:57 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14634628 - 06/18/11 05:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:hatsoff:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14637247 - 06/19/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Phred: ...but to get you to re-examine your skewed view of the fundamental laws of reality in the business world.

ShroomyJohn: They are only fundamental to the people that believe them.




Sadly, this turns out not to be the case. The laws of the reality are the laws of reality. Those who recognize that fact and are capable of grasping the few exceedingly simple rules of the game have a chance of prospering. Those who fail to recognize this fact (or grasp the rules) have no chance whatsoever.

Quote:

Only of they're making you more profit than what you are paying them for.




Could you rewrite this in English, please?

Quote:

It's like dividends, a company does well, you get paid more.




Wal-Mart doesn't pay dividends. Their profit margins are too slender to pay dividends. Wal-Mart stock is an equity investment, not a revenue stream investment.

Quote:

Phred: In your case, you'll buy the beans from a convenience store who is undercutting the grocer's price.

ShroomyJohn: Maybe you would.  Stop telling me what I do or don't do.




No wonder you're having difficulty making ends meet if you're paying double the going rate for beans and stuff.

Quote:

The tasks are there already.




Actually, no they aren't. In a town too small too support a TV station, there's no task requiring, for example, a Chromakey editor. In a town too small to support any kind of a food store much bigger than a Seven Eleven, there's no task requiring a shelf stocker. No newspaper, no copy-editing tasks to be done. Etc. Etc.

Quote:

You gonna give me some start up capital?




After reading your posts here? Not a hope in hell.

Quote:

How do you suggest starting a business when you're never able to make enough money to ?




So you admit that without someone willing to conjure up a task, then hiring you to perform that task, you'd have no way of supporting yourself at all. Do you think that gives you the right to walk up to the nearest old guy, stick a knife in his ribs, and say, "Hey! Start up a business right now and hire me to do something in it. And while you're at it, make sure you pay me at least double minimum wage!"

But for what it's worth, lots of businesses require extremely small initial capital outlay. Some require no outlay at all.

Quote:

Why should somebody be getting fucked over throughout no fault of heir own?




You have an overly-broad definition of "fucked over". Working a succession of joe jobs in order to put yourself through college while simultaneously enduring the traditional starving student routine is not getting "fucked over", it's the standard way of getting through college for those lacking a scholarship or well-off parents. It's always been that way. Your experience is nothing special, nor is your present penurious financial state a permanent condition.





Phred




"You're wrong and I'm right since you're I'm school you deserve to not get paid for shit"  mind coming up with an actual arugument that doesn't involve bringing my perceived intelligence into play?
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Honestly, either way this society will generally accept the 430 times more money being made by the CEO's of the company that gives them a life and opportunity to live.

All the old dudes arguing against us are incapable of seeing the truth about politics.And the ones that aren't are in denial. think about it, its because politics hardly affects them, considering that most of them got jobs that they gained through experience within the amazing economic climate that existed since the end of WWII. They have no idea what the fuck the economy is really like, nor does it matter to them.


Icelander is the only one that says it like it is, but he can't understand economics very well.

The rest, like zappa, are incapable of logical thinking and a waste of time to talk to him; in his mind, he is a self-made man, over confident and bitter that others can't be self made - its just his experience in this amazing economic climate we have had since the 50's that makes him incapable of seeing how fucking hard it is to be a young inexperienced man in this economy.

We on the otherhand are young face a lack of good work experience, unlike them but what they can't yet see, the lack of work experience is due to a different type of economy and a sever downgrading of that economy to add to it. Before, it was easy to pick up a job and learn something for the next job. Now adays jobs have much much more specific requirements especially jobs that work with computer programs.

I'd say fuck it, its a waste of time aguing with them and ultimately were stuck with this shit because people won't realize this until it is to late.


EVER WONDER WHY IT IS THE YOUTH OF THE WORLD THAT ARE TO HEAD OF MOST OF THE PROTESTS WHEN IT COMES TO CORPORATE PROFITS, ETC?

OLDER PEOPLE DON'T CARE, THEY CAN'T FOR MANY REASONS...GIVE IT UP.





I think this post just about sums it all up for this thread.


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14637287 - 06/19/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)



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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14637318 - 06/19/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban


All great examples of what privlidged lifestyles, being smart, and economic bubbles can do for you... or a combination of any of the 3


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14637341 - 06/19/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Fuel prices are also largely dependent on government regulation, we have more than enough oil reserves to supply our country at a much lower rate than what we currently pay. Yet the feds say it is not allowed, we must not disturb the environment they say. However, if we could drill for the fuels under our lands the price would be much, much less than the current market prices.


Wanna know what would make gas less expensive? More regulation of futures commodities speculators.  We have plenty of foreign supply, and if we were to start a new well in the USA today of would be years before the first gallon of gas would make it to the consumer.  Nothing I'm that scenario would bring gas prices down as much as more.government regulation


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14637354 - 06/19/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Shroomy when you said people back in the day worked over 40 without overtime and this was a a bad thing, think about that for just a minute. They worked voluntarily for that extra time to earn more wealth for themselves to enjoy how they saw fit. Be it to spend on their family, friends, whores, drugs or drink, the reason is irrelevant, they did so of their own volition so they could have more to spend. This is a good thing and many do it now, for the same reasons. So you think it is bad to have a choice in how much you can earn with a company? Just like minimum wage, overtime laws stifle productivity, I would personally love to be able to work sixty hours a week with my primary employer for no overtime, why? Because I could get the hours I want, produce the wealth I require to fuel my needs and all without having to get secondary employment. However I cannot, due to labor laws. It is easier and less expensive due to government regulation to higher someone else to work those 20 hours that I would gladly do for the same rate. Minimum wage eliminates jobs in the same manner, instead of paying two people $5 an hour they pay one $3 an hour to do the same work. Because if not they get fined and are not allowed to continue operating.



Except they weren't amassing any wealth be cause they weren't getting paid for shit


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14637361 - 06/19/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Also Shroomy, if you worked with the tenacity and voraciousness you attack others for the wealth they have produced and for them not sharing it, then you would be pretty well off right now. You should try sublimating that energy sometime, it will benefit you tremendously.


Once again people telling me what I do or don't do based on my argument in this thread... real intelligent


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