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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14615494 - 06/15/11 01:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Phred said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I meant exactly what I said, but I'll also agree with what you thought I meant to say.
So your claim was referring to the federal government rather than individual citizens or state governments? Wow. Just..... wow. No wonder you make the ridiculous claims you do. You have the fundamental idea of American government exactly 180 degrees out of whack.
The constitution of the United States of America limits federal government power. It makes it very clear that the only functions it authorizes the federal government to perform are the specifically listed functions. This is the meaning of the term "enumerated". In other words, the feds may do only what the Constitution says they may do. If the Constitution does not list a particular function the feds may do, then they may not do it, no matter how many people may want them to. By definition, if the feds choose to do such a function they are acting unconstitutionally.
Do you think you've just told me anything I don't know? No, you haven't. Yet you called my claim "ridiculous" and "exactly 180 degrees out of whack" and yet you haven't even disproven my statement.
Let me repeat everything again for you:
- I said bailouts were not unconstitutional. - I said "Article one, Section eight, "Powers of Congress" states that the Congress shall have the power to provide for the general welfare of the United States." - I agreed that "if the Constitution does not forbid the federal government to do some particular thing, then the federal government may do it without acting unconstitutionally"
First of all, it's not even possible for the last statement above to be wrong no matter how little I know about the constitution, because it is correct by its very definition (you'll get it if you reread it).
However, I do understand the Constitution quite well, and yes, I understand that if something is not enumerated in the Constitution, then it IS unconstitutional. However, general welfare IS enumerated, and as ChuangTzu pointed out it "allows the federal government to spend tax money on stuff that regards the national welfare"
Sorry Phred.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/15/11 01:46 AM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14615525 - 06/15/11 01:41 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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ShroomyJohn said: I'm probably just gonna leave after I say this: if we weren't 14trillion dollars in dollars in debt I'd agree with some of what of prison Zappa and liarsonofgilt are saying. Nobody has asked me what any other pa of my economic beliefs are because were only talking by taxes here. We need to be making HUGE CUTS in government programs I agree. I don't think that this should be at the cost of of education or the sick or the unintelligent (some people are just born stupid). If your sick, you shouldn't have to not go to a doctor and possibly die from something serious(sounds like the 1500s )that could have been treated by a seriously overpriced pill while the people making that pill are getting filthy fucking rich. Bernie Sanders is on the same page as I am. So much money would be saved. I wonder what our defense budget would be if we split it in two and called one group offense and one group defense.... then cut the one that doesn't make sense... you need to bring jobs back to America, we need to have people making money. You can't just cut cut cut and expect to get anywhere if you then choose to cut taxes. That's like trying to save money on the electric bill by heating your house with your oven instead of your heating system. Or trying to save money by keeping your lights off more, but tlrefuse to switch to cfl bulbs. Taxes need to be raised on the absolutely only people that can afford it. I might not agree with it in principle but its the only chance to get out of such a huge hole. You don't think that wouldn't go down as some of the most American shit that's ever gone down in history? It can get worse though and the only way that's going to happen is if we keep spending. 14 trillion dollars is not going away by simply cutting, and even keeping taxes the same. Off topic... but if anybody is fooled by pawlently please look at how he "solved" Minnesota's budget with his "no new taxes" pledge. We need to raise income from every possible outlet that will serve the most good for the most amount of people. There are ways to write tax codes that would keep small business in business, keep families in their houses, and the needlessly sick from suffering(I don't have the skill because probably some attack on my precieved intelligence would be coming after saying this). Its not one person at the top getting rich, if it were we wouldn't be in this situation, its a bunch of jealous guys right under them that wants what he has so they rig it up so they get a slice and so on until they're just not quite important enough to get in that bubble. An exclusion of those they used to used to be. These are the guys running the shots in the "conservative party" and I put that in quotes because they are just as radical as the liberals. There is no logic in either side which is why I consider myself about as fiscally moderate as it gets
I'm with you john.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14615578 - 06/15/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, its cool, you're free to say what you feel, I'm just commenting on the fact that moderators don't necessarily know what's going on if someone doesn't tell them.
If you don't want to report the matter, that's fine, but don't expect phred or prisoner to necessarily see it, either.
I think the moderating is pretty fair on this site, but that is one weakness: if the moderator only sees one particular side of an ongoing issue, they might get a tilted view fo what's occurring.
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broken
455 member(s)



Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 14,063
Loc: fuckyeah!
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: johnm214]
#14615604 - 06/15/11 02:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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shit man, Phed insulted me too, and he's the one who gave me warning/wanted to ban me.
whatev's i'm a big boy, i can take it.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14615642 - 06/15/11 02:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think theres a difference between "fucking idiot" and "olg guy"
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broken
455 member(s)



Registered: 09/07/10
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14615657 - 06/15/11 02:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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dood, don't even. both comments are an insult to the other's intelligence.
....besides, i'm not going to blow the whistle and be a pussy!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14615770 - 06/15/11 03:34 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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closed veil said: dood, don't even. both comments are an insult to the other's intelligence.
....besides, i'm not going to blow the whistle and be a pussy!
I actually am an old guy. I see nothing wrong with that phrase.
To compare (or attempt to) compare "old guy" with "fucking idiot" is absurd.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14616031 - 06/15/11 06:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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closed veil said: ....besides, i'm not going to blow the whistle and be a pussy!
fuck that noise. toot toot :whistleblower:
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14616260 - 06/15/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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closed veil said: i just think it's unfair that i got a warning, and the mod wanted to ban me outright, for calling someone a "fucking idiot" and yet you will get away with saying:
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Icelander said: Thought you'd be smarter for being such an old guy.
other then my use of profanity what's the diff?
Maybe cause I was making a joke and you were being nasty. Calling you an old guy was referring to the pic you posted as anyone could tell. I joke around a lot but I try not to flame people directly as per forum rules.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (06/15/11 08:22 AM)
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broken
455 member(s)



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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14616823 - 06/15/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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u sir, are the one being absurd.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14616904 - 06/15/11 11:04 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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closed veil said: u sir, are the one being absurd.
Right.
What a well thought out and coherent rebuttal.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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PileusSonofGalt
PhungiPharmer


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14616963 - 06/15/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms said:
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closed veil said: u sir, are the one being absurd.
Right.
What a well thought out and coherent rebuttal.
I bet it took him hours to write that masterpiece.
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broken
455 member(s)



Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 14,063
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Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
#14617263 - 06/15/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: broken]
#14617973 - 06/15/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't have time to read all the posts but why is it that when the rich pay taxes it is stealing, when others do, it is their duty. I remember when I was in Iraq, we were constantly reminded that it was a HONOR and a PRIVILEGE to DIE for our country, But it is a BURDEN for the rich to pay taxes to the country. At the time I would have gladly changed places with the rich. I would have loved to see them bitch then, I wonder if it still would have been a privilege? Why is it that the rich always seemed to be able to circumvent the draft, or if they were drafted they always managed to obtain a cushy position far from any actual armed combat?
Steal a six pack from the grocery store and spend years in jail, steal hundreds of millions and ruin the lives of investors, use your political influence which you have bought and paid for and get off scott free, or on the extremely rare occasion, get placed in a comfortable "white collar" prison with tennis courts and yoga classes. The trade offs don't seem to be so bad when considering the influence associated with extreme wealth.
Why is OK for the rich to steal from the extreme poor? In my state the governor passed legislation to give corporations another 2 Billion in tax breaks. How does a state pay for this? Easy just cut funding to schools, cut unemployment benefits, and enact new taxes on the retired. Yes, I'm sure corps couldn't survive without breaks paid for by the elderly on fixed incomes, and the unemployed. As a matter of fact the repubs have passed legislation cutting the unemployment benefits to pay for tax breaks for the ultra rich. Who better to pay for their tax breaks than those that cannot find work, and ultimately have their only lifeline, which was paid for THEM while they were working, given to the corps. I know the bankers which have given themselves BILLIONS in bonuses must be starving without taking unemployment benefits from the impoverished. They are flat out stealing from the poor. At least when the gov. has stolen from the SS fund they retirees still got their money, when they gave these tax breaks to the corps, the unemployed got jack shit. Their money was stolen from them and given to the rich.
BTW the corporations don't pay for all the roads and social programs in this country, and no we aren't biting the hand that feeds us. As I have previously stated of the total revenue collected by the federal government, ONLY 7%, yes seven percent is collected from corporations. Also, two thirds, (67%) of all corporations pay NO TAXES AT ALL. NONE. The common misconception that the corps are paying everything while us peons are non paying parasitical leaches is completely false. Do you know any people that made 14 BILLION last year and paid no taxes? Not only did GE pay nothing, they actually got millions back. Sounds like one hell of a return for paying off your congressman.
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ShroomyJohn
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Registered: 09/13/10
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Therian]
#14618059 - 06/15/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Therian said: I don't have time to read all the posts but why is it that when the rich pay taxes it is stealing, when others do, it is their duty. I remember when I was in Iraq, we were constantly reminded that it was a HONOR and a PRIVILEGE to DIE for our country, But it is a BURDEN for the rich to pay taxes to the country. At the time I would have gladly changed places with the rich. I would have loved to see them bitch then, I wonder if it still would have been a privilege? Why is it that the rich always seemed to be able to circumvent the draft, or if they were drafted they always managed to obtain a cushy position far from any actual armed combat?
Steal a six pack from the grocery store and spend years in jail, steal hundreds of millions and ruin the lives of investors, use your political influence which you have bought and paid for and get off scott free, or on the extremely rare occasion, get placed in a comfortable "white collar" prison with tennis courts and yoga classes. The trade offs don't seem to be so bad when considering the influence associated with extreme wealth.
Why is OK for the rich to steal from the extreme poor? In my state the governor passed legislation to give corporations another 2 Billion in tax breaks. How does a state pay for this? Easy just cut funding to schools, cut unemployment benefits, and enact new taxes on the retired. Yes, I'm sure corps couldn't survive without breaks paid for by the elderly on fixed incomes, and the unemployed. As a matter of fact the repubs have passed legislation cutting the unemployment benefits to pay for tax breaks for the ultra rich. Who better to pay for their tax breaks than those that cannot find work, and ultimately have their only lifeline, which was paid for THEM while they were working, given to the corps. I know the bankers which have given themselves BILLIONS in bonuses must be starving without taking unemployment benefits from the impoverished. They are flat out stealing from the poor. At least when the gov. has stolen from the SS fund they retirees still got their money, when they gave these tax breaks to the corps, the unemployed got jack shit. Their money was stolen from them and given to the rich.
BTW the corporations don't pay for all the roads and social programs in this country, and no we aren't biting the hand that feeds us. As I have previously stated of the total revenue collected by the federal government, ONLY 7%, yes seven percent is collected from corporations. Also, two thirds, (67%) of all corporations pay NO TAXES AT ALL. NONE. The common misconception that the corps are paying everything while us peons are non paying parasitical leaches is completely false. Do you know any people that made 14 BILLION last year and paid no taxes? Not only did GE pay nothing, they actually got millions back. Sounds like one hell of a return for paying off your congressman.
Nah dude you're wrong. What makes you think ill believe any of that? Now let me twist your words into something that wasn't said. Dumbass.
Edited by johnm214 (06/16/11 03:43 AM)
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14618284 - 06/15/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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ShroomyJohn said: Nah dude you're wrong.
Lemme guess..... DEMOCRAT!
icould tell by your sound debate skills
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ShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
#14618405 - 06/15/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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meams said:
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ShroomyJohn said: Nah dude you're wrong.
Lemme guess..... DEMOCRAT!
icould tell by your sound debate skills
Quote:
meams Your head is full of crazy ideas. Sadly, you're not very good at expressing them in a manner that lends itself well to a proper discussion. Personal attacks are a no-no. Attack ideas, my friend. n00b.
Oh the irony. Did you even read what I quoted. Please tell me that was sarcasm, because no matter how hard I try I can't put sarcasm into such utterances
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Therian
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Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
#14618414 - 06/15/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nah dude you're wrong. What makes you think ill believe any of that? Now let me twist your words into something that wasn't said. Dumbass.
Care to elaborate boy genius? What exactly am I wrong about? Yes, why don't you twist my words, like I do your mothers nipples. She tells me if I twist counter-clockwise it will make her infected gutter whore hole tighter. Of course she lied, why did I ever believe her? P.S. tell her thanks for the crabs! Dumbass!
Moderator edit: Please do not insult other forum members. This is prohibited by the rules.
-Johnm214
Edited by johnm214 (06/15/11 04:38 PM)
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ShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Therian]
#14618427 - 06/15/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was agreeing with you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Therian]
#14618498 - 06/15/11 04:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said:
Quote:
Nah dude you're wrong. What makes you think ill believe any of that? Now let me twist your words into something that wasn't said. Dumbass.
Care to elaborate boy genius? What exactly am I wrong about? Yes, why don't you twist my words, like I do your mothers nipples. She tells me if I twist counter-clockwise it will make her infected gutter whore hole tighter. Of course she lied, why did I ever believe her? P.S. tell her thanks for the crabs! Dumbass!
Moderator edit: Please do not insult other forum members. This is prohibited by the rules.
-Johnm214
It's a good thing this forum doesn't have moderators.
Who have balls I mean.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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