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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Icelander]
#14588022 - 06/09/11 10:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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A christian could be in war though yes? Start running into paradoxes...turn the other cheek sure...but one must also render unto Cesar what is his. Which in wartime could very well be your physical body.
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14588030 - 06/09/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Turn the other cheek is a metaphor. Jesus meant that you never fight back. If someone comes to shoot you, you let them. And if someone comes to crucify you, you let them.
And he let someone crucify him, no? At least Jesus wasn't a hypocrite like many of his followers. I'll give him that.
So I'll ask you again. How do you reconcile Jesus' (god's) teachings with your stated refusal to follow those teachings?
Quote:
I am completely justified in defending my own life (like held at gunpoint in a home invasion) from be taken, or my families....this of course is a last resort.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Icelander]
#14588692 - 06/10/11 01:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Not really, seriously.
I was brought up a Christian and have seen the damage it can do to humans. I respond this way no matter who is posting as I'm trying to point out the logical flaws in this belief system. Most people are programmed into it as children and those that manage to break free have a hard time convincing these programs to let go. I speak here from experience. I'm doing what I can to help. Some people helped me at one time and I'm returning the favor. You get to believe whatever you want and more power to you. I'm posting for those that want to be free of it or who are at least considering alternatives.
I 'detached' from the Christian worldview when I was 17, but I held onto 'what if it's true', 'maybe I'm wrong', for many years. I have what I consider to be exceptionally loving family members, so there wasn't the obvious dichotomy between the practice and the preach, not that they are preachy at all. I've spent many years studying the world, slowly chipping away at the ingrained assumptions that come from growing up in a modern Christian household, and culture. Philosophically I'm still agnostic, but I can more easily identify with the atheist viewpoint now, after over 20 years of thought/deprogramming.
And I'm pissed I've been paying kosher taxes this whole time!
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Rahz]
#14589133 - 06/10/11 05:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is a good example of how, even in less difficult conditions, how time consuming it is to remove these programs. This is why I believe they are blatantly or subtly fear based.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Icelander]
#14589181 - 06/10/11 06:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I did, its not pretty.. in the Marine Corps infantry
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14589228 - 06/10/11 07:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I dont agree with your interpretation of the Bible.
Jesus was speaking figuratively.
...and yes, he was talking about a back-hand slap in the face.....this was the supreme insult in first-century Judaism. It was an attack on ones dignity ----------not ones physical safety
Ever read John 2:13-16...
"The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. He told those who were selling the doves, "Take these things out of here! Stop making my Father's house a marketplace!"
Edited by SirTripAlot (06/10/11 07:16 AM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, you shall have no other gods before me. Um, no. I was NOT released as a slave from Egypt. How is this germane to my life?
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Can I still watch American Idol?
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. So I should modify the behavior of my grandparents? 
E. Coli was found in Germane sprouts. A. Idol shall be watched religiously 3rd and 4th generation finally wised up If you can change the behavior of dead folks (you are old man) Then you have my attention.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14589367 - 06/10/11 08:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I did, its not pretty.. in the Marine Corps infantry
I see you are prone to making weird lifestyle choices. 
So tell me, if you saw real battle, what would happen if you turned your other cheek to a serious enemy? Would he slap you or blow your head off?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Icelander]
#14589712 - 06/10/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
This is a good example of how, even in less difficult conditions, how time consuming it is to remove these programs.
This is why I am so happy that I acknowledged the inconsistency early on. However, being at a fundamental baptist school where Christianity was talked about constantly still lead to consistent doubt in my own beliefs.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: 4896744]
#14589796 - 06/10/11 10:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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amen to that
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14590031 - 06/10/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Jesus was speaking figuratively.
...and yes, he was talking about a back-hand slap in the face
If he was speaking figuratively when he said "turn the other cheek", then why did he act it out literally when he calmly walked out to be crucified after the last supper, knowing full well exactly what was coming?
If he didn't mean it, he would have fought back, or run, or anything but let himself be passively lead to slaughter.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Diploid]
#14590199 - 06/10/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well , he knew of the 'prophecies' and was the only one of several hundred 'Messiahs' that had the balls to follow them to the bitter end.
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Posts: 40,372
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14590894 - 06/10/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I dont agree with your interpretation of the Bible.
Don't you understand that there are thousands, or perhaps even millions of interpretations of the Bible? Something that is so vague and open to interpretation should not be used as a moral compass, it can be used to justify anything..Jesus fucking Christ, get a clue.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Diploid]
#14591012 - 06/10/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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-disclaimer-
I am not trying to convert or be evangelical in the below response, I am answering a question from the Moderator
He did act it out...while he was walking to the actual crufiction:
In Matthew 26:67 Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, "Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?"
-but-
your assertion is that he would have brought up arms to prevent his execution? (given my other view of defending my own personal life)
Here of course is one of the central tenants of Christianity...the death of Christ to not only fulfill previous prophecies (Zechariah 12:10,Isaiah 53:12) but also die for sins of man. (here again, I cannot prove my faith...Im being asked what a religious question)
Needless to say, there were two other men ....I not sure if they struggled, or tried to bring up arms against their ending. In today's modern world, do felons going in for a lethal injection hop up on the table or are they manhandled? Never seen it...cant say for sure. Maybe there are both instances? Jesus came down in the form of a man, so to equate all human behavor to His, in not compatable (agian, in my faith)
The reasons why I believe that I can defend my own life(and not defy God, per Diploids assertion) up to the use of deadly force, is that: I dont have any prophecies to fulfill, and I'm not dying for others people sins.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Poid]
#14591024 - 06/10/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am aware of the numerous interpretations of the Bible and the many denominations. Tell me, what led you to state that I wasn't?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Last seen: 29 minutes
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Icelander]
#14591053 - 06/10/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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While in the Corps, there were times I was far away from my Faith, and there was much more than slaps going on.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Poid]
#14591069 - 06/10/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Because you don't seem capable of understanding this:
Quote:
Poid said: Something that is so vague and open to interpretation should not be used as a moral compass, it can be used to justify anything..Jesus fucking Christ, get a clue. 
Do you honestly think that your personal interpretation is the right one? Don't you think that everybody with an interpretation thinks theirs is the right one?
How fucking special do you think you are?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14591083 - 06/10/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: The reasons why I believe that I can defend my own life(and not defy God, per Diploids assertion) up to the use of deadly force, is that: I dont have any prophecies to fulfill, and I'm not dying for others people sins.
So this means that you don't have to do anything that Jesus said. Really odd for a Christian. 
Either that or you cherry-pick what you want to follow/obey. Very common for a Christian.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: Poid]
#14591137 - 06/10/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I didnt know there are many interpertations of the Bible because you said:
"Something that is so vague and open to interpretation should not be used as a moral compass, it can be used to justify anything..Jesus fucking Christ, get a clue. "
Wow.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (06/10/11 03:25 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: Relevance of the Ten Commandments [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14591177 - 06/10/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Where did I say that you don't know there are many interpretations of the Bible? I asked you if you understood that there are several interpretations of the Bible, I didn't state that you're not aware of them. Do you understand the difference between a question and a statement?
The reason I asked you if you understood that there are several interpretations of the Bible is because you don't seem to understand that it's retarded to use something that is so vague and open to interpretation as a moral compass.
Are you still confused, or do I need to explain what is being discussed here in greater detail?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (06/10/11 03:37 PM)
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