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blingbling
what you chicken stew?


Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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western use of ASC's
#14583404 - 06/09/11 04:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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consciousness is directive. that is, it is always directed at something. during altered states of consciousness cognition becomes abstract. shamans use these abstract realms of thought to heal the sick or exact revenge on other shamans. my question is what are in the west using these altered states of consciousness for? do you believe that your visions contain any form of "power"?
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Saren
sk3
Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 9
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: blingbling]
#14583453 - 06/09/11 05:02 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most definitely do I believe my experiences contain power of some form. I don't know that much about spirituality, but before having any psychedelic experiences I was a straight atheist, now I like to think of myself as at least an animist.
How about yourself and your culture?
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: Saren]
#14584269 - 06/09/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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nothing inherently has power, or value.
power, or value, is assigned through recognition.
/thread
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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HarryL
Squnä'am



Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 8,070
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: k00laid]
#14584399 - 06/09/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Suppose that depends on your definition of 'power'
To say the sun does not itself have power is false, it does. To say worshiping the sun imbues you with power is subjective opinion.
To a certain amount though, I would agree... The shamans hold some power, cause they are revere and given 'power' by the people coming to them. Same can be said for Western medicine, where we have faith in Doctors (generalization to make a point), and we give them power.. And a shit load of money... Westerners lean on science, and the belief that we know enough about the nature of existence to 'cure' sickness and judge 'what is good or bad' for you. If I understand Shamanism, they are basing their beliefs on thousands of years of acquired knowledge, and how they perceive the natural world and mans place in it.
To answer the OP though, it depends on the individuals. Some believe in the power and mythology of mushrooms.... Some don't. In the latter case, Whether that is lack of faith in anything or just their own belief basis, is a debatable aspect of hallucinogen use. But, same could be said of organized western religion too... Where masses put their faith in old stories and men in black robes, or not. I often wonder if western users would have had the benefit of shaman guides on their initial uses, if more would believe in the power of the experience?
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: HarryL]
#14584461 - 06/09/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
HarryL said:
To say the sun does not itself have power is false
depends what you mean by power.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: k00laid]
#14584588 - 06/09/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamans use these abstract realms of thought to heal the sick or exact revenge on other shamans.
Do you believe that happens? Do you think tripping shamans can heal the sick with the power of their thoughts? I know those are the anthropological legends and myths, but I've also heard stories of Christians healing the sick with prayer and as far as I know, its a crock of shit.
So to consider your question asking how westerners direct their psychedelic consciousness, I'd have to say many of them do it in an equally nonsensical fashion, especially if they believe they are magically affecting the world.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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ChronicSmoke
wanderer


Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 538
Loc: On the Moon
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: joemolloy]
#14584640 - 06/09/11 10:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dr's are pretty straightforward, as much as I believe what it happening is powerful. I dont think they would come out with the idea that their new power's can heal.
Entheogens are certainly powerful, what power I get im still trying to understand.
-------------------- This is a public computer, 1,000's of people use it everyday this isn't me typing this. I dont even know how I got on this site, how the hell do I even work this computer.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Quote:
ChronicSmoke said: Entheogens are certainly powerful, what power I get im still trying to understand.
I don't think it is understandable and I'm not sure if there is any functional power associated with it. I've never come any closer to figuring it out since my first taste of it. But interestingly enough, I sincerely believe that I wandered very far and gotten very lost in that seemingly futile quest for comprehension.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: joemolloy]
#14584705 - 06/09/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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once you understand that you dont need to understand, you understand
:aweyes:
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
Edited by k00laid (06/09/11 10:29 AM)
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?


Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: western use of ASC's [Re: joemolloy]
#14586735 - 06/09/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said:
Quote:
shamans use these abstract realms of thought to heal the sick or exact revenge on other shamans.
Do you believe that happens? Do you think tripping shamans can heal the sick with the power of their thoughts? I know those are the anthropological legends and myths, but I've also heard stories of Christians healing the sick with prayer and as far as I know, its a crock of shit.
So to consider your question asking how westerners direct their psychedelic consciousness, I'd have to say many of them do it in an equally nonsensical fashion, especially if they believe they are magically affecting the world.
Their visions make sense to them so how is it nonsensical? I started this thread so that I could get a better idea of how culture shapes the experience of ASC's. Like many of you I do believe my visions have some "power" but what that is I'm not sure. I don't believe its the type of power shamans claim; to heal the sick and fight other shamans through psychic battles. Although the effects of healing communities through shamanism could be explained through a change in the groups emotional charge or some psychosocial relationship between intent and the physical world that is not what I think ASC's mean in the west.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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