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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14587863 - 06/09/11 09:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Faith also has given the world organizations like the
Interdenominational Christian Relief Charity





You keep grasping at tiny threads when there's a rope around your neck. :lol:  Nobody said christians don't ever do decent things and that has nothing to do with a gods existence.  Lots of humans who don't believe in a god do all kinds of charity work.

The trouble with faith is that no matter what logical arguments are presented they cannot have effect on pure faith because faith requires no evidence.  Faith is not logical.  The only way to change belief is to lose faith and gain rationality.  IMO this is not a problem of intelligence but of emotion, fueled by death anxiety, as in fear of impermanence. :satansmoking:




--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14587866 - 06/09/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There are alot of charities that have nothing to do with God...I support  the DAV....I never stated that people here dont believe Christians do good things....

allot of why faith based charities are formed, are because there is a faith in God...its an impetus


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14587867 - 06/09/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Faith is the motivating factory for charity...are you saying that becuse this charity has a mission based on faith, it has no or less value?




No, Im saying the faith is incidental.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14587882 - 06/09/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
There are alot of charities that have nothing to do with God...I support  the DAV....I never stated that people here dont believe Christians do good things....

allot of why faith based charities are formed, are because there is a faith in God...its an impetus





So what that has nothing to do with this thread. It's completely moot.  Faith does not prove anything about gods existence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Diploid]
    #14587884 - 06/09/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Me either.

There is no justification for suicide bombers.....if we got rid of faith....say it was eradicated.....would there still be suicide bombers?

Maybe less, who knows?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offline4896744
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14587901 - 06/09/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Me either.

There is no justification for suicide bombers.....if we got rid of faith....say it was eradicated.....would there still be suicide bombers?

Maybe less, who knows?




Or maybe none? Please show me evidence of a suicide bomber who didn't kill himself for God.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14587907 - 06/09/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

...either does suicide bombers...... just replying to previous posts, Ice

Lets all agree to end this thread?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #14587918 - 06/09/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't agree to anything.  All you need to do to end this is quit posting. Something you could have done the minute you stated you realized this thread was in the wrong forum.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: 4896744]
    #14587937 - 06/09/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Without researching it might be the Kamikazes...think they did under a Bushido code...not sure if God is in that or not?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14587943 - 06/09/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

With all due respect, Its not just me...there was a Mod that asked me a question.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #14587954 - 06/09/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Doesn't matter, if you want out then drop out. It's very easy if you can get your ego out of the way.

I'll stick this out for weeks. Fuck I'm retired. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4896744
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14587964 - 06/09/11 09:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Without researching it might be the Kamikazes...think they did under a Bushido code...not sure if God is in that or not?




They had faith in an absolute code of morals.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14587974 - 06/09/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If there is one thing you say about me bro, my ego is out for the count...did I not admit:

"I got my ass handed to me"


I did, it hurts, goodnight


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14588004 - 06/09/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm headed for bed guys. It's been a goddamned riot as usual. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14588701 - 06/10/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If there is one thing you say about me bro, my ego is out for the count...did I not admit:

"I got my ass handed to me"


I did, it hurts, goodnight





It's actually very exceptional. Quite rare for a religious proponent to admit to any flaw of logic.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Rahz]
    #14589121 - 06/10/11 05:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

True.

Then my next question is can this cognitive dissonance  overcome the current  programs that are in place and a change in belief truly occur? A much harder step. Harder due to the fact that these types of change bring up fear based emotional states that are propagated by the belief system itself. Such as eternal punishment or abandonment by the imagined god.  These are really survival fears which bring one face to face with impermanence and death anxiety. A major task for the psyche. Even if one succeeds it can take many years to fully release the old program. A lot depends on when one developed the program, in which stage of growth. The earlier and younger the more difficult.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #14589255 - 06/10/11 07:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I would like to hear them.


I make no qualms about my faith....I will not get all evangelical or butthurt
on contrary evidence or differences of opinion. I look forward to challenging my own  beliefs, yet keep it forum appropriate.




If you let yourself be led you will be led to water.  If you let yourself get dunked in the water you will be made to believe you are special.

This is where the problems begin.  You are not special.

The End.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offline4896744
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14589728 - 06/10/11 10:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
True.

Then my next question is can this cognitive dissonance  overcome the current  programs that are in place and a change in belief truly occur? A much harder step. Harder due to the fact that these types of change bring up fear based emotional states that are propagated by the belief system itself. Such as eternal punishment or abandonment by the imagined god.  These are really survival fears which bring one face to face with impermanence and death anxiety. A major task for the psyche. Even if one succeeds it can take many years to fully release the old program. A lot depends on when one developed the program, in which stage of growth. The earlier and younger the more difficult.




That is why I would literally cry myself to sleep once I rejected the idea of God at a young age. The thought of ceasing to exist was too much for me to bear at the time.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: 4896744]
    #14589785 - 06/10/11 10:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

And so it remains although with age and development we create more sophisticated methods for burying these fears. They remain to some degree imo and it's the quality of our shields that determine the amount of suffering. A little to a lot.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4896744
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Re: Logical and rational arguments against a higher power. [Re: Icelander]
    #14589807 - 06/10/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't disagree with that.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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