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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me
    #14579106 - 06/08/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How the hell does it work?

Especially the abstract painting. How can someone determine that a certain painting is worth more than an other???

Some painting looks like someone just threw a can of paint at the canvas and other people think it fucking amazing, and yet if I throw a can of paint at a canvas, it absolute shit. I don't get it.

Example:



That thing is apparently super expensive.... wtf???

I seriously do not get art...


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Patlal]
    #14579120 - 06/08/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The example you posted is mind boggling to me. A child can do that as we have seen
today with that one thread. Why art like that is worth money to me is silly.

But there is really amazing art out there.

That must be a JP.


Edited by DeadHearts (06/08/11 10:47 AM)


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OfflineCherk
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Patlal]
    #14579142 - 06/08/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

is that a pollock?

the art market is interesting

name has a lot to do with it when the price gets into the thousands

paint is expensive too


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579143 - 06/08/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Its like high school.  Someone cool, in the followers eyes, thinks its art so does everyone else.


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The truth is, nobody has a clue.


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579149 - 06/08/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sigma_zero said:
Its like high school.  Someone cool, in the followers eyes, thinks its art so does everyone else.



:lol: QFT


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #14579157 - 06/08/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

sigma_zero said:
Its like high school.  Someone cool, in the followers eyes, thinks its art so does everyone else.



:lol: QFT





No truth in that.


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579163 - 06/08/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Here is another ridiculous example IMO



Apparentely worth a shit ton of cash. Go figure


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Patlal]
    #14579174 - 06/08/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Here is another ridiculous example IMO



Apparentely worth a shit ton of cash. Go figure





Yup. its retarded.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Patlal]
    #14579179 - 06/08/11 10:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I can only offer a personal wxample.

I met an artist, befriended him, and had many interesting conversations with him.  He is a professional artist. He did a 4 year degree at a known art school, and does art full time.  He has dedicated his life to it.

He does abstract art, and I like it.  It's just interesting to look at.  I don't dig much deeper than that.

I'm going to commission him about $500 for a piece.  It'll look good on my wall, I'll have an interesting backstory anytime someone asks me about it, and I know the dude.  I'll choose the colors, size, etc.  Perhaps the most important thing is that it's one of a kind.  It exists nowhere else in the world, and has a personal touch.  Its truly unique.

My guess is that a lot of artists would say:  "it's not what everyone else thinks about it, it's what YOU think about it".  If a lot of people like it, its valuable.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineCherk
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts] * 1
    #14579186 - 06/08/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i value all expressions and love all art and I don't think it's retarded that someone can make a living off paintings like that when other people can make livings raping the environment and fucking the poor over

it gives me a little faith in humanity that people can make bank just making something that looks cool


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579190 - 06/08/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I like to make art when Im on drugs and I also enjoy art when sober. All in all I think that 20K for some piece of random splats is kidas IMO.


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Cherk]
    #14579206 - 06/08/11 11:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cherokee said:
i value all expressions and love all art and I don't think it's retarded that someone can make a living off paintings like that when other people can make livings raping the environment and fucking the poor over

it gives me a little faith in humanity that people can make bank just making something that looks cool





touche. maybe im just jealous :cool:


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
bend over


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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579207 - 06/08/11 11:04 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The more ARt there is the better. so what if it does not resemble to other styles.The fondamental goal is to find new ways of expression in my book.You dont always succeed.Beauty is subjective.You need to have an open mind to appreciate more abstract stuff.


Look a the universe for a second, its' the most abstract shit ever.:shrug:


Edited by Vsnares.Zappa (06/08/11 11:05 AM)


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14579214 - 06/08/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
The more ARt there is the better. so what if it does not resemble to other styles.The fondamental goal is to find new ways of expression in my book.You dont always succeed.Beauty is subjective.You need to have an open mind to appreciate more abstract stuff.


Look a the universe for a second, its' the most abstract shit ever.:shrug:




Indeed.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14579217 - 06/08/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
The more ARt there is the better. so what if it does not resemble to other styles.The fondamental goal is to find new ways of expression in my book.You dont always succeed.Beauty is subjective.You need to have an open mind to appreciate more abstract stuff.


Look a the universe for a second, its' the most abstract shit ever.:shrug:





Lots of people do it so they can slap a price on it and get rich easy these days.  Not sure how much fundamental beauty and art there is in that...  I've seen some good abstract, and I've seen some terrible horrible bullshit that's been made for money.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Maverick]
    #14579224 - 06/08/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

So what. It's better than someone selling guns  :fasted:


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579227 - 06/08/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

sigma_zero said:
Its like high school.  Someone cool, in the followers eyes, thinks its art so does everyone else.



:lol: QFT





No truth in that.



How so?  Because honestly I really don't know what I am talking about.
You really don't think the art seen is full of a bunch of sheep?  I understand there are a lot of good artists out there but I am talking about the people who buy it.


--------------------
The truth is, nobody has a clue.


Edited by sigma_zero (06/08/11 11:11 AM)


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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579234 - 06/08/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sigma_zero said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

sigma_zero said:
Its like high school.  Someone cool, in the followers eyes, thinks its art so does everyone else.



:lol: QFT





No truth in that.



How so?  Because honestly I really don't know what I am talking about.





I didnt know what you were talking about either. So we can just leave it at that.


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579241 - 06/08/11 11:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How do you apreciate the type of art the op posted on here duh.  You shouldn't ignore people just so you can make snippy remarks bruh.
If I understand the question its why do people pay so much for crap anyone can do?


--------------------
The truth is, nobody has a clue.


Edited by sigma_zero (06/08/11 11:16 AM)


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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579254 - 06/08/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sigma_zero said:
How do you apreciate the type of art the op posted on here duh.  You shouldn't ignore people just so you can make snippy remarks bruh.





you trollin me boy??

:house:


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14579260 - 06/08/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Lol no. relax bruggghh.


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The truth is, nobody has a clue.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579265 - 06/08/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cherokee said:
i value all expressions and love all art and I don't think it's retarded that someone can make a living off paintings like that when other people can make livings raping the environment and fucking the poor over

it gives me a little faith in humanity that people can make bank just making something that looks cool




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14579284 - 06/08/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yeah but where does the demand for something that can easily be done by the purchaser come from?


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The truth is, nobody has a clue.


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OfflineManyAk
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579294 - 06/08/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sigma_zero said:
yeah but where does the demand for something that can easily be done by the purchaser come from?




People are lazy. They would rather pay a shitload of money to have a popular painting in their expensive house, instead of making art themselves.

WEAK!


--------------------
                                  we are all luminous beings
why then do we not appear before each other radiant in our illumination


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579295 - 06/08/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Because purchasers are lazy fucks ?:cool:


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14579296 - 06/08/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It is cause it is  :shrug:


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The truth is, nobody has a clue.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14579315 - 06/08/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

''They will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own
not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world
not being able to love fully
they will believe your love incomplete
and then they will hate you
and their hatred will be perfect

like a shining diamond
like a knife
like a mountain
like a tiger
like hemlock

their finest art''


charles bukowski(genius of the crowd)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Patlal]
    #14579622 - 06/08/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Art isn't something you explain to other people.
You either appreciate it or you don't.
Everyone has different tastes.


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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Shroomism]
    #14579698 - 06/08/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

a lot of people buy art as an investment, if you have insider knowledge of the art scene you can buy art before the artist is popular and then make bank reselling it after they are well known. that first piece of art is worth so much because it will hold it's value, Jackson Pollock is a household name and since he's dead he's not going to be producing any new art, therefore its a good investment and gives you rich people headie points.


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InvisibleNewlord
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14579828 - 06/08/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Throwing paint on something isn't art despite what idiots think.

This is art:



This is not art:



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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Newlord]
    #14579879 - 06/08/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

is this art?



I made it :grin:


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InvisibleNewlord
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: mellowparty]
    #14579887 - 06/08/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
is this art?



I made it :grin:




Yes.

As long as it isn't "abstract" and there is a picture or there is some meaning conveyed, *OR it just looks nice to the eyes, i'd say it is art.


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Edited by Newlord (06/08/11 01:47 PM)


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Invisiblethodub

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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Patlal]
    #14579889 - 06/08/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Art is real subjective man...something that's worth a lot to one person may not be worth much at all to another...you have to gain acclaim though to sell your pieces at high prices....very few artists out there make it big


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InvisibleNewlord
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Registered: 05/12/11
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: thodub]
    #14579896 - 06/08/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

thodub said:
Art is real subjective man...





That's what these idiots who throw 3 different colored paints on a canvas and sell it for $10,000 want you to think. Art is not like music, it's not about whether you like it or not, but being able to determine if something is of artistic quality is pretty easy.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Newlord]
    #14579908 - 06/08/11 01:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Newlord said:
Quote:

thodub said:
Art is real subjective man...





That's what these idiots who throw 3 different colored paints on a canvas and sell it for $10,000 want you to think. Art is not like music, it's not about whether you like it or not, but being able to determine if something is of artistic quality is pretty easy.





Troll king to the rescue :maximumtrolling::huxleyfacepalm:


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Offlinelaserpig
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Newlord]
    #14579928 - 06/08/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Some time during the 20th century, different people will give you different guesses of when, art moved from being representational, to being conceptual. The artwork itself was no longer the content of the art. The content of the art became the conceptual structures around the artwork. Andy Warhol is a great example of this. His art, many people would claim, was not art, and did not make a statement. But by simply submitting it for consideration as art, Warhol dramatically challenged people's concept of what art was, and THAT was the real work of art. Warhol's art was not the physical prints and paintings he made, his art was how he made people think about art.

Some people, Pollock is a good example, took this too far IMO. But still, that's what they were going for, that's the kind of artist they were. Personally, I think that this:



... is real art. It is an image which, if you take the time, especially if you were standing in front of the original in an actual gallery, will in fact evoke certain emotional and conceptual responses, and not others. That interplay of subjective responses is the real artwork. That is what an artist plays with.

I am not shitting on representational art. Obviously, it is real art too. But so is abstract art. They are simply different.


Also, here's an idea: if you don't think a piece of abstract art is worth X amount of dollars that it sells for ... then don't buy it. There, I solved your problem. Whiners.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: laserpig]
    #14579936 - 06/08/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

abstract art is like instrumental music.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Newlord]
    #14579946 - 06/08/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Newlord said:
This is not art:






Quote:


*OR it just looks nice to the eyes, i'd say it is art.




Who are you to say that this painting doesn't look nice to someone else?


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InvisibleNewlord
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14579978 - 06/08/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:


Who are you to say that this painting doesn't look nice to someone else?





I'm the Art-man, I know art when I see it and if you think crap is art, I WILL correct you. :unabomber:


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14580272 - 06/08/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
''They will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own
not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world
not being able to love fully
they will believe your love incomplete
and then they will hate you
and their hatred will be perfect

like a shining diamond
like a knife
like a mountain
like a tiger
like hemlock

their finest art''


charles bukowski(genius of the crowd)



Thats just what someone says when you don't like their art.... I think at least


--------------------
The truth is, nobody has a clue.


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14580466 - 06/08/11 03:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Art is the most pretentious of artforms, IMO. Which is why I wouldn't get involved in the art world.


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #14580617 - 06/08/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't understand art math or poetry...

music and novels on the other hand make perfect sense.

idk.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #14580638 - 06/08/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mongo lloyd said:
Art is the most pretentious of artforms, IMO. Which is why I wouldn't get involved in the art world.




i kind of agree

and on a sidenote, i look at a piece of art and am interested for about.. 5 seconds.. then I move on.

art = :shrug:


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: pfxtc]
    #14580646 - 06/08/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pfxtc said:
Quote:

mongo lloyd said:
Art is the most pretentious of artforms, IMO. Which is why I wouldn't get involved in the art world.




i kind of agree

and on a sidenote, i look at a piece of art and am interested for about.. 5 seconds.. then I move on.

art = :shrug:



I'm the same. And anything you say about a piece of art is completely wrong because an art critic says so.


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: pfxtc]
    #14580657 - 06/08/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

this piece is my favorite. Pulled 14 thousand at an auction is braisuenburg Germany



just.. speaks volumes really


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14580678 - 06/08/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
this piece is my favorite. Pulled 14 thousand at an auction is braisuenburg Germany



just.. speaks volumes really



It looks like it was made on windows paint brush to me.


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The truth is, nobody has a clue.


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14580684 - 06/08/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
this piece is my favorite. Pulled 14 thousand at an auction is braisuenburg Germany



just.. speaks volumes really



Yeah, just look at the way some of the squares are different colours


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14580689 - 06/08/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

no man..

its probably to obscure for you to understand :hipster:


::maximumtrolling:


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #14580694 - 06/08/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

that black line really reflects life and the daily struggle each one of us must go th....


oh sorry, wrong meeting.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14580698 - 06/08/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Lol


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: sigma_zero]
    #14582681 - 06/08/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would expect people here to have imagination.:shrug:

I guess you're a conformist:headbanger:


Edited by Vsnares.Zappa (06/09/11 12:33 AM)


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OfflineMind Transcribing
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Newlord]
    #14582708 - 06/08/11 11:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Newlord said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
is this art?



I made it :grin:




Yes.

As long as it isn't "abstract" and there is a picture or there is some meaning conveyed, *OR it just looks nice to the eyes, i'd say it is art.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Abstract art is meaningless, regardless of the author's ideas of its meanings, because there is no way to determine the message within the art. The art itself is something else entirely once created and if you don't grasp a command of painting/writing you won't have control over the conveyed message.


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Offlinelimestoneman
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Mind Transcribing]
    #14582962 - 06/09/11 12:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Can't you see the emotion!? The Angish, OOHHHH THE PAIN, THE ANGER!
:realawe:


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Offlinesigma_zero
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14583828 - 06/09/11 07:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
I would expect people here to have imagination.:shrug:

I guess you're a conformist:headbanger:



I wouldn't say we lack imagination because we don't like the same art as you.  There is a lot of art that tickles my fancy.  I would say we are independent thinkers.  But even that is a lie.


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #14584186 - 06/09/11 08:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
I would expect people here to have imagination.:shrug:

I guess you're a conformist:headbanger:



I don't like art, therefore I'm a conformist sheep who has no mind outside of what the media tells me? That's a logical arguement :rolleyes:


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
bend over


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Re: SOmeone has to explain art and paintings to me [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #14585264 - 06/09/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mongo lloyd said:
Art is the most pretentious of artforms, IMO. Which is why I wouldn't get involved in the art world.




I find Opera music much more pretentious.:shrug:

it's all subjective really. thats why we should celebrate  all artstyles IMHO.
Open mindeness is key.


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