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timelapses
Life in free form



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Suicide compared to a natural death.
#14579060 - 06/08/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you believe in the after-life or that existance goes on when your body dies do you think there is a difference in what your experiences will be between the two?
I knew a woman in her 30's who deliberitely OD'd last year and then there is my Grandma, for example, and especially because of her religious beliefs that are carried by so many in many different faiths that you need to live till "God takes you in his time" but was miserable and suffering through her ailments. Always complaining about it.
I think it's bullshit but I also feel that there would be possible negative consequences for those who consciously choose suicide to escape something in life like in her case a upcoming court date and money problems.
Anyone have thoughts on this? It's depressing the shit out of me thinking about it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses]
#14579110 - 06/08/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
timelapses said: If you believe in the after-life or that existance goes on when your body dies do you think there is a difference in what your experiences will be between the two?
I knew a woman in her 30's who deliberitely OD'd last year and then there is my Grandma, for example, and especially because of her religious beliefs that are carried by so many in many different faiths that you need to live till "God takes you in his time" but was miserable and suffering through her ailments. Always complaining about it.
I think it's bullshit but I also feel that there would be possible negative consequences for those who consciously choose suicide to escape something in life like in her case a upcoming court date and money problems.
Anyone have thoughts on this? It's depressing the shit out of me thinking about it.
Yes I have thoughts on this. If someone had never told you suicide was wrong or a sin would you naturally believe it? What if society in general believed that suicide was a heroic act and was basically in favor of it in almost all cases. What would your belief system be then? These are the questions to ask yourself imo when deciding what to do with your life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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timelapses
Life in free form



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14579228 - 06/08/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I get what you are saying somewhat, conditioning and culture like the Japanese where it an honorable way to go and many do, though not always honorably from what I've read but socially accepted having to do with the lack of Christianity religion I suppose.
I enjoy life for the most part. But it's strange how people's deaths can get one thinking about it.
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses]
#14579299 - 06/08/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I plan on taking things into my own hands at some point on this journey. Sooner than later most likely. I just hope it doesn't freak me out too much.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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timelapses
Life in free form



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14579332 - 06/08/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Like Hunter Thompson if some freak accident doesn't happen in the meantime I agree. It even freaked Hunter out before he shot himself, convincing himself that "this isn't going to hurt" before shooting himself when his body was incapable of doing what it used to when he was enjoying his life.
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses]
#14579415 - 06/08/11 11:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"What if society in general believed that suicide was a heroic act and was basically in favor of it in almost all cases."
That society would probably not last very long.
"Sooner than later most likely."
What's sooner?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14579516 - 06/08/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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That society would probably not last very long.
So?
What's sooner?
something that comes before later.
or while I can still act on my own volition.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14579558 - 06/08/11 12:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"while I can still act on my own volition. "
HAH. Have you ever?
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14579565 - 06/08/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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only this response
Well not this one but maybe the next one.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14579577 - 06/08/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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How did you do it?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14579583 - 06/08/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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what is it?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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timelapses
Life in free form



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14579827 - 06/08/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "What if society in general believed that suicide was a heroic act and was basically in favor of it in almost all cases."
That society would probably not last very long.
"Sooner than later most likely."
What's sooner?
"In almost all causes"? Are we going back to the culture of Japan from a long time ago to now? From one culture out of the world. You have to have a better debate and insight than that.
To group the whole of humanity into that small frame is idiotic.
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14579927 - 06/08/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Posting on your own voilition.
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14579952 - 06/08/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I didn't but maybe this next one.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14579973 - 06/08/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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You didn't? I can't really tell.
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mushiepussy

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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14580143 - 06/08/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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A friend of mine shot himself in the heart at age 18. In his final moments, he struggled to open his parents door gasping "im sorry" with his dying breath.
His death almost pushed another very close friend of mine (his ex-gf)to her end as well, for he killed himself directly after he called her and she yelled at him for being a fuck up.
Tragic shit. But it definately sloved his problems..
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dzza


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses]
#14580344 - 06/08/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
timelapses said: I get what you are saying somewhat, conditioning and culture like the Japanese where it an honorable way to go and many do, though not always honorably from what I've read but socially accepted having to do with the lack of Christianity religion I suppose.
I enjoy life for the most part. But it's strange how people's deaths can get one thinking about it.
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NetDiver
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: dzza]
#14580364 - 06/08/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Someday, I am almost certainly going to kill myself.
Not for a lack of loving life, or any nihilistic world view. I just want to know, conclusively, what it feels like to die. "Curiosity killed the cat," as they say.
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses] 1
#14580530 - 06/08/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
timelapses said: If you believe in the after-life or that existance goes on when your body dies do you think there is a difference in what your experiences will be between the two?
I knew a woman in her 30's who deliberitely OD'd last year and then there is my Grandma, for example, and especially because of her religious beliefs that are carried by so many in many different faiths that you need to live till "God takes you in his time" but was miserable and suffering through her ailments. Always complaining about it.
I think it's bullshit but I also feel that there would be possible negative consequences for those who consciously choose suicide to escape something in life like in her case a upcoming court date and money problems.
Anyone have thoughts on this? It's depressing the shit out of me thinking about it.
How can there be negative consequences for that?
If I kill myself after having been paralyzed from the waste down and if you don't kill yourself but arent paralyzed from the waste down, how the hell can you say I am escaping life when clearly, OUR LIVES ARE COMPLELTLY DIFFERENT.
GET OVER THIS IDEA OF LIFE. Life is WAAAYYYYY to general to trully help you understand reality.
LIFE COMES IN NOT ONLY A MILLION DIFFERENT COLORS - IT ALSO HAS MILLIONS OF DIFFERENT SHAPES, SIZES, PATTERNS, AND EXPRESSIONS.
Next time you feel like this, just remember life is not what it seems!!!!
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14580651 - 06/08/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
#14580654 - 06/08/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Someday, I am almost certainly going to kill myself.
Not for a lack of loving life, or any nihilistic world view. I just want to know, conclusively, what it feels like to die. "Curiosity killed the cat," as they say.
I'd love to watch.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14580666 - 06/08/11 04:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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June 2011 - Russian who buried himself alive dies by mistake. The victim phoned from the coffin to say he was fine, but the next morning he was found dead.
A Russian man has died after persuading a friend to bury him alive for a night, hoping it would bring him "good luck".
The victim dug a hole in a garden in the eastern city of Blagoveshchensk and climbed into an improvised coffin, with holes for air pipes, taking a mobile phone and a bottle of water with him.
His friend covered the coffin with earth and then left, after the buried man phoned to say he was fine.
The next morning, he returned to find his friend dead, investigators said.
The 35-year-old victim had believed that burying himself alive for a night would bring him luck the rest of his life.
"According to his friend, the man wanted to test his endurance and insistently asked his friend to help him spend the night buried," said Alexei Lubinsky, a senior aide to the region's chief investigator.
"We know that the victim was a computer programmer and that he has a small child."
The coffin was covered with soil to a depth of about 20cm (eight inches), Mr Lubinsky said.
He speculated that heavy rainfall overnight could have blocked the air supply to the man trapped inside.
The superstitious victim was probably influenced by reading stories about self-burial on the internet, investigators said.
In a bizarre trend, numerous Russian bloggers write of undergoing supervised self-burial. State newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta has even run a feature on the practice.
The BBC's Steve Rosenberg, in Moscow, says it is not the first time this has happened in Russia.
Last summer a man in the north-western Vologda region persuaded his friend to bury him in the ground - to help him overcome his fear of death.
He was found dead an hour and a half later, crushed by the weight of the earth.
One way to deal with DA.
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NetDiver
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14585738 - 06/09/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I'd love to watch. 
Never inviting you to my house.
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ChronicSmoke
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
#14587424 - 06/09/11 08:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Someday, I am almost certainly going to kill myself.
Not for a lack of loving life, or any nihilistic world view. I just want to know, conclusively, what it feels like to die. "Curiosity killed the cat," as they say.
News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
We all die.
-------------------- This is a public computer, 1,000's of people use it everyday this isn't me typing this. I dont even know how I got on this site, how the hell do I even work this computer.
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: ChronicSmoke]
#14587620 - 06/09/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
No but you do have to die to feel what it's like to die.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ChronicSmoke
wanderer


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14589515 - 06/10/11 08:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
No but you do have to die to feel what it's like to die.
Yea so why end the game so fast when there are so many more levels before you have to die?
-------------------- This is a public computer, 1,000's of people use it everyday this isn't me typing this. I dont even know how I got on this site, how the hell do I even work this computer.
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: ChronicSmoke]
#14589718 - 06/10/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChronicSmoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
No but you do have to die to feel what it's like to die.
Yea so why end the game so fast when there are so many more levels before you have to die?
It's all personal preference. However, once you start to experience the pain often associated with approaching your time of death, I have a feeling you may not be so eager to continue the experience of these different "levels".
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: ChronicSmoke]
#14589793 - 06/10/11 10:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChronicSmoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
No but you do have to die to feel what it's like to die.
Yea so why end the game so fast when there are so many more levels before you have to die?
Better explain that better and with examples as I don't know wtf you are saying.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14590857 - 06/10/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
ChronicSmoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
No but you do have to die to feel what it's like to die.
Yea so why end the game so fast when there are so many more levels before you have to die?
It's all personal preference. However, once you start to experience the pain often associated with approaching your time of death...
Many get over that, and approach their time with humility.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Poid]
#14593247 - 06/10/11 10:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
ChronicSmoke said:
Quote:
Icelander said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
No but you do have to die to feel what it's like to die.
Yea so why end the game so fast when there are so many more levels before you have to die?
It's all personal preference. However, once you start to experience the pain often associated with approaching your time of death...
Many get over that, and approach their time with humility.
Why should you put yourself through this unnecessary suffering?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14593266 - 06/10/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's called depression..some get over it much easier than others, and people experience it for varying reasons.
"There is a light in the end of the tunnel.", "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.", and all that jazz.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Poid]
#14593309 - 06/10/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: It's called depression..some get over it much easier than others, and people experience it for varying reasons.
"There is a light in the end of the tunnel.", "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.", and all that jazz.
When you are close to death there isn't anything but complete darkness at the end of the tunnel.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14593339 - 06/10/11 10:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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And I'm saying some people learn to enjoy their final moments as much as possible, and do so humbly. Not everybody is in a rush to die as soon as shit gets awry.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deranger

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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14593348 - 06/10/11 10:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
Poid said: It's called depression..some get over it much easier than others, and people experience it for varying reasons.
"There is a light in the end of the tunnel.", "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.", and all that jazz.
When you are close to death there isn't anything but complete darkness at the end of the tunnel.
Darkness is such a trip man.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: deranger]
#14593362 - 06/10/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deranger

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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Poid]
#14593377 - 06/10/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: deranger]
#14593390 - 06/10/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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That would work, too.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Poid]
#14594877 - 06/11/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: It's called depression..some get over it much easier than others, and people experience it for varying reasons.
"There is a light in the end of the tunnel.", "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.", and all that jazz.
Nonsense poid, you are making a black and white blanket statement. Many suffer depression their whole lives or live as zombies under meds. Sometimes the tunnel just gets darker.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Poid]
#14594882 - 06/11/11 08:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: And I'm saying some people learn to enjoy their final moments as much as possible, and do so humbly. Not everybody is in a rush to die as soon as shit gets awry. 
Right, "some people". For the rest suicide is the solution. If I'm enjoying the dying process all well and good and if not I'll opt out.
'If you have many ideas(options) you will have good ideas" - Moshe Feldenkrais
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14594916 - 06/11/11 08:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Poid said: It's called depression..some get over it much easier than others, and people experience it for varying reasons.
"There is a light in the end of the tunnel.", "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.", and all that jazz.
Nonsense poid, you are making a black and white blanket statement. Many suffer depression their whole lives or live as zombies under meds. Sometimes the tunnel just gets darker.
I know, I said that some get over it much easier than others..I meant to add that some never do. Those two quoted sayings only apply to people who have a chance at overcoming their depression, I didn't mean to imply that they apply to all people.
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Poid said: And I'm saying some people learn to enjoy their final moments as much as possible, and do so humbly. Not everybody is in a rush to die as soon as shit gets awry. 
Right, "some people". For the rest suicide is the solution.
Yup, I meant to add in the previous post that some don't get over their depression at all..I guess I excluded it because the point of the post was mainly to show that there is hope for some people who are experiencing suicidal depression.
I was just trying to play devil's advocate against iThink's grim position on the matter.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rhizoid
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses]
#14596472 - 06/11/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are good reasons why suicide and euthanasia are taboo in any healthy society. There is a slippery slope all the way from voluntary self-euthanasia to ubasute to widow-burning to Auschwitz.
But when you think about it, suicide is not really different from any other killing. The general rule is that killing humans is wrong, but in some situations killing humans can be justified anyway. That applies to killing yourself too.
Food for thought: When we kill a beloved pet, it's called "being humane", and when we let the same pet suffer in pain until it dies a natural death it's called "being inhumane".
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Rhizoid]
#14596527 - 06/11/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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True dat. And I have thought about it, a lot.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NetDiver
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: ChronicSmoke]
#14615459 - 06/15/11 01:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChronicSmoke said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
We all die.
But it's possible that I could die without being aware of it, in which case I would never know what it feels like. 
And of course this is only something I would do if I'd reached a certain point in my life.
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
#14616162 - 06/15/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe you will go unaware exactly when you die, and deprive yourself of an experience you wanted but could never actually have.
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
#14616986 - 06/15/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
ChronicSmoke said: News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.
We all die.
But it's possible that I could die without being aware of it, in which case I would never know what it feels like. 
And of course this is only something I would do if I'd reached a certain point in my life.
If you die without being aware of it, it won't matter because you will be dead. You will also have had a much easier time reaching your ultimate fate than many do.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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NetDiver
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14622024 - 06/16/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh, I know. But right now, I'm curious.
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desert father
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
#14622044 - 06/16/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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curiosity killed the cat, yes, but you are a snake.
i admire your bravery, but would it be more courageous to keep your life because of your love for others rather than to kill yourself because of your curiosity?
i understand that i know nothing about you, but does the thought that someone else might suffer grief because of your death mean enough to compel you to change your mind?
i am honestly just curious, not trying to push a belief onto you.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: desert father]
#14622087 - 06/16/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.
Wouldn't be more accurate to say the there family chooses to be hurt by their actions? They could also choose not to be hurt and accept them with love for who they really are.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (06/16/11 02:23 PM)
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: desert father]
#14622423 - 06/16/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
desert father said: curiosity killed the cat, yes, but you are a snake.
i admire your bravery, but would it be more courageous to keep your life because of your love for others rather than to kill yourself because of your curiosity?
i understand that i know nothing about you, but does the thought that someone else might suffer grief because of your death mean enough to compel you to change your mind?
i am honestly just curious, not trying to push a belief onto you.
The same could be said with breaking up or rejecting somebody.
Many times I have seen women/men who cheat and break others hearts, only to be stricken with grief when the person they cheated on rejected them.
Lastly, you cause people sadness on a daily basis. There will always be people who do not benefit from what you love and want to do.
Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.
But at which point does ones own happiness becomes more important than anothers???
You see, that is the major problem when people say 'dont kill yourself because it will hurt others'
What they fail to realize is that what they are saying is 'suffer for other people'.
Hence such a big problem with this thinking.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14623005 - 06/16/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alfalfa said:
Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.
Wouldn't be more accurate to say that their family chooses to be hurt by their actions? They could also choose not to be hurt and accept them with love for who they really are.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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desert father
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14624782 - 06/16/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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like i mentioned i don't know the poster at all, was just curious on his particular opinion on the matter because he was the one who so courageously decided his fate.
you're right, suffering for others is an inevitable part of survival.
you work together, suffer together, you have a better chance at survival.
it is completely subjective, i don't think either decision is the right decision...i've made similar posts on this topic before not necessarily condemning any decision, murder or otherwise, because you never truly know their situation.
another reason i don't think it just to lock anyone away in a jail.
it's the big picture that you have to fix, not the problems within it that causes suffering.
if the way we're living encourages us to rape, kill, commit suicide...there's something wrong with the way we're living.
what do i (anyone else) do about it?
deal with it, because that's our instinct, to survive.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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desert father
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14624805 - 06/16/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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idk if you're directing your post at me, but yea, you're right.
they should be accepted for who they are, because are they really any better or worse than you or I?
no, we're all the same, we're all human, and are all guilty of crimes against each other, whether that be lust, jealousy, anger....(not to get judeo on you guys).
but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14624877 - 06/16/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Alfalfa said:
Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.
Wouldn't be more accurate to say that their family chooses to be hurt by their actions? They could also choose not to be hurt and accept them with love for who they really are.
They choose to believe that homosexuality will land you in hell? I doubt that sincerely.
I doubt anyone chooses to believe in hell because we are always looking for ways to make life easier for ourselves and if hell never existed to some people who feel it does, I am sure they would breath a sigh of relief because they would not feel that they could never fail so much that they land themselves to burn for an eternity. Fall into temptation, etc.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14624917 - 06/16/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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They choose to believe that homosexuality will land you in hell? I doubt that sincerely.
Are you saying we have no choice in what we believe? No free will? Why do some believe in hell and others not?
I once believed in hell and now I do not. I also once believed that others could hurt me with their words and deeds (apart from physically harming me) and now I do not. I believe I have a choice in the matter and I exercise it at times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: desert father]
#14625060 - 06/16/11 08:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."
What is respect?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14625082 - 06/16/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't need respect. I just need to do my thing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14625108 - 06/16/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."
What is respect?
Respect is the label humans give to what is basically one human being societies definition of "nice" to another human being. The human performing the "nice" actions would be considered to be respecting the other human. You seem to have a lot of trouble with understanding language don't you?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14625397 - 06/16/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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So everyone feels the same actions are nice?
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
#14625927 - 06/16/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: They choose to believe that homosexuality will land you in hell? I doubt that sincerely.
Are you saying we have no choice in what we believe? No free will? Why do some believe in hell and others not?
I once believed in hell and now I do not. I also once believed that others could hurt me with their words and deeds (apart from physically harming me) and now I do not. I believe I have a choice in the matter and I exercise it at times.
You did, I agree, but does that mean that others do?
Have you ever heard of the saying "You can never realize, what you don't realize you need to know in order to come to realize what you don't?"
Do you believe that free will has more influence over our decisions than education? And since I doubt you do, why do you say that these people who believe in hell and have not been educated otherwise, CAN and have the opportunity to realize that it doesn't exist out of their own free will when clearly education is far more potent in changing peoples minds than their own will?
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14625938 - 06/16/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
xFrockx said: "but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."
What is respect?
Respect is the label humans give to what is basically one human being societies definition of "nice" to another human being. The human performing the "nice" actions would be considered to be respecting the other human. You seem to have a lot of trouble with understanding language don't you?

I can guarantee that you and I don't have the same definition to respect.
Define it for us instead of whining - this is a forum of deep discussion, you would be naive to think that we all have the same definitions for things like respect.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14626018 - 06/16/11 11:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Define it for us instead of whining - this is a forum of deep discussion, you would be naive to think that we all have the same definitions for things like respect."
Either you aren't reading or you are hilarious.
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14626082 - 06/17/11 12:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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That still doesn't define it.
It's simply saying, respect is being nice to people.
Not only that but its damn condescending.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14626111 - 06/17/11 12:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"It's simply saying, respect is being nice to people.
Not only that but its damn condescending. "
I'm simply asking, what does that even mean? I'm not looking for a definition, I'm looking for you to think about how it is to say "be nice" or "be respectful" and expect a person to know what to do.
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14626162 - 06/17/11 12:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
xFrockx said: "but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."
What is respect?
Respect is the label humans give to what is basically one human being societies definition of "nice" to another human being. The human performing the "nice" actions would be considered to be respecting the other human. You seem to have a lot of trouble with understanding language don't you?

I can guarantee that you and I don't have the same definition to respect.
Define it for us instead of whining - this is a forum of deep discussion, you would be naive to think that we all have the same definitions for things like respect.
So what is your definition for respect?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14626187 - 06/17/11 12:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: So everyone feels the same actions are nice?
No. It is each person's subjective interpretation of what nice is.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14626196 - 06/17/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh it is? It really is?
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14626275 - 06/17/11 12:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Oh it is? It really is?
That's what I said.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14626294 - 06/17/11 12:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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How do you know that?
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14626313 - 06/17/11 01:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: How do you know that?
From experiences I have had.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14626367 - 06/17/11 01:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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So experience is knowledge?
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4896744
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
#14626386 - 06/17/11 01:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: So experience is knowledge?
What do you define knowledge as?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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xFrockx


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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14626412 - 06/17/11 01:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have no definition for it personally. I'm not sure what knowledge is.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
#14626766 - 06/17/11 05:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
xFrockx said: "but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."
What is respect?
Respect is the label humans give to what is basically one human being societies definition of "nice" to another human being.
I think "respect" is a phenomenon that has been witnessed to occur in species other than humans (i.e. not only humans show/give/acknowledge respect).
Quote:
xFrockx said: So experience is knowledge?
Uhh..I don't think he implied this. I think he was saying that he gained knowledge from experiences he's had. That's not the same thing as saying experience is knowledge.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14626772 - 06/17/11 06:02 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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You did, I agree, but does that mean that others do?
I have not been able to answer that question to my satisfaction. In other words I don't know.
I do know I was raised in a very dysfunctional, anxiety producing, sexually repressive, fundamentalist Christian home and was taught that homosexuality was an abomination which I believed when young.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (06/17/11 06:04 AM)
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