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OfflineMilkycereal
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Registered: 06/07/11
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Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death
    #14576839 - 06/07/11 09:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Long post, if you wanna skip to the question skip everything between the --- lines. Everything in there is just sorta my "story".

----------

I've taken shrooms 3 times in my life. I've taken acid 3 times aswell. I've never experienced ego death though. I've always sorta tried to avoid it...

But after thinking about it and reading about it...it might be just what I need...I mean my ego gets in the way of what I wanna do and who I wanna be in life. I guess at the root of it, I worry about looking "cool" and I worry about what people think of me, constantly.

Often I get so stuck inside my head that I don't say much at all in places like work or at the gym (I've been taking MMA classes, I love em but it kills me how fucking quiet I am there. I feel too timid, even though almost everyone there is really cool..., cool as in good people)

I know the person in me is better than this. He's come out before plenty of times in my life...right now i'm going through a phase where I only feel like myself with my friends, but even then I think i'm holding back a bit.

I'm not ugly, not weird in anyway. I'm really short but people are always cool to me. I got fucked with a bit in school because I was an easy target, I think thats sorta where it started. This combined with puberty and the desire to look cool, fit in and fuck girls snowballed into the loser I am right now...

Alright maybe i'm being too hard on myself here, but i'm feeling low right now. Feeling like i'm not living life to the fullest.

I wanna be jumpin off the walls and not giving a fuck, like I used to be, like my little brother. It kills me... we just don't click like we used to because he's like I was back in the day and I crawled into a shell.

And because i'm in a shell I feel fustrated and irritable alot, and I take it out on the wrong people (my parents). 

I can't go on like this guys. I'm gonna end up missing more and more oppertunities. I'm not going to make as many people laugh or make as many friends or meet as many girls or do what I really want to do in life, all because of myself.

The thought of my parents dying unexpextantly without knowing that I really think their great and that I love them haunts me everyday. And yet I can't help being a prick around them.

-----

...Now I know one of the best methods to dealing with Anxiety and self-conciousness is acceptance. You accept that your anxious before going to work, you don't fight it but you go to work anyway. Sort of like wearing an uncomfortable piece of clothing; after a while if you stop fussing over it it stops bothering you.

But i'm still having trouble accepting certain things...there's still "blocks" in my mind. I accept the fact that I'm anxious before talking to ____, but that doesn't help me with opening up more and really being myself...

Maybe over time with practice I can get better at acceptance...but I feel like ego-death would be a great starting point.

The come-down of my first shroom trip was the most peaceful and happiest moment I've had in my life thus far. I didn't go through ego-death, but I thought alot about life, and just how real and how precious it is...anyway it was 2am, and I was sitting on my front porch with my littel bro and little cousin (both 16)

..and we just talked. Nothing deep, nothing life-changing, just talk. Completly care-free conversation. I was just my old care-free self for a beautiful moment. We talked about video-games, girls, skateboarding...and I loved it. It made me realize that I never do that anymore. I can't have a conversation without my ego getting in the way.

So I think my ego needs a swift kick in the nuts....how do you guys feel about this?


Edited by Milkycereal (06/07/11 09:28 PM)


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OfflineFighterPilot9
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14576936 - 06/07/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Holy shit man, EVERY SINGLE word you said in your post is like an exact carbon copy of my life and my situation.  Ditto to every last word you said, I'm serious.  I'm in the exact same situation as you.  Always anxious, self-conscious, and feeling forced to hold back from being myself.  Although when I did actually feel myself approaching ego death, I fought it because it scared me, just like you said.  I feel for you man, best of luck to ya!


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Offlineadollar2lookatit
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: FighterPilot9]
    #14577000 - 06/07/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

FUCK. ANXIETY. IN. THE. ASS.

I'm in the same boat as both you guys.


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Offlineadollar2lookatit
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: adollar2lookatit]
    #14577020 - 06/07/11 10:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

FighterPilot,

I read your thread yesterday and I can relate to pretty much everything you said.


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OfflineMilkycereal
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: FighterPilot9]
    #14577028 - 06/07/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It's amazing how many people out there are in the same exact boat yet there seems to be no solution...

I'm just gonna try accepting my anxiety and stepping outta my comfort zone and not giving a fuck as much as possible. Maybe i'll "grow" outta my shell.

But ego death could be a good tool, thats why i'm here haha


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Offlineadollar2lookatit
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14577084 - 06/07/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How does someone go about accepting their anxiety?


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OfflineMilkycereal
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: adollar2lookatit]
    #14577163 - 06/07/11 10:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It's hard to explain, basicly stop trying to fight it:

Well you know how where your feeling anxious, you think to yourself "Oh crap i'm getting anxious/nervous and it's gonna make me act weird/stutter/shy".

Thinking about it like that fuels the fire, and makes you more anxious (about being anxious).

You gata realize that anxiety is normal and happens to everyone. You just gata accept the fact that you have butterflies in your stomach or your breathing is shallow. You gata bite the bullet and do what you wanna do.

Say to youself, "Ah shit i'm anxious"...and that's it, keep doing what you were gonna do.

Identify when your feeling anxious too. If your chest feels tight or you feel tense, slow down and ask yourself why your feeling so tense. Often you can defuse the anxiety by realizing there's nothing to worry about.



It gets a little easier each time you do this. After a while, in theory, you could work your way up to not giving a fuck about a whole bunch of things.

But obviously i'm still working on it myself. I notice though that acceptance works well in many areas of life. Accepting your feelings, thoughts, or whatever makes things less stressful.


Edited by Milkycereal (06/07/11 10:23 PM)


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Invisibleextreme
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14577250 - 06/07/11 10:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Milkycereal said:
It's amazing how many people out there are in the same exact boat yet there seems to be no solution...

I'm just gonna try accepting my anxiety and stepping outta my comfort zone and not giving a fuck as much as possible. Maybe i'll "grow" outta my shell.

But ego death could be a good tool, thats why i'm here haha




It's funny because I came to the realization that I was a sensitive person that thought a lot more than other people back when I was maybe 15 or 16... before I ever even smoked weed.  I would sometimes get that anxiety you're all talking about, what should I say in this situation, what if they don't like me, etc..

You say you want to just "grow" out of your shell.

Is that because you want to just fit in with society, not recognize what you truly want, just to look more normal to others?

I realized after a small drinking phase (get drunk like once a month) when I was 16-18 that that shit just WASN'T ME.  I simply don't enjoy hanging around large groups of people acting dumb and everything.  Now I know you didn't mention drinking or anything and you say you're more just anxious in every day life.  Again I'm kind of the same way, but I just accept it, and only talk if I want/need to, not when I feel like I should.

Now I know I have a true self inside just like you say you do, that not many people usually see (the REAL you anyway).  That's fine, and as long as you have just a few people that are cool enough to see that, then you're doing alright.

I still struggle each day though.. I still feel a little bad when I don't care enough to engage back in conversation, or choke when I KNOW I have a good chance with some hot girl, but I've still accepted that that is simply ME.

I've thought about ego death, and it really interests me.  The first time I try DMT, I want to go all out and let go of my ego.  So far I've only done mush/acid a couple times, but I've seen that beauty that you speak of, that everyone on this forum knows of.

It's all chemicals in your brain man, all of it.  You're anxious because you lack serotonin, extra stress hormones, whatever.  I'm not a psychologist; not diagnosing you, but I'd imagine you're the way you are for something as simple as the above. When you get drunk you don't care cuz of the alcohol chemical.  When you roll you feel good because your brain is flooded with serotonin.

You must understand that as different as everybody is on this planet, we are all SO SIMILAR when you compare us to everything else.  The 6 billion of us on little earth here makes up only an invisible blip in the universe.  We are all so close together, with such similar genes. I remember seeing that across the human race there's only like .1% variation in the actual DNA sequence for us all. People naturally are judgmental though, and like to nitpick the differences in each other.

It's a tough world that gets pretty rough at times, but there's always beauty out there.  Just know what's true for you, and try and associate with other people like you that you can get along with.

Quote:

Milkycereal said:
It's hard to explain, basicly stop trying to fight it:

Well you know how where your feeling anxious, you think to yourself "Oh crap i'm getting anxious/nervous and it's gonna make me act weird/stutter/shy".

Thinking about it like that fuels the fire, and makes you more anxious (about being anxious).

You gata realize that anxiety is normal and happens to everyone. You just gata accept the fact that you have butterflies in your stomach or your breathing is shallow. You gata bite the bullet and do what you wanna do.

Say to youself, "Ah shit i'm anxious"...and that's it, keep doing what you were gonna do.

Identify when your feeling anxious too. If your chest feels tight or you feel tense, slow down and ask yourself why your feeling so tense. Often you can defuse the anxiety by realizing there's nothing to worry about.



It gets a little easier each time you do this. After a while, in theory, you could work your way up to not giving a fuck about a whole bunch of things.

But obviously i'm still working on it myself. I notice though that acceptance works well in many areas of life. Accepting your feelings, thoughts, or whatever makes things less stressful.




Another thing I wanted to mention was that I was thinking just the other night about what you mention here. Another reason humans are so special (for the most part, sober) is their ability to focus on thoughts.  We can ponder existence, do hard math problems, make advanced plans, by focusing in on the important problems and blocking out everything else.  What's funny about anxiety is that I've noticed it is usually an EXTREMELY focused thought.  You can get stuck in thought loops about how anxious you are, and you forget about the infinite amount of others things that could occupy your mind.  So many other thoughts could put you at ease, but the one and only thought that can make it worse is "oh shit I'm anxious" followed by questioning yourself and every move you make.  Just do it.


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Offlinewal0013
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14577267 - 06/07/11 10:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think these are just classic symptoms of the struggle that is the human condition. Almost everyone feels anxiety and apprehension on a daily basis. Some show it less and give an illusion of confidence and collectedness but don't be fooled. There is a lot at stake socially when we enter into discourse & interact with our peers, what we do what we say and how we act are all scrutinized rigorously and appraised by others. For the  most part we do this to, it is not a deliberate effort, it is how Humans work, all governed by certain principles which influence the way we personally perceive others.
What you will eventually have occur is the discovery of a friend or group of friends in whose presence you will feel entirely uninhibited, your social proximity to them will be very small and thus an intimate freindship will be propagated. Everyone finds at least one person they can feel like this about, what you should then find is that you can extrapolate this into other relationships and situations. Often when interacting for the first time with people making a subtle effort to indicate that you're not a judgemental or bigoted type can help significantly, if they believe you'll not be critical of them and are open minded and accepting they will be much more likely to engage in reciprocity, the so called 'tit for tat golden rule'(Dr Robert Sapolsky read his latest book a primates memoir, brilliantly engaging) observable in all mammal species and even some others. Our neuro chemistry is not all that different from the other forms of life.

Adopting an attitude whereby you accept occasional judgment and rejection from others but understand that it is in essence ineffectual and meaningless to you could also help. Some people are innately endowed with negative dispositions so do not let them worry you, move on and try again.

Self consciousness in the manner it's been described here serves no real purpose, perhaps there is a reason you're holding yourself back other than that which you've mentioned?


--------------------
Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery, of party, faction, and division of society.






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OfflineChronicSmoke
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: adollar2lookatit]
    #14577491 - 06/07/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

adollar2lookatit said:
How does someone go about accepting their anxiety?



Dont worry, and recognize you have little control.

I feel your pain i struggle too.


--------------------
This is a public computer, 1,000's of people use it everyday this isn't me typing this.  I dont even know how I got on this site, how the hell do I even work this computer.:wow: 



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Offlinetruthinpassing
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: ChronicSmoke]
    #14577617 - 06/07/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

great thread! my life situation is very similar to yours Cereal, except for a few things. i've never experienced full out ego death on a psychedelic but am really curious to see what it does for me Anxiety/Ego-wise.  i know there are many, many people out there with anxiety but it's good to hear from people with such similar problems to mine.


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Invisiblefarmer88
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14577803 - 06/08/11 01:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Milkycereal said:
Long post, if you wanna skip to the question skip everything between the --- lines. Everything in there is just sorta my "story".

----------




I am not sure I have had a complete so called, ego death.  What I have had are some trips that made me very humble afterward.  Yes I was "humbled".  So maybe my ego was not killed but severely injured.

But what i wanted to say was that after really frying, suffering, being terrified and totally convinced that you are now insane...for keeps, stuck on the outer edge of the universe where "there are no stars", the straight world can be a different place. 

After one of those trips that caused me to "take a break for awhile", I was working with a person who became very anxious about something that seemed pretty trivial to me.  I felt like grabbing them and saying "hey, you think that is scarey?  You got nothing, thiiis is scarey!!!".  Well I didn't of course but sometimes what so called reality has to offer you is pretty trivial compared to the terrors that sometimes confront the pshyconaut. 

So rather than needing this mythical ego death as the destination, a good old fashioned arse-kicking from some good shrooms can be beneficial!


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: farmer88]
    #14578001 - 06/08/11 02:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Mmm.. I did not read the other posts in the thread other than your OP.

Ego-death is a very misunderstood term. As a teacher put it: "It is not the ego that dies. The ego cannot die, it is part of this experience. However, the term ego-death really relates to identity death. You no longer have an identity, you no longer are trying to be or desiring to be. You are."

What you wrote of though, seems a lot like forces conflicting within. A part of you wishes to be a humble person and respect the parents but your actions do quite the opposite. We all go through this stage, some stay in it longer than others. As one once said: "Parents are the bones children sharpen their teeth on".

However, dear brother, it is not your ego that requires this kick; rather yourself. The ego is a mere illusion we adapt and embed into our being when being born into this society. We hear things such as "you are ugly/beautiful, you are smart/dumb, you are.. you are..." and we consciously accept it "I am ugly/beautiful", etc. You have the power to be kind to your parents but as it seems you may be in your late teens or early twenties so it isn't something unusual.

Taking a mass amount of sacred medicine with the intention of "ego get a swift kick in the nuts" will be very troublesome as it is an illusion thought. When a medicine is given an illusion, it shreds it into nothingness and may cause much fear.

Listen to your own heart. We all outgrow this illusion some time in our being. You are starting to outgrow it. Talks simply do not occur anymore, the opportunities or false-confidence brought on by the identity to mate with women in such primal levels disappear and you will begin to shift. It is not something you can control. You can only go with it. Whether you go consciously or unconsciously, kicking and screaming or with ease is completely up to you.

The choice is yours. There is nothing out here for you to relearn or understand that will help your situation in anyway that you cannot already provide yourself with.

So the question really is, are you willing to be a more clear person? To put aside the child play and be your own inner truth?

Some helpful ways of doing this are expressing your art through writing (free write, just write and write even if it makes no sense until you feel satisfied), draw (same thing as free write, just do it, no judgement), sing, dance, go out in nature, photography, yoga, chi gong, jogging, whatever works for you. These are not easy things to start and maintain but they are, nonetheless beneficial.


Good luck in your tasks brother. Sincere Love and blessings to you, from you.


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: OneU]
    #14578020 - 06/08/11 02:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

By the way, there is not a single being in this universe that can escape facing their fears. If we have fears, it is an illusion and a distortion and must be cleansed before the experience is fully true. Do not fear anything, or do but face it and look it in the eyes. You fear you will lose your parents without them knowing you love them? Show them your love. Wash dishes, clean the house, spend some time with them (play board games or sit and talk, express who you are to them. it is better a parent know their child and accept them rather than not know their child and fear them) or don't. The choice is yours.

Do not dwell in sorrow or regret dear being, rather, live in the moment if you choose to. Live in spontaneity and you will be more 'yourself'. When we judge or identify a spontaneous urge, we start to lose it. Not the crazy thoughts but the deep sincere feelings of action. Learn to discern for yourself, because, no one out here can show you. The significance of being alone in our spiritual endeavors (to a certain extant) is the authenticity of what we realize or experience.

As always, you are Loved and you are Love.


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Offlinemundane
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: OneU]
    #14580211 - 06/08/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I know what you mean.  I've always been a very shy, self-conscious person who has trouble with socializing.  People will say something and I just won't know how to respond, that sort of thing.  I ended up doubting myself and beating myself up with those thought loops, which eventually let to depression.  I'd take it out on anyone around me: family, co-workers, but mostly myself.

I don't think I've experienced ego death, but I know exactly what that "identity death" (I like that) is like - finally feeling comfortable in my own skin, no matter who's around me!  Psychedelics gave me that, but the effects always wore off.

My interest in psyches eventually let me to TIHKAL, which in turn let me to hypnotherapy.  If the term scares you, it's really just guided meditation.  Through these meditations, I've been able to get closer to who I am underneath all of the anxieties and self-conscious thoughts, closer to how I feel with identity death.

I've only been on this meditation track for a year now, but feeling much better about myself and my interactions with the world and people in it. 

I'd recommend looking into Mindfulness and Dharma - the idea is to connect you to what's actually happening and get you out of that anxious set of thoughts.

Remember: be here now.  :peace:


--------------------
:mushroom2: Tips for a good trip :mushroom2:


drink me


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OfflineMilkycereal
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: OneU]
    #14580273 - 06/08/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks guys, really.

On ego "death", I figured it's not going to be a quick fix and after that i'll be happy and care-free...i just feel like my thinking may be flawed from all those inner conflicts I got in my head....it could be from growing up "wrong" or too much pot or those trips I took...but I want it to stop...

I guess I just want to be a stronger person. I want to be strong enough to be myself at all times, and not hide inside my head in fear of embarressment. I know everyone faces fear and embaressment, but I've got too much at unreasonable times.

This is where i'm stuck though. I've been hiding from embaressment for so long that I have trouble branching out and taking risks, and when I do take a risk (lets say trying to make a joke or something) it doesn't come out right because i've already dwelled on what I was going to say too much.

I need less thinking, less hesitation. I need to be more spontaneous, yet more humble. I need to not give a fuck about the trivial things.

Its hard to explain whats going on in my head, and you guys aren't therapists, but maybe some more people here can relate.

Thanks again though


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OfflineOneU
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14585556 - 06/09/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just know, though, that your Spirit stemmed from source but the vehicle in which you express yourself through (the body/mind) is provided by your parents. Sure one can get fancy and say they are one and they are but nonetheless, in the midst of this illusion, it is they who have nurtured your body to be where it is today. They have been responsible for you until you became self-conscious in intuitive choice.

You can't choose to be humble. You become humbled by the challenges (or lessons) that life gifts you with. Just remember that you hold all the cards in the game. Branching out is never a wise option if you are not centered. Do you see a tree start to grow and immediately branch as far as it can? That would be foolish since the roots cannot support it (your spiritual/physical/psychological foundation) and it will fall very hard.

You know all of this though, right? One piece of advice is: if you feel you need to wait for a certain time to be somebody you truly are, it's an illusion. There is no better time to do everything than RIGHT NOW.

:peace:
:aum:


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: OneU]
    #14585608 - 06/09/11 01:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i kind of skimmed through most of this so this isnt really directed at anyone in particular.


but when i was younger i dealth with anxiety and self esteem issues A LOT.

i got over it by mastering both the mind and the body.
exercise is medicine for your brain.

the only true path is the middle way.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


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Invisiblefarmer88
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: Milkycereal]
    #14587936 - 06/09/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Milkycereal said:
Thanks guys, really.

On ego "death"....


This is where i'm stuck though. I've been hiding from embaressment for so long that I have trouble branching out and taking risks, and when I do take a risk (lets say trying to make a joke or something) it doesn't come out right because i've already dwelled on what I was going to say too much.

Thanks again though




There is an easy fix for some of your issues.  Just shut up.  Easy.  Most people confuse silence for wisdom.  If you find yourself preparing to say something, the joke perhaps, don't do it.  You are trying to be someone else when you do that.  Those that you admire for their wit and humor, do you think they over-rehearse in their heads like you?  Nuh! 

Unless you have no hesitation and feel completely comfortable, shut the fuck up.  Don't take forced risks in most social settings, they will only make you stressed.  When you are stressed you cock up.  Instead, sit quietly and remind yourself that you are the same as them, they are not better than you, they are just noisier.  If you laugh at their wit and don't compete, that will be proof that you are the smartest dude there, because they think they are so smart and funny and you seem to agree!

Those who get the most laughs, talk the most and make the smartest comments are not always the most liked, they tend to be bores after you've heard all the stories.  Be still, smile and laugh at the jokes and stories, answer the inevitable questions that come your way because you haven't bored anyone.  "So...what do you think Milky?" 

The spontaneity will come gradually as your self confidence increases because you have said less silly unwanted things.  A self feeding improvement cycle built on minimal effort.  You will have an ever increasing comfort zone to expand into.


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OfflineJDB
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Re: Anxiety, self consciousness, and ego death [Re: farmer88]
    #14588839 - 06/10/11 02:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Milky just curious, how old are you? I used to suffer from this when I was in highschool, everything was so materialistic around me, I needed to have the "nice" clothes and had to be in with the cool crowd. It is not until I graduated high school that I realized none of that mattered at all. I work in a restaurant and it helped me get over the social anxiety. I always cared so much about how I looked to others.

I have a longer hairdo when everyone else seems to have gone short now and some people bust my balls about it saying I need a haircut and all. Instead of getting anxious or conforming to what those around me thought, I take pride in how I look. I intentionally keep my hair longer now because it's out of the norm nowadays. Of course there are those who have assumptions of you just by the way you appear, but I don't care in the slightest bit anymore. I am who I am and I take pride in my individuality.

I've truly learned to appreciate my features and how unique I am. I strive not to be like everyone else now.

I'm 21 years old and in college and my point to you is that you may just be in a phase that you will grow out of in time, just keep your head up and remember that you're you, weather people like it or not. Take pride in who you are and what God has given you.

Hope you can break the trend too:heart::heart::heart:


--------------------
"The world which we perceive is a tiny fraction of the world which we can perceive"


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