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Sexy.Butt.McDanger Registered: 03/12/02 Posts: 24,855 Loc: Pandurn Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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Touting it prominently as evidence of his ability to continue working on the economy seems like a counter-productive thing to do, considering that the steps the federal government had to take in order to produce that kind of success are never going to be achievable again, thus establishing that he doesn't have very many tools left to improve things in the short-to-mid term.
If he were smart, he'd start making a lot of concessions to the Republicans. There's a few Democrats in the Senate that would love the chance to get their asses out of the boiling pot they are in for reelection this year (in places like Nebraska and other tea-infused locales), so he'd even have the ability to pass all of that legislation. I don't think there would be any stopping him if he were to do that.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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imagine Registered: 06/16/08 Posts: 3,857 Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Last seen: 10 years, 2 months |
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Your politicians aren't so candid.
They aren't really making any decisions. They are merely a face to a background influence made up of the military industrial complex primarily. Watch your politicians candidly laugh about dropping some bombs on Lybia, a week before they 'NATO' repose on Quadaffi. -------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Unless the federal government decides they want to produce that kind of success again. Quote: START?!?!? ![]() Follow politics much??? That's all he does. Quote: What exactly are Republicans proposing, other to make put more and more burden on the middle class so the rich can keep their tax cuts??? -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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imagine Registered: 06/16/08 Posts: 3,857 Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Last seen: 10 years, 2 months |
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My country has already dropped 240 laser guided missile, on this no fly zone.
We are buying 1300 more, at an average cost of 100 000 dollars EACH. Our government won't even tell us who is reaping in the profits from this 1300 bomb contract, totalling roughly, 130 000 000 dollars. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sto Mind you this is all for use in Lybia. -------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Sexy.Butt.McDanger Registered: 03/12/02 Posts: 24,855 Loc: Pandurn Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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Quote: Federal government intervention in corporations like that is highly popular with the public and power-wielding Republicans nowadays. Quote: He's not doing nearly enough to save his own ass. Quote: Deep federal spending cuts, which is a pretty obvious answer when one follows the news.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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Why would anyone want to see him re-elected?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Success my ass:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/bl Not only is this bullshit but an even bigger bailout of the auto companies involved the rapine of their creditors through expedited and coerced bankruptcy proceedings. Who wouldn't be doing better if all of a sudden they no longer had loan interest payments to meet? And one other thing. Don't forget that taxpayers were forced to subsidize people buying cars through the cash for clunkers abomination. When are we gonna get that money back?
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Lol auto industry success:
-Force mgmt out -Force wage cuts on unions (obviously neededto be done, but still) -New CEO team makes drastic cuts -Profit yeah, i like how this new economy works. NOT
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: The author of that article is far more dishonest than Obama. I was going to write a rebuttal, but it was done for me already: Fact Checking the Fact Checker Quote: Do you think bankruptcy should be friendly to those going bankrupt? Quote: Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept of stimulus spending? -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Crush yo rating like yo butthole Registered: 04/14/11 Posts: 2,232 Loc: Between the perm |
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i blame this on monetary greed
take away the money, take away the incentive to commit crimes just saying
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Perhaps a few million jobs saved only appeals to power-wielding Democrats. Quote: He doesn't need to make the right or the left happy - he only needs to target the middle to get reelected. ![]() Quote: That's what I said.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Let's be real here. A few million jobs saved? Thats obscene. The administration passed a 700B+ stimulus package and I kept seeing CNN report a bunch of odds-and-ends jobs projects being started: "This renovation of the XYZ beach pier will add 19 jobs to the economy"...blah blah blah the stimulus was weaksauce on jobs. lol. a few million jobs saved by cash for clunkers.
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Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 3 months, 8 days |
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> the stimulus was weaksauce on jobs. lol. a few million jobs saved by cash for clunkers.
Yep... the CBO estimates that it cost $228,055 per job saved/created by the stimulus package. -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Ugly figure, but definitely not as bad as I expected. $228,055 is what it cost to keep an employee in a job: Minus the money the government will get back in income tax (that wouldn't otherwise exist) Minus the contribution of the economic activity resulting from the continued employment of these individuals (they spend money when they have a job) For simplicity's sake, i'll assume that takes the cost/person down to 200k. if they still have a job, and would've lost it to the recession, and the recession is still going on --- that 200k sounds like a few years wages ![]() i must say, i'm not as disappointed as I thought. big tiem.
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Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 3 months, 8 days |
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> i must say, i'm not as disappointed as I thought. big tiem.
I don't have the exact figure, but it has been estimated that over half of the jobs saved were government (state and federal) employees, with the bulk of them being teachers. I wouldn't be as upset at the number if it were four times smaller... the government picking up a portion of the cost to keep a person employed rather than picking up several times the cost. Regardless, in my mind, the vast majority of the stimulus spending as a huge waste of money with little to no return. -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: You cited the White House? ![]() ![]() Quote:Quote: No. Quote:Quote: ![]() Right. That worked real well. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/0 Quote: I cite the Washington Post and the NY Times, two extremely Dem friendly rags, as reporting that Obama is a lying liar and in rebuttal you provide Obama's mouthorgan as evidence. Some people just don't give a fuck, I guess. You'd probably still support him if he shot up a room full of school children. Kool-aid, anyone?.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Agreed. As usual, stimulus spending wasn't spent on the proper return-generating projects ![]() Is it ever? Lol @ obama's economic team leaving one-by-one
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Bans for Pleasure Registered: 03/26/03 Posts: 42,214 Loc: Seattle Last seen: 1 year, 2 months |
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Quote: The stimulus wasn't just about jobs. It was about the bridges, roads, water plants, etc., that we'll be driving on, across, or otherwise using for decades. The salaries paid were only a fraction of that. That price-per-job figure would also be a lot lower if many State governors had used it for its intended purpose instead of using it to balance their own state books, thereby not creating the infrastructure improvements and jobs it was intended to. At any rate, economists are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it prevented a total collapse of the economy at the time, while right-wing politicians are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it was a total waste. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as usual. It was a mistake to trust the State Governors to do the right thing with that chunk of our change with no strings attached. Some of them did, some didn't. RR -------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Oh yes. I will definitely agree with this. THe bailout was certainly necessary. Doesn't make it good at what it was supposed to be good at
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Economists are most definitely not in agreement about that, it is no surprise that state governments embezzled the money, and even the idiot Obama admitted that there are no shovel ready infrastructure jobs. What happened to sheriff Joe? he was supposed to ride herd on how the money was used. What that massive debt incursion produced was a disastrous chilling effect on businesses who knew good and goddamn well that they were gonna be cornholed with the bill down the road. It was an idiot plan by an idiot administration (I'm being charitable there, I really think they are evil not stupid). And then there is the health care fiasco which was another job killing horror.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: He wasn't talking about the bailout. Except for the auto companies we have made a profit on the bailout, even counting AIG. This is about the trillion dollar porkulus fiasco.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Ahhhhhhh ok.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Fine, that was estimate before the bailout assuming GM and Chrysler went out of business, and brought their suppliers down with them. Today, it seems that nearly all current articles I could find on the topic point to the Center for Automotive Research (CAR) report which says just over 1.4 million jobs were saved by the auto bailout. That's still a decent amount. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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find me some numbers NOT published by the people asking for money. kthnx.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Care to point out the falsehoods in that White House statement? Quote: Thank you. Quote: 1.4 million jobs saved ain't too shabby. Quote: I don't support him. But the auto bailout was necessary. Quote: How about this (The Wall Street Journal): Quote: So more than 70% believe the stimulus helped, while 11% believe it didn't. "Nearly unanimous"? -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side. Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/09/11 02:17 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: I found you the numbers that every article I could find on the subject references, which provides a fairly extensive analysis to back their numbers up. If you know of a better source of information, please share. If not, what are you basing your opinion on? -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 3 months, 8 days |
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Even if Obama is correct, it cost $14 billion to save 1 million jobs? Ouch...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: It is also fictitious. Production would have moved to other more competitive entities that the suppliers still would be supplying. Eliminating companies that can't compete does not eliminate the demand for their product. It just shifts it to companies that can compete. The number of jobs is not determined by who works for Chrysler and GM but by who works in the auto industry. Think of the jobs lost that other companies would have added in order to increase their production to replace the GM and Chrysler products. And all the jobs lost because money was taken from creditors who no longer have it which they maybe could have used to create, wait for it, OTHER JOBS. The auto bailout came out of TARP, not the trillion dollar Porkulus. The President is a lying fuck who thinks the voters are idiots. Some of them are.
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Stranger Registered: 06/09/11 Posts: 16 Last seen: 12 years, 11 months |
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zappaisgod, I was just about to say the same fucking thing. Thank the Universe for someone out there with half a brain.
The very term bailout should not be in our government's vocabulary. If you fail, you fail. Jobs are not permanent, ever. Jobs are not the federal government's problem. We need to create more wealth, more value to our society! Useless and undesired jobs don't do that. Government jobs don't do that. Tax cuts, less regulation, and more innovation do that. It is sickening to hear someone say we shouldn't have trusted the state governors because some did it right and some didn't...that is so fucking sick. That is the way it is supposed to be. 50 different ways of doing something and then let the way that works dissolve to the rest of the society. Really, we should start at the community and work up to the state and if absolutely necessary in the most dire situations we go to the federal government. Fuck the federal government, fuck obama, fuck bailouts, fuck social security, fuck medicare, fuck the EPA, fuck all government employees who aren't willing to take a pay cut, fuck all the other wasteful federal regulations that are completely sucking this country dry. We need to get the power out of D.C. before we're all fucked.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: This is actually understood by the Center for Automotive Research:
Quote: I'm thankful too. It makes it easy for those with a full brain.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Ummm, I think most of the people in this thread have forgotten that when Chrysler and GM "paid" back this money that they paid it with another loan that they got from the U.S. government, just a different "account". If you took $1000 loan out on your credit card and then got another card from the same bank and used it to pay your previous card off then you would be paying it back just like they did. Oh wait thats right you wouldn't be paying anything. Also for those of you in here that think the "rich" should be taxed more to relieve some of that burden the middle class pays, read. If you would do the slightest bit of research you would know that because of rich people and those "evil" corporations making "obscene" profits, you have a much easier and better quality life. When is the last time you paid $40000 in property taxes? Oh thats right never, but you probably got to use some of that $40000 when you sent your kid to school, when did you last right out a check at the end of the year to the U.S. Treasury for $25000 on top of the $30000 plus they stole from you during the year? Oh wait, I bet you never have, but when you drove to work this morning you got to look at those $3000 signs telling you what exit you are getting off of. If you think the rich have it so easy then start providing a good or service that people are willing to pay you for so you can make a million? It is just so easy right? Selfishness is a virtue, if not for those "greedy" "scumbags" some of you are so fond of calling them, your life would suck, you would have no computer to be on right now, you would have no cars, no flat screen 50" plasmas, no "free" health-care, stop blaming them because you are poor and want something for nothing. Most millionaires in this country are self made, lots of hard work, or a really great idea is how they got there, usually a lot of both. They did not get rich by fleecing anyone, they got rich by providing you with something that you were willing to pay them for. Stop buying there goods and services and they will be broke like you want them to be.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Zappa and FinkPloyd thanks for not believing this same tired rhetoric.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: The links above say you're wrong. Care to share your source, or are you making your facts up? Quote: I agree. For those of you that do the slightest bit of research, that's what you'd know. On the other hand, for those of you that did a lot more research, or got a college degree in business or economics, then you'd know better. Ever wonder why the country's top colleges are so liberal? Quote: Welcome to civilized society where all citizens can go to school and share the roads with the rich. Are you against this? Quote: It’s relatively easy if you come from a rich family. If not, starting your own business is more difficult, but achievable. Quote: Actually, there wasn’t a significant middle class until after Government made the “New Deal” and passed laws that strengthened the power of organized labor. Quote: And it should stay that way. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Under the financing terms announced last week, Chrysler secured $3.2 billion in bonds, a $3 billion term loan and a $1.3 billion revolving credit facility. The company also received $1.3 billion in cash from Fiat in exchange for its stock purchase. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB
There is your link for the "repayment" I did make up the WSJ though. . . So how is your life not better because of rich people" Do you live in a mud hut and use your brain to log on the web? And what do colleges being liberal have anything to do with anything? Libs could run every school, it does not make them right. I am against it, no one should have to pay a dime for someone else to be educated, if you want yourself or your children to learn, teach them or pay for them to go to school, education and transportation are not proper roles for government to assume. It is not easy, not even relatively, to start or maintain a successful buss iness if you come form a rich family. Any new endeavor is tough, regardless of your economic background, G.W. Bush Jr. failed miserably in the oil buss iness, even with millions in backing. As far as the New Deal goes, what a joke, giving unions the power to hold a company hostage was a terrible idea. Why should employees working for a company be able to hold it hostage? It is there company and no one else has a right to say how they conduct themselves in the workplace, if they make a policy you do not like, leave. No one comes to your house and rounds you up for work, it is a voluntary choice.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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I forgot to ask, for anyone in here that thinks that it was necessary for any of the bailouts, are you in your parents basement right now, eating a tv dinner mom made you and smoking some dope that you bought with the allowance your parents doled out to you?
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: I read the article and it disproves your point. They paid the loan back with private financing, not "with another loan that they got from the U.S. government" as you claimed. Quote: I've earned millions of dollars for my company, making the owners better off. I've done them a big favor; it's not nearly as much the other way around. Quote: You obviously haven't attended a top college. Students are taught how the scientific method works, and how to think for themselves. They don't just swallow what the rich try to make them think. Quote: So you're saying we should be more like Sudan, Congo, Chad, etc. Quote: Agreed - it's not "easy", but "easier". It takes money to make money. Quote: So they can get fair wages, that's why. Quote: Work is most definitely not voluntary. Do you think people work for the fun of it? People have no choice if they want decent food shelter, and healthcare. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Yeah I think that I am going to end my conversation with you here, you obviously are wearing some awesome rose colored shades. If you look into the finances you will see the loans are coming only from companies that have taken TARP funds, so I am pretty sure they are still borrowing taxpayer dollars.
If you think you are doing them a favor then quit, start your own company and earn your own millions. I highly doubt you have earned them even one million, if you had then you would know how hard it is to produce that much wealth. No I have not, I have no need for a "top" college, I am not sure how much a degree from Yale could help me compared to my degree from culinary school and Xavier. Oh wait, thats right, Xavier is a top college for business in this country. Yes that is exactly what I am saying, we should kill each other because of our religious beliefs and denounce science, physics, and philosophy. We should also begin having sex with virgins to cure AIDS, sounds like a great idea. No I just do not agree with having to pay for someone elses child to learn while I could be saving that money for my children's private school fund. It is not the role of government to provide educational resources. There are two things a government is good for, mitigating contracts and defense. THATS IT! People can get fair wages without robbing a company of its right to conduct business, they may have to work for it though, you probably do not like that idea though. You must be against that if you think that holding a company hostage is an ok way to earn your wealth. Agh, my favorite, work is not voluntary!!! ROFLMAO!!! It is COMPLETELY voluntary, no one puts a gun to your head and says work or die, not in this country. Your response is perfect, "Work is most definitely not voluntary. Do you think people work for the fun of it? People have no choice if they want decent food shelter, and health care." Ummm, yes, in the literal sense people do work for the "fun" of it. Not the job itself but they work so they can have "fun" and enjoy there life. You know to buy things, like a house, a car, porn, drugs, a dog, whatever it is that you want to make you happy. Anyone that spouts off that money cannot buy happiness just does not know what to buy, it most definitely does buy happiness, you just have to know what you want. Oh and you kind of proved my point about it being voluntary when you said "they have no choice IF THEY WANT, decent food, shelter, and health care. Those things are not needed for survival, you could have crappy food, no health care, and be homeless and still survive. They make a choice to either have or have not those things, all by themselves! Money does not corrupt men, men corrupt there money.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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I also forgot to ask, what about the 5.1 billion that they "borrowed" from taxpayers in January 09'? They must have paid that already and just not said anything. Obviously our government and the company who borrowed the money to save them from going under would not lie to us. If bailing them out was really going to work then why are we doing it again so soon for Chrysler? They did this just a hair over twenty years ago and lok where we are at now. Great job!
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: So fucking what. My parents worked hard and have money, and now i get to use it to help myself. YOU DONT GET TO 'EVEN TEH PLAYING FIELD' JUST BECUASE YOU CAME OUT ON TEH SHITTY END OF THE GODDAMN STICK. Fuck redistribution of wealth.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Nope. Never have wondered because I know why. By and large they don't have the balls to put their talents, if they have any, at risk. This is also one of the reasons why colleges in the United States have some of the most extreme free speech restrictions found anywhere in the country. They are a largely cowardly population. And it isn't just the top colleges. It is almost all of them. This pattern can also be found in the entertainment industry and the news media. Those that can't do teach or criticize. It isn't that hard to do either one.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Before you end your conversation, please show evidence that the Italian automaker Fiat recieved TARP money as you claim. If you don't answer, then I can understand why you've ended your conversation (you can't find evidence). Quote: I'd love to. It would cost tens of millions to start a company in the industry I'm in. I wasn't paid enough in my previous job to be able to afford it. Quote: Actually, I was being conservative. I earned several hundred million dollars for my previous company (Siemens). Yes, I know how hard it was, and then they fucked me with a mere 25% raise. My vice president, on the other hand, and those above him made a huge amount of money off my work, although they weren't even involved in my project. (If you're interested in how I earned the company that much, I'm happy to share.) Quote: I'm saying the top colleges attract smarter people, and the top colleges are very liberal. Quote: Look, I'm not saying #115 in the country is bad, but it's not what I meant by top college. Quote: I can't name a single civilized society where that's NOT a role of Government. Can you? Only the countries I provided. Quote: Actually, I do like the idea of working hard for a fair wage. Employers will NEVER give a fair wage if they don't have to. My current company earns an average of $650,000/year per employee. Most people don't even make one quarter of that. The reason? Not because the employees aren't worth it. We're actually told our salaries are based on the "going rate" for our positions, not on the profits we make. They know we can't quit and make more elsewhere because everyone else pays the "going rate". Quote: That's because in this country, we have liberal laws that ensure your basic survival. That wouldn't be the case in your dream country. Work would be mandatory. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: That's up to the voters. And no one's proposing to "EVEN" the playing field, just level it slightly. Quote: The top colleges attract the most brilliant minds in the country. Nobel laureates are frequently professors at top colleges. If you think you anyone can teach at Harvard that wants to, you're sadly mistaken. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stranger Registered: 06/09/11 Posts: 16 Last seen: 12 years, 11 months |
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Ooh...you're so smart! Congratulations on going to a "top college."
College is a fucking scam. The teaching is biased and you come out dumber than when you went in. Ever heard of self-education? Most of the rich people in the U.S. are just that, sefl-driven, self-educated, creative, and willing to work hard. Intelligence is not even a definable concept. Our silly little standardized tests are a pitiful attempt to distinguish how smart people are. People have talents that can't be summed up by some stupid test or by how well they submit to their socialist public schooling system.
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: I guess the president would never lie to the american people from your link Quote: seems there's 16000 fewer jobs in the auto industry than there were in 2009, not 130,000 more jobs http://www.cleveland.com/busines http://cei.org/op-eds-articles/o oh, wait a minute... here's how they added 130,000 more jobs in the auto industry, somehow Obama must be seeing Mexico as one of the 57 states http://www.voanews.com/english/n http://latino.foxnews.com/latino http://www.industryweek.com/arti http://www.reuters.com/article/2 http://www.cleveland.com/busines let's not forget about the Obama Flagshit car, the Chevy Volt and how the Obama administration is allowing for dealers to scam the tax payers in order to claim a boost in sales numbers for the car no one wants, a whopping 35 miles per 7 hour charge and only gets 35mpg, well below the 93mpg the EPA has claimed and a far cry from GMs 230mpg claim http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com http://pricinginsider.carsdirect
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: I doubt you're rich enough to ever have any sort of your wealth "redistributed." Working hard rarely creates the wealth that people are talking about here. But if you are that wealthy, what do you suppose the people on "the shitty end of the goddamn stick" do? Why don't your parents (who I would assume own some sort of business if they are as wealthy as you claim) hire more people bro? Is the extra $40k in salary per person gonna run all your money out? You sound like a goddamn spoiled brat, OH MY PARENTS WORKED HARD FOR ALL THESE YEARS NOW I CAN TAKE A DAMN BREAK BECAUSE NOW THAT WE HAVE MONEY, MORE MONEY JUST ROLLS IN. It doesn't take a genius, or even an ounce of hard work to turn a million into ten, what takes work is to get to that first mil. Something that you will NEVER be able to experience, because you obviously don't have any intentions on working hard.
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: apparently you have no understanding of how a business operates, that $40k per person could put them out of business especially if they already have sufficient staff, then it's $40k each year that's pissed away to have someone do nothing Quote: you like flaming? I bet you like bans too Quote: lol... 50 years ago that may have been true, today it's that first $20 million that's the hard work, after that the millions can roll in
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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College is a fucking scam. The teaching is biased and you come out dumber than when you went in.
My sister went to college and came out an engineer and makes, what is to me anyway, mega bucks. Not bad for someone who came out dumber than she went in. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: I'm troubled how you think that somehow when our country has an official unemployment rate of over 9% (I can't even imagine what the actual number is) you would think that hiring a person (there is ALWAYS room for more to be done, somewhere in a business) for $40k/yr is somehow "pissed away". You don't get rich by banking $40k a year. You have to remember who I replied to, and the situation being talked about. Apparently, meams is wealthy enough to have his wealth redistributed, meaning $40k a year is a drop in the bucket. Quote: "you sound like a spoiled brat" ?? Really, thats the bar we're going to set as flaming? If so I guess I'll have to watch myself a little closer. Quote: Different numbers, same concept.
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: a ban? for speaking his opinion? 40k a year? this is the auto industry we are talking about, not the sharpie marker factory business. they make like a billion a year, and run a surprisingly limited number of factories, probably under 100. and now that automotive plants are almost entirely automated, the amount of workers is bare minimum. a few janitors a few managers and enough people to work the automated machines(basically press start and stop at the end of the day) what costs these companies so much are inspections, engineers, etc. they have to pay millions to engineers to stay in the top line with competitive automotive companies, also paying people to inspect the machines and make sure they are working properly each month. and also if the things break, you need engineers to come in and fix them, and inspectors to come verify they are fixed afterwards, to get your certificate up to speed. now let me tell you something. you know who loses when the government raises the minimum wage? well, the government doesn't. now minimum wage doesn't make up 40k a year, obviously. but this whole argument on "the government loses when the minimum wage goes up" is totally incorrect. who do they have to pay minimum wage to? electric company personell? librarians? they are going to be losing so much money? dude, only greed thinks like that. you don't have to be the chief economist to realize, that the government doesn't lose on raising the minimum wage ever. the government doesn't need a sale to be over a certain amount of money, or under a certain amount of money, to make money on it. they get paid a percentage of a sale by the penny. if you sell someone a .10 cent piece of bubblegum, they make .2 cents off it. when peoples pay checks go up, they tax more money. they don't depend on one set of sales, they depend on their taxes. people can't buy houses? if people got paid more they could buy more houses. or at least they'd spend more money, helping small business owners, who would in turn buy more houses. really the fact is, only business owners themselves suffer from paying higher minimum wage, and usually the smaller business who aren't making as much money, which the government doesn't care much about. in terms of money the government makes, they shouldn't care less about small business or big business. they tax it all. they should be concerned over who is selling the most pay checks, they tax each pay check. would you rather tax ten pay checks, with each tax revenue being $100 for 10% of each thousand dollar pay check? making a total of $1000 in revenue? or would you rather tax three hundred pay checks, with tax revenue from each check being $10 for 10% of each $100 pay check, with tax revenue being $3000 in total? at the end of the year, one of those equations is going to equal 3 billion, while the other one is going to equal 1 billion total revenue profit. does it take a chief economist to understand that? or are people just to stubborn to realize you can't argue with correct calculations. -------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: for some people $40k a year is barely under what their business totals every year. but yes in that situation it is a drop in the bucket to a billion a year industry. now if you are paying so many employees over 40k a year, obviously 40k multiplied over and over and over and over and over equals a billion, and you need to pay for other things as well. I don't know what the cost of material for making all those cars is, but I'm guessing it's like drops in the bucket compared to what each car sells for. I used to trade aluminum for like a few dollars a pound. I thought that was a lot of money, but aluminum is light, after filling up my car with aluminum, I realized once I got to trade it in, I'd only made about $100. a good bit but how much of that goes into each car? and that's aluminum we are talking about, most other metals are cheaper. most of these cars sell for $thousands. count that. also, remember, you can get banned now for disagreeing with a moderator? the problem with politics, is the same problem you face on this forum, you point out obvious fallacies, and people disagree with you just because they aren't willing to do the math. what is more obviously greedy, selling a house for a million and keeping most of the profit? or taxing a penny of one hundred million sales, and no one barely notices you in the background, counting pennies until your eyes bleed, and buying up all the stocks for yourself, and giving back to no one. apparently it's not illegal to keep money you made off a fair transaction. but when people are starving to death, and you are making hundreds of millions off of bonus checks, I think it's kind of hard to feel that people like that couldn't be reinvesting into the community. and obviously people who reinvest, tend to get interest back anyway. it's a win win situation when done right, when done correctly, it's nice and neat. but anyhow greed can blind anybody. -------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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I can hear that but one problem is giving back to the community is risky cause many don't deserve our help.
Let's say some guy is pan handling on the corner. You got plenty and it's not problem to spare him a buck or two and you get to feel good for helping the down and out. Problem is he beats his dog and his wife and he's a thief and quit his job because he didn't like anyone telling him his work quality was poor. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: know why so many companies have gone under, too many billions in labor being pissed away, it becomes a matter of lay them off or close up shop, wasnt Obama promising the unemployment rate wouldnt rise above 8% when he hopped of the campaign trail to vote for a stimulus package that would provide shovel ready jobs, and what of the other two stimulus packages that were supposed to put americans back to work, just like the auto industry bail outs that were supposed to keep the doors of the auto plants in the US opened and keep those jobs here maybe you need to lay this spiel on the commander in chief and not meams' mom Quote:Quote: Different numbers, same concept. so other than getting a bailout, how will we get that $20mil
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Stranger Registered: 06/09/11 Posts: 16 Last seen: 12 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Learning a skill and making money is different than becoming a more intelligent person who can make informed, historically educated and unbiased decisions in life. Which can be pretty important when people can vote on things that affect other people's lives. School was supposed to be about learning about life and becoming an overall more educated person. A step towards self-actualization. A place to learn and discuss all the things that make an educated person: history, math, science, philosophy, art, current events. You don't have to go to school to learn a job, you can be trained to do a job. Being an engineer your sister probably had a lot of math and science which would make her more educated, but that doesn't mean she didn't get a biased education. It doesn't mean she was given all of the tools to be an informed person. It doesn't mean she didn't either though, I'm just saying... School is setup for people to get jobs now, instead of being focused on producing holistically informed individuals.
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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I agree somewhat but that's not really how you put it in your other post.
![]() ![]() My sister is not dumb. She might be emotionally stunted though and that might support your claim. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: since when was school ever teaching people about life? school has always provided a basic education in several areas as you've mentioned, it's up to a student to learn about life and to further their education beyond the basics that school taught
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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Psychology, ethics, sociology ?
And imo it should include the study of personal life. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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wouldnt psychology and sociology be part of the sciences, wouldnt ethics be a
part of civics which is closely connected to US history
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Sorry my friend. it seems you don't seem to have the best reading comprehension. From your own post: "The two automakers employ 16,500 fewer people than they did in 2009." Two automakers don't make the "auto industry". Care to try again in finding anything in that rebuttal that was false? -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: If you take away the money the only substitute is the muzzle of a gun, Fransisco D'anconia. Money is not the incentive for crime, wanting something for nothing is. greed is what makes humans great, if not for greed then you would not be on the internet right now.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: Actually I am a three time loser, I have had three DUIS in the past six years and I have never made more that $37000 on paper, I wait tables in a restaurant and do not even talk to my father because he is a liberal bitch who thinks he has a right to other peoples money. My mon is in college now and I help her pay the bill. I could not help but laugh when I read your response on me having no intentions of working hard. I grow shitake to sell at the local farmers market, I wait tables, I am studying now to be a top notch chef, I cut grass in my spare time to earn money and I do not have a license. I do anything I can to make money because I love it. I have never taken a penny I was not owed and I am pretty sure that my step mom is the only person in my family to earn more than $60000 a year. I plan on changing that, I will do whatever is necessary to make sure my family has everything they want, on my dime, no one elses.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Thinking like this is very dangerous, no one with 1 or 20 million just has money rolling in without work or risk, usually both, maybe you should fact check before making such absurd claims.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: never said Fiat did, they make up less than 50% of the investors as of now in Chrysler though. Maybe you did not read that. If you where not paid enough then you shoukld have quit. If you really wanted to start your own comapny then you could have, it would have been small but you could have if you where that good. So what is a top college and who did the rating? Oh yeah a lib who thinks that they have a right to my money. Once agian just because the majority thinks it is ok does not make it right, if I got 151 million people to agree you should die does that make it right? Fuck no. Yes it would be mandatory if you wanted to have a home, tvs, a car, and good food. That is a given you have to do something for something, in your dream world a few work for the benefit of the rest and most people would do nothing for something. And as far as being paid less than what your worth you are sort of correct. No comapny in there right mind would pay you more than you are worth, even Rush Limbaugh with his $400 million dollar contract is not paid what he is "worth", if they did oay him exactkley what he was worth they would not make any money and they would go broke .
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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just 25% huh, maybe you should have invested it. I can gaurenfuckingT you that it did not cost tens of millions of dollars to start Siemens, it would not cost that today either. You jst want to make excuses.
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: so can you show me where ford put on 100,000 people in their US plants? or maybe where hundreds of dealerships opened back up to sell the chevy volt
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: You're "studying" to be a "top notch chef"... Good luck with that, and when you're working in a kitchen at T.G.I. Friday's for 9.50 an hour let me know about your outlook when you're looking to start a family . I know very few of the "liberal bitch"es like your father that believe they are entitled to anybody else's money. Three DUI's is gonna put you in a hard ass spot when it comes to making real money, because an employer is going to see that and see you for what you are. You gonna start your own business? Have fun getting the startup capital. It is unfortunate that your love for the private sector doesn't allow for cheap, accessible health care, or healthy, wholesome foods for a just price, quality, affordable education (ever seen the price of a private school, even for kids who grew up just down the street for one?), or even a fucking job that pays a livable wage for the 10% of Americans that are currently out of employment. They would rather pay their CEO multi-million dollar severance packages so the next sheep in line can get a slice of the pie, and then quit two years later for an even better severance package. No modern economists with any sort of merit believe a truly free market system can ever succeed. Maybe it is the "liberal bitch"es who make it so it won't, but your economic ideology is one of the past. Quote: I think maybe you should both fact check and read what I actually said. There is no hard work in making investments in the stock market, and once you have capital such as this $1-20million range we are discussing, if you do it right, there is very little risk to lose it all, and if you don't come away with some sort of earnings, you're not doing it right. It doesn't take a genius to invest properly. Maybe a reality check is in order for you as well. But then again, the whole stock market thing to me is another way of wealth redistribution. Yes, a person can invest $100 into a company, but even if the price of the share multiplies increase to 1000% of their investment value, they will only make as much money as somebody who invests a million dollars that only increases 1% of their initial investment (my math may be off , but the concept is what you seem to not understand). If a person with a million dollar investment loses 1%, not a big deal, but even though the said person who started with $100, and now has $1100, would need to bank on two or three more stocks raising 1000% (do you understand how much this actually is for a stock share to increase? I'm pretty sure in the short term, it is almost impossible), and buying out each time after they hit the "jackpot", they now somehow only have as much money as the person who started with $1,000,000. If that million were invested in the same stocks, the original million dollars would be turned into BILLIONS. And this is all on the back of the person that is unemployed, because not hiring one more person increases that stock share ever so slightly. If their heirs do it right, they'll never have to work a day in their life, while still raking in more and more money. If that isn't exactly the same thing you accuse "liberals" of doing to the "wealthy," than I'll be damned. Quote: HA, why don't you quit your job because you "aren't getting paid enough". That is ABSURD. I've done it before and it was the worst decision of my life, because even if you aren't getting paid ENOUGH, at least you are still getting SOMETHING. That is a lot more than a lot of people can say right now, and you seem to ignore that fact. Are you really trying to question what is a "top college?" Are you really trying to suggest they are only good because a "liberal" rated them that way... Did you even go to ANY college? How exactly is a person who lives paycheck to paycheck supposed to start their own business man? A loan? HAHA, the banks don't loan money any more, even though they were given billions and billions and BILLIONS of dollars in bailout money, they (once again) gave their CEOs fat severances, and "pissed" the money away (as Pris would say). Then they decide to raise their fees, introduce new fees, and lower your interest rates. HMMMM... Sounds like a great plan (private sector does have the best plans to make themselves money! Remember how the Fed is a private instituation???). I'm sure a lot more than 151 million people thought Osama Bin Laden should die, are you saying he didn't deserve it? I don't know a single, respectable person (although there are many that abuse the system) that receive some sort of food-stamp or welfare-type assistance that wouldn't rather work for an honest, fair wage, and provide for their own families. You obviously don't understand the position that many of these people are in (once again, the great private sector won't hire), and what else would you expect? Allow them to populate the streets and starve to death? Before that would happen, we would see a REAL revolt in this country, and since everybody is armed, there would be some serious issues. It is funny because any sort of compensation given to Rush Limbaugh for his "work" is more than he is worth. Obviously, since that was the first name you thought to use in such a situation, you are a big fan, which I now understand where your tired, outdated rhetoric is coming from. You realize that good ol' Rush was born into money, RIGHT? He never had to work a damn day in his life (never got that important education you seem to talk about, dropping out of college after one year), and was able to "piss away" upwards of $5,000 a day on PRESCRIPTION PAIN KILLERS. I don't even know how I would spend $5,000 in a single month, or even 6 months, let a lone a damn day, on some drugs. Finally, nobody is saying you need to pay somebody what their net worth is, but the fact of the matter is, they aren't even getting paid what their actual contribution to a corporation is worth, and that is not even in the slightest bit of fair (and I'm not one to EVER bitch about "fairness"). When life isn't fair because thats how the deck was shuffled, so be it, when life isn't fair because you're getting boned in the ass by a corporation making record profit, thats downright unjust.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Ok I guess I can start with your claim thatI will only make 9.50 an hour at TGIFridays, I make more than that now waiting tables. I can and will make more because I will not let anything stop me from doing so. I am responsible for my life and no one else, if I have to work twenty hour days to achieve this I will.
What does three duis make me? A loser that can never make enough money to start a business? I do not think so, they will see someone who has been down and out that has worked long and hard to dig themselves out of a deep fucking whole that I dug. Start up capital will not be borrowed, I will save it myself, I save every penny I can and do not spend frivolous. I can do it as long as I continue to work hard and follow my plan. Yes I know how much private school costs and yes my children will be enrolled in one. It is worth it to me to have less now so they can have more later. If you think it is easy and there is little risk involved in the stock market then you could turn your hundred into a thousand and the thousand into a million no problem, let me know how that works out. Healthcare is so expensive due to government regulation, if not for current regulations we would not have to pay nearly as much. A free market has never existed in the history of human kind so how on earth can anyone say that it would not work? You are saying that humans are innately greedy and that without regulation we could not exist as humans and attempt to better our own lives. That is all a free market allows, for you to do your best and either fail or succeed, at your own expense, no one elses. I do not think that even you have any idea what you are saying about Osama dyeing, please explain your point so I can refute it. If they wanted to live on there own accord and not receive welfare they would get a menial job or two, maybe even three to pay for there own needs. I have been homeless and without a penny to my name before, guess what, I got a fucking job. I have planted tobacco for %5 an hour, I have cleaned toilets for minimum wage, and have spent countless days mowing yards for half of what others charged so that I could support myself. I know what it is like to be down and out, I never once thought others owed me a moment of the ree life because they happen to be better off at the moment. Let me know the next time you sleep in the woods and wear the same clothes for days at a time without bathing because of your poor decisions. I have been there, and never will be again, if not for those rich people I would still be doing those things. They made it possible for me to have what I do today, by purchasing the goods and services I provided. As far as Rush in concerned I am not a fan, I think he is a hypocritical pompous ass that will not stick to his own personal beliefs because he fears alienating his audience, I used him as a frame of reference because almost everyone knows of him. I think his drug habit is none of anyones business, it was his money to do with what he pleased. If you wanted to smoke $50000 WORTH OF CRACK A DAY, IAM ALL FOR IT. It is your life and money, not mine, do as you pleaseAs long as you are not harming me or anyone else you should be free to do as you please. And just so we are clear, a corporation makes a profit buy selling something, either a good or service for you to consume, if you do not purchase these things they do not make a profit. It is not unjust to give people an option. You make think it is, but i is not.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Zappa's original article, which attempts to be critical of Obama, confirms that 113,000 jobs were created: Quote: There was no claim by Obama or anyone else that Ford hired 100,000 American workers. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Those jobs did not come into creation due to the bailouts though. They came about due to increased demand for the products they provide, nothing else. The bailout did little more than give an ailing industry money to feed its bad habits. The foreign companies that are included in the 113,000 jobs created did not recieve TARP funds, so how can those numbers be atrributed to the success of the bailout.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: May I ask how old you are? It seems you're buying into the corporate hamster wheel where "eventually some day I will have enough money to make it big" ... Except you won't. And the fact that no employer is going to see you as "someone who worked long and hard" they're going to see three DUIs and the next application that has 0. You were homeless without a penny? You must have looked great walking into that interview, but I don't believe your story for a second to begin with, so it is a moot point. So people with children are supposed to, instead of raising them, work twenty hours a day to make ends meet? You realize that this isn't even physically possible to sustain for more than MAYBE couple of weeks, right? What did you say your education level was again? Sorry to bust your bubble but there are a lot more forces in play than you either ignore or don't understand (your personal corporate wheel must be located in a cave somewhere), but you're not gonna be making much more money than you do right now waiting. Do you accept tips????? BECAUSE THAT IS YOU TAKING ANOTHER PERSON'S DOLLAR, you get paid a wage, don't be reaching your hand in those rich customer's pockets and taking more money from them! You planted tobacco for $5 an hour? Was this before a minimum wage of at least 5.15 was in place? Because anybody else would have opened their eyes and sued the fuck outta someone for not paying minimum wage. All this in your own words, now let me quote Quote: And exactly what quality of life were you living while making five dollars an hour, or scrubbing toilets for minimum wage, or "half of what others charged" ? What if you had a child to support man? And to say that the government regulations are what keeps medical costs so high is a huge fallacy. The reason health care costs are so high is GREED, on the back of sick people. I looked at an insurance statement once, and I had a half hour doctors visit that would have cost me over $300. That's ten dollars a minute. Ten dollars a minute. TEN DOLLARS A MINUTE. You're saying that is due to government regulation? You're out of your damn mind if you for one second believe that. The government tells doctors to charge TEN DOLLARS A MINUTE? No, the insurance companies do because they can extort more people if they make them fearful of what "actual costs" would be. Oh and this startup capital you plan on saving... I have worked in the food industry my entire life, and I have not seen ONE PERSON, save up enough money to go start their own business. Wait. I did meet this guy who had previously quit his position to start his own business... and then it FAILED, and he was right back where he was, except with no money to his name. Just remember, next time somebody leaves you that gracious tip, explain to them that you do not accept handouts, and ask them to either take it back or donate it to a more noble cause, like an inheritance for their dog. You claim that as long as you don't harm anyone else your fine, but, you don't see any of the harm being done to this nation by the flow of wealth and its consolidation amongst a group of 500 or so individuals, while the rest of the nation suffers in the worst recession since the great depression? Come on now... And you plan on sending your child to a private school? Are you going to be doing that on a server's wage? There is a reason there has never been a totally free market, because every time a market shifts towards a free market, shit starts going to hell. Communist and socialistic societies have faired better than markets that head toward purely capitalistic throughout history. It just won't work, the greed of the wealthy is too much, and we end up right back in a plutocracy, but that sounds ideal to you, right? Quote: You're hurting your cause here... Private companies... Shipping jobs over seas... Jobs Americans used to have... But it's all about profit...
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: You said "most of the people in this thread have forgotten that when Chrysler and GM "paid" back this money that they paid it with another loan that they got from the U.S. government, just a different 'account'." I felt you were making that up and asked for proof. You then sent me a link entitled "Fiat to buy remaining US stake in Chrysler" which said "Italian automaker Fiat SpA said Friday that it will buy the Treasury's remaining stake in Chrysler Group LLC, freeing the automaker of U.S. government ownership. The Turin, Italy-based company notified the U.S. Treasury that it will exercise an option to buy the government's 6 percent stake." What do you mean you never said Fiat bailed Chrysler out??? I just quoted your own link! You not only made up the fact that Chrysler Government loans were paid off by other Government loans, but you also made a false claim that you never said Fiat repaid them. Quote: I did quit, but that didn't increase my salary. And no, I never could have have started a small company that builds the multi-million dollar equipment I was making. Quote: Can you provide evidence that college ratings are done by liberals, or are you making up your facts yet again? Quote: I agree. We have a death penalty in this country. Whether it's right or not is irrelevant; but it's there because the majority of Americans support it. Quote: Now you're not only making things up, you're sounding dumb. In my "dream world", I get paid a fair wage for my work, not the lowest "going rate" that business owners dole out so they can reap all the benefits of my hard work. Quote: Nor should they. Quote: If you think Rush should be paid more than $400 million, then I assume you're a HUGE fan, and now I understand where you learned to make up your facts. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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PileusSonofGalt, I hate to tell you, but you are officially on my ignore list. You are so blindly optimistic that working hard will pay off, yet all I have to say is "Work smart, not hard" the top 10% of Americans control roughly 70% of the wealth and once again, I hate to break it to you, but you will never, ever, EVER, reach that level. No matter how hard you work, you won't make it.
There is no point in any more discussion with you, because your belief that somehow this is a just society, where hard work and a good education will somehow reward you, is completely false and there is no data to back up your assertion. It's okay, I'll never make it to that top 10%, but at least when I have money, I spend it, making sure that the guy working at the local mom and pop store still has a job tomorrow, because I am helping pay for his wage by spending my money. I find it funny that you have the mentality of the ultra-wealthy, but you don't have nor will you ever have enough money to ever be considered one of them. You hoard your money, stuck in a lie to yourself that somehow you're going to save enough money cutting grass for half the price, planting tobacco for under minimum wage, scrubbing toilets for minimum wage, and serving at a restaurant to launch a business. How exactly are you going to run a business, when you don't even see the issues with the way today's business are being run. There is a reason small businesses have been hurt the most in the recession: market share. Multinational corporations ran by the ultra-rich force these stores to close, because they can't provide the same cheap goods that so greatly increase the holy profit you seem to put on a pedestal. If you do someday, somehow, by luck start your own business, are you going to pay your employees minimum wage? Let me tell you, you pay for minimum wage work, you will get minimum wage work. People don't go to wal-mart for the friendly employees, they go there for cheap prices. There is a reason these companies never allow you to reach full time, so they don't have to pay you more and provide benefits. All in the name of profit. However, as a small business, you will NOT have the luxury to be able to treat employees with the same level of disrespect, and you too will fail, just like the rest. It tells a lot about self worth what you are able to do for $5 an hour. It doesn't say anything good about how you value yourself. You admit you are a loser, and only a loser would be satisfied with doing work for half the pay that it demands. Just like you say that you don't have to buy a product from a company, you don't have to work for less than what you deserve to make for a job. This isn't desperation, this isn't "whatever it takes" mentality, this is allowing yourself to be extorted, in the same way that the top 1% of the people who control 30%+ of the wealth in the nation have been extorting the average citizen for a long time. You are doing NOTHING but reaffirming these actions, that someone out there will do it because they find themselves "desperate" enough. Once again, it is not desperation, but defeat. You allow yourself to be taken advantage of and you had no issue with it, and you still don't. If somehow you do start your business, remember how it felt to be treated with as little respect as you were treated, to not even be paid a wage that you could live on. But of course, it's all about profits, so obviously you won't give a fuck. Go hire the Mexican for $4/hr so he can send 90% of it back to Mexico. At least you will be saving $3.50/hr, and a penny saved is a penny earned. People with your thought process make me sick that you can have an outlook on humanity this way, even though you were for some reason okay with leaving an animal $12,000,000 (more money than you would earn in three of your lifetimes), you don't think that a human should be given the dignity and respect of an honest wage. So, when eventually realize that what you are describing, and what you currently believe in, will lead to a very bleak future, for a country that after the 'socialist' FDR implemented his 'socialist policies' was revitalized and brought closer as a community. These programs were then deregulated, towards your ideal free market, and look where we are today. Back before your beloved private sector bought out the government, and there were Americans being employed by American companies, not chinese children, or indians. When eventually your restaurant closes, because nobody has any more money togo out to eat because none of them have jobs, and the top 10% controls 95% of the wealth, maybe you'll understand that your thought process will do nothing for this country, and in turn, this country will do nothing for you.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: If the bailouts didn't happen, Chrysler and GM would no longer exist today. Quote: What "foreign companies" are you referring to? If you mean US based suppliers, they did indeed benefit from the bailout, as GM and Chrysler buy parts from them. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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I am twenty seven, I did not look good, and it was not really an interview, I went to the Waffle House in town and asked every person I saw if they needed somework done. I eventually found work with a guy who was willing to pay me $5 an hour in cash for planting tobacco. He let me live in his barn until I could save enough money to get my own place. I work now for OSI, easily one of the largest restaurant groups in the world, it took me several weeks to convince my current GM to give me a job, but I got it. It took a lot of hard work and persistence to get my foot in the door.
Sorry but accepting a tip left by another human being of free will is not TAKING, they paid me according to what they valued my services worth. My quality of life was very poor, that is why I value my quality of life so much now, because I have been broke, I have been homeless, I have not had anyone believe in me. I am a hypomanic bipolar that self medicated with alcohol and pain meds until I found a way to deal with it. I still have bad days, quite often, but my previous experiences will keep me from falling back into my old ways. I graduated from Xavier last year with a degree in business management, it has and will continue to helped me to succeed in life. As far as if I had a child, her name is Hannah and she turned five in March, I was not able to support my child when she was born, now I can, and I will never allow that to happen again. If not for her I would probably still be homeless. I currently do not see her, her mom has custody and lives in another state. Because of my drinking, however, I go to court on the seventh of July to begin what is sure to be a battle over custody. It does not however keep me from supporting her, I will do whatever is required to do so. Even if it means working twenty hours a day sometimes. It is easily worth it. Ever seen the show Bizarre Foods? Andrew Zimmerman lived on the streets of New York City for a year as a homeless, thieving, drug addict, look at him now. But oh wait, you cannot get a job being homeless. Just because you have not seen anyone do it does not mean it cannot be done. I have never seen someone split an atom but It happens everyday. I can and I will open my own restaurant, even if I am fifty when it happens. If I fail so be it, but it will not stop me from trying again. As far as that $300 dollar visit, your insurance company got billed that much because that is what it costs to deal with them, due to government regulation. I used to have insurance, my psychiatrist billed them around $270 an hour, now that I pay him in cash it is %$90 an hour. Due to less paperwork and less regulation. He must have properly filled out forms, according to government specs to be paid by an insurance company. My dollar however is not nearly as regulated, I choose to see him for my own benefit, he does not have to justify his billing with anyone. I decide wehter or not it is worth it. Yes they ship jobs oversees, due to once again, less regulation, higher profits, and the livelihood of there corporation. If you and others did not like having affordable cars, housewares, tvs, computers, Ipods and the like they would not do so. However, to produce an equivalent product in the US versus China, it would be a much higher price. Consumer choices and government regulations are what cause jobs to be shipped overseas.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Fiat to buy remaining US stake in Chrysler" which said "Italian automaker Fiat SpA said Friday that it will buy the Treasury's remaining stake in Chrysler Group LLC, freeing the automaker of U.S. government ownership. The Turin, Italy-based company notified the U.S. Treasury that it will exercise an option to buy the government's 6 percent stake.
It says in the article they WILL buy out, not that they did, but WILL buy it out. Quote: I did quit, but that didn't increase my salary. And no, I never could have have started a small company that builds the multi-million dollar equipment I was making. You may have had to start by making parts for the machines, but you could have and still could do it. Quote: Can you provide evidence that college ratings are done by liberals, or are you making up your facts yet again? Quote: I agree. We have a death penalty in this country. Whether it's right or not is irrelevant; but it's there because the majority of Americans support it. Quote: Now you're not only making things up, you're sounding dumb. In my "dream world", I get paid a fair wage for my work, not the lowest "going rate" that business owners dole out so they can reap all the benefits of my hard work. A fair wage is what you decide to work for, nothing more or less. No one forced you to work for Siemens, they only paid you because you showed up. The whole point of working is to earn a profit for yourself, they do the same thing you do. Work to earn a profit. You reaped the benefits of there hard work that went into building the company and providing you with a chance to work for them. Quote: Nor should they. Quote: If you think Rush should be paid more than $400 million, then I assume you're a HUGE fan, and now I understand where you learned to make up your facts. I did not say he should be paid more and I am not a fan of his. I have no use for a hypocritical zealot whom panders to his audience a vile spew of misinformation and fear.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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However if he is being paid 400 million then he is onviously worth more than that, that is why they pay him that much. So that he earns a profit and they do as well. It is no different than paying a mechanic at a dealer $30 an hour when they charge you $60 for labor. The mechanic gets paid, the dealer gets paid, and you have a car to drive.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Shanghai Jiao Tong University
This is the university that did the ratings you quoted, a communist ran school. Pretty close to a lib in my opinion. I do not remember who made the post but it said something about communist and socialist countries being better somehow. One thing I find amusing is the complete lack of mentioning that for either of those systems to be in place you must first have a capitalist society, then you switch over to communism. Marx himself came up with the term capitalism and says it must be achieved in order to have a communist society.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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What the fuck happened to my ignore list? I guess I only have one more thing to say: I think you are a complete liar. You work for OSI? So you work in a chain restaurant as a server? A chain restaurant let you work for free for multiple weeks? I'm not sure, but I thought that was illegal? You lie about getting a job interview, when really you were the homeless guy asking for work and a guy lent a hand, probably not even thinking you'd show up? You somehow have three DUI's in six years, were homeless, went to college, made $5 an hour ? But in another post claimed you had made $37,000 on paper in a year before? Less regulation in jobs overseas? LIke paying ten year olds two dollars a day? Like having no sort of safety in the workplace? If me and others didn't like these things? You're typing on a computer, you drove in a car at least three times, and probably have bought many items made in china because you were so terribly strapped for cash, right? Ford seemed to be doing just fine in the 60's when the jobs were still in America, when did they file for bankruptcy again? Once the American people couldn't afford their products because they shipped all the jobs that used to enable people to buy these things overseas? Is livelihood your new word for profit? You have a degree in business management but don't see that as relevant to own your own business? For some reason serving in a restaurant makes sense?
I feel bad for you man, maybe if insurance and pharmaceutical companies were concerned about your health you would be able to purchase the medication you obviously so very much need, for a reasonable price; but then again, it is probably the government regulations on pharmaceutical companies to not bring every drug to the market without extensive testing so that we aren't playing russain roulette going to the pharmacy, right?
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Damn good posts ShroomyJohn.
![]() PileusSonofGalt, I appreciate all the effort you're putting into your posts, and for sharing about yourself, but if you think that working 20 hours a day for a meager wage while raising a child is the way to succeed in life, you're just ignorant. That's not how millionaires get to be where they are. Things were better in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. People could raise a family and buy a house and car with only one working parent. Taxes on the rich were high, but they still got by just fine. Now families with two income earners struggle, because more and more people like you think that we should be letting the rich pay less taxes, while eliminating benefits that we used to enjoy. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Oh no, not the ignore list! Whatever shall I do? I do not plan on being super wealthy, but I will have enough money to send my children to the school I choose. I will have the money to pay my bills and not rely on others for my quality of life. I find it amusing you think I allowed myself to be extorted, I did nothing of the sort. I did what was needed to sustain my life. I did it just long enough to get myself out of the mess I was in. If I had not I would have had nothing, everyday I had more than I started with, that was enough to get me going. That was all I needed, because at the end of the day I will make it. I would never do anything for less than what I think it is worth, to me, at the time, it was. That is why now I have a home, a garden, a laptop, a 42" Samsung plasma in my bedroom and three other flat screens in my house, this is why now I can eat loafs of bread that I buy from a local baker for $4 a loaf, oh but I hoard all my money, thats right I have none of this. And local shops are out of business because I do not buy from them.
Those super wealthy you speak of are who pays most peoples wages. Do you buy a new Cadillac every year? Nope, but they do, and they pay for some guy in Detroit to build it, every year. The also come into my restaurant and pay me for providing them a service they find desirable. They purchase obscene amounts of home goods, food, and wine. All from people who at some point started a small business and either got bigger due to increased demand or failed due to whatever reasons. Giant corporations are not even close to the top of the list as to why they failed though. Walmart started as a mom and pop shop, now they employ hundreds of thousands, if not for walmart many of those unskilled workers would not have jobs. And as far as the bailouts saving GM and Chrysler, they did, I will not disagree. However, they should have FAILED, they should have went into bankruptcy just like you or I would have had to do in that situation. At what point does a company become so valuable that at any cost it should remain open? NEVER! If you fail you fail, someone else will step in and fill the void created by their failure. Not everyone can succeed, sometimes people and companies fail, it is how the world works.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: The ratings I quoted are US News and World Report. I don't know how you associated them with Shanghai Jiao Tong University. And it wasn't me that said communism is better. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: I did not say OSI let me work for free, I met my current GM at a privatley owned restaurant that went belly up. I got my first DUI when I was 19, second when I was 20, third when I was 22. I happen to meet a woman who had set up a scholarship fund for people that needed help, we quickly became friends and she paid for the majority of my schooling. I owe her more than you can imagine and work for her whenever possible to pay her back for what she did for me. When I filed my taxes this year I had made $36,800 and change, that is why I wait tables instead of doing something else right now. I do not know of any other job that I can earn that kind of money and still have been able to go to school. As far as the medication goes yes, it is because of the feds that it costs so much. Look up the history on fluvoxamine, maybe you remember Columbine? Because of one of those kids being on it the FDA yanked it form the market and said it was unsafe. AFter getting it reapproved the price has more than doubled. But I am lying about that as well, Columbine did not really happen. And you are almost right about the russian roullete, ever hear of Topomax? Chantix? Phen-Phen? Avadia? Vioxx? All approved for use by the FDA, later found to KILL people, but hey they had been approved. Maybe you should look into both the FDA system for approval and hypomainc bipolar. You might learn something. Like that if you have a drug and do 1000 stuidies on it and 999 of them say that 99% of the peole who take it die, and the 1 study says that everyone who takes it is healthier that they can use just that study to get approval. Also that people with hypomania are often much more productive than normal folks without any mental health problems. Edited by PileusSonofGalt (06/12/11 04:58 AM)
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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US news gets those ratings from that university in China, the link at the bottom of the page you linked to on Wikipedia clearly stated that they are responsible for those ratings. I was not sure who it was, it was not directed at you per se, just to anyone whom thinks it is a good idea. Some of your ideals appear to fall in line with socialist beliefs, thats all.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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@ShroomeyJohn: Dont get so worked up over my posts bro. Never said I got to "take a break" becuase my parents worked hard and earned money, just that I felt no shame for utilizing the fruits of their labor for helpling facilitate my future successes.
You sound rediculous when you make personal attacks on me. I address policies - you address persons. :tisk: :tisk:
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Requoting what I said (and what you got pissed at) just so theres no confusion. The wealth redistribution i was referring to obviously wasn't mine - it was my parents. I think we were talking about the death tax in here, no? Maybe taht was the other thread
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: Quote: so as we can see, the bulk of the hiring is outside of the country, and this means obama created how many jobs? how many american jobs were created? it's no wonder the unemployment rate is at 9.1% Obamas job creation id outside of the US borders
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: so the tax payer should be forced to foot the bill for products they have no faith in, if the american people wanted GM and Chrysler the they'd buy the products and in all honesty, this statement is wrong, the north american and german market for GM were losing, all other foreign divisions were reporting record sales, GM's North American headquarters just prior to receiving a bail out money moved $5billion to south america
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: The Bureau of Labor Statistics only tracks American jobs. The 113,200 jobs created were American workers, regardless of parent company. Quote: If you followed the discussion, you'd realize that the American taxpayer got their money back. That beats paying unemployment for $1.4 million people in my mind.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Wrong again. The link at the bottom was for a different set of rankings not affiliated with US News, which I didn't refer to. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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The indicators we use to capture academic quality fall into a number of categories: assessment by administrators at peer institutions, retention of students, faculty resources, student selectivity, financial resources, alumni giving, and (for National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges) high school counselor ratings of colleges and "graduation rate performance." The indicators include input measures that reflect a school's student body, its faculty, and its financial resources, along with outcome measures that signal how well the institution does its job of educating students:
Alumni giving rate (5 percent). Another great way to rate a school. Financial resources (10 percent). Because we all know if you have more money it makes you smarter ![]() Your source also includes the opinions of high school counselers at a higher percentage of the scores than they do for graduation rate. Really accurate way to rank a school. It is funny you would not consider Xavier a top rate school, yet your own source lists it higher than the vast majority of schools in the nation. Does it need to be in the top 10 to be considered top rate? Because your source puts it in the top 10% of schools rated. So that would easily put it in the top 5% of all colleges in the U.S.
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: and probably spends all the money on beer or crack anyway. I always do give a bum a dollar or two, if I have it. I know what they are buying, I guess if it was me on the streets, that crack would help me through the night? ![]() at least that is what goes through my head while I'm giving them a dollar -------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: ![]() too many billions in labor? LOL I'm suuuure that's where all that money went. shovel ready projects. all those minimum wagers doing the hard work, being lazy, bankrupting the country. ![]()
-------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: If your parents are rich enough to be affected by the estate tax, that means you would have more than $10,000,000 coming to you when they die. Do you have that much coming to you? Quote: So you have 3 dui's in the last 8 years, not the last 6 years. I need some help, can you send this woman my way so I can get a scholarship too? I've applied for 30+ scholarships and didn't receive a single one. 38 grand waiting tables is a lot of fucking money, if you were working 40 hours a week that averages to 17 bucks an hour. Doable, but, taking full time courses at Xavier in business management, you were still able to work 40 hours a week? Props to that, maybe you could talk to corporate and hook me up with a job where I can make 17 an hour? Shit, I wouldn't even mind working in a kitchen making half of that an hour. Your statement about how drugs are approved are not at ALL close to accurate. Not my exact field, but this is the area of study that I am currently in, and I guarentee if there is a 99.9% rate of people saying that the drug is going to kill you, that product would never make it to market, and that product would NEVER have been tested on humans in the first place. You list all these drugs that got recalled after FDA approval... Think of what would be out there if there weren't any sort of approval process. You can't honestly think that the market would somehow be safer without oversight on pharmaceuticals. Cancer drugs that cost $500+ per dose? That isn't regulations, that is once again extorting the most desperate of people for every last dime that they have.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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They all occured within six years, not the last six years. when I filled out my FAFSA and applied for grants, scholorships and loans I was turned down everywhere, she was my saving grace. If she had not been taxed at over 40% on her inheritance more people would be going to school on her dime. Yes I do belive that without federal regulation that we would have a safer marketplace for drugs. Just as we have consumer reports now and angieslist, we would have the same for meds. Would you buy some random pills off of someone you had never heard of and take them for acne? No, you would find a reputable source, it is human nature to want the best you can get. Also if not for "rich" people, cancer medication would be in the tens of thousands, not $500+, just like with computers, cell phones, cars, and televisions, they get cheaper over time. Because "rich" people buy them, so they manufacture more, and refine the production. When flat screen plasmas came out they cost well over $10000, when cell phones hit the market they ran around $4000, did anyone you know that is not "rich" buy them? NO because they could not afford it, now they can, because rich people got the companies going. Think about how much you would not have now without those wealthy pricks. If anything you should thank them.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Created by what? Not by the porkulus nor by TARP embezzlement. A 5% increase in hiring from historic lows across the whole industry is not what you think it is. In fact it is often referred to as a "dead cat bounce".
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Looks like you dont know much about the estate tax. Quote: So by the time my parents die, anything over $1,000,000 in value. Note: $1,000,000 isn't a lot of money when you consider a person's total net worth. Lots and lots and lots of americans are well above that cutoff
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Looks like I don't know about the estate tax? Read what you just quoted, and under current law, tell me how I am wrong. Per person, $5,000,000 can be left. Two parents, $10,000,000.
I hope your parents last for more than two years, but you never know, right? That would also only be if the Republicans would ever let the estate tax increase. Of course, a filibuster thread and the pussy Dems will allow them to have their way. What is 5%? A VERY small portion of whatever is there.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Wow you're dumb. You realize typically one parent dies first, right? So mom dies, dad assumes full value of the family wealth. Dad dies, any assets over $1,000,000 get taxed at 55%.
you think you're so smart, 'eh? Sucks when you actually start THINKING about things.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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But only someone with no knowledge of estate planning would leave all the wealth to your father.
We're still not getting to the real problem, you keep thinking you're any sort of wealthy, and keep buying into the hype that you keep getting spoon fed by whoever is feeding you, and continue your ignorant ways until your grandkids are broke as shit and our country is ruled by the aristocrats.
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: don't some people leave the country to avoid this tax? i guess that's criminal or some shit, and you can never return to the country you flee from. I don't know I'll stop here while I'm ahead but god damn that is some serious tax. obama hasn't done shit to stop that huh? -------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: why do you think i think i'm wealthY? why do you care so much whether or not i think i'm wealthy? Why are you so far up my ass?
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: to STOP that? Lol, liberals by and large wish the estate tax was as big as possible. republicans by and large want to eliminate the estate tax. it is extremely hard on family businesses & farms. small businesses make up more than 50% of jobs in this nation, by the way.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: I'm not the one saying you're wealthy. In fact, I've said quite the contrary But you're getting defensive, which means I'm touching something sensitive.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: you are touching his feelings ![]() ![]()
-------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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I loved and lost but I loved-ftw Registered: 06/06/07 Posts: 31,564 Loc: You get banned for saying that Last seen: 21 minutes, 10 seconds |
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Quote: Bogus Unreal yet Literate Lies Shoveled in Heaps to Initiate Truthslander
-------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: and just what companies hired these 100,000 people especially when sales are down and announcements of plant closures, some how these numbers just dont add up http://biggovernment.com/capitol http://www.versustwin.com/automo Quote:Quote: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Pol let's ask ourselves, how employers continue to add so many jobs yet unemployment rises
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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We could ask the GOP the same question? Where are the jobs they promised? The first thing they did was talk about jobs to win the 2010 election? Try to repeal health care, try to ban abortion, try to ban gay marriage... etc etc. What have they done for jobs?
Besides threaten to filibuster legislation to prevent outsourcing of course... Are you really asking how unemployment can rise, because some people are being hired doesn't mean more aren't losing their jobs...
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Even Dumber ThanAdvertized! Registered: 01/22/03 Posts: 193,665 Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutS |
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Quote: contrary to the claims of obama, outside of government, politicians cant create jobs, they can only provide a favorable climate. how has the obama administration or the democrat controlled congress provided that favorable climate in the first 2 years? I guess to you the republicans should have shat jobs for the last 6 months Quote: so you believe that we should be outsourcing the jobs Quote: how very astute, so while the auto industry has put 113,000 people to work it's hemorrhaged 130,000 jobs... sure sounds like that obama math has payed off with job creation
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: So how is he being spoon fed hype? I realize the more I read your posts you will not hold firm to a belief and when questioned you resolve to name calling and arguing semantics. Way to bring intelligent discussion to the table.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: I know you're better than that. Quote: Just trying to get on your level.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: I gotta see this one. ShroomyJohn, just how would you go about writing a piece of legislation that would prevent outsourcing jobs? You don't have to get specific but what do you suppose the rough outline would be?
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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It would probably go something like this
Calendar No. 578 111th CONGRESS 2d Session S. 3816 To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to create American jobs and to prevent the offshoring of such jobs overseas. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES SEPTEMBER 21, 2010 Mr. DURBIN (for himself, Mr. REID, Mr. SCHUMER, Mr. DORGAN, Mrs. BOXER, Mr. BROWN of Ohio, and Mr. LEAHY) introduced the following bill; which was read the first time SEPTEMBER 22, 2010 Read the second time and placed on the calendar A BILL To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to create American jobs and to prevent the offshoring of such jobs overseas. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the ‘Creating American Jobs and Ending Offshoring Act’. TITLE I--INCENTIVES TO CREATE AMERICAN JOBS SEC. 101. PAYROLL TAX HOLIDAY FOR EMPLOYERS MOVING JOBS TO THE UNITED STATES FROM OVERSEAS. (a) In General- Section 3111 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: ‘(e) Special Exemption for Certain Individuals Hired to Replace Employees Whose Jobs Were Overseas- ‘(1) IN GENERAL- Subsection (a) shall not apply to wages paid by a qualified employer with respect to employment during the applicable 24-month period with respect to any qualified replacement individual for services performed-- ‘(A) in a trade or business of such qualified employer, or ‘(B) in the case of a qualified employer exempt from tax under section 501(a), in furtherance of the activities related to the purpose or function constituting the basis of the employer’s exemption under section 501. ‘(2) QUALIFIED EMPLOYER- For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘qualified employer’ has the meaning given such term by subsection (d)(2). ‘(3) QUALIFIED REPLACEMENT INDIVIDUAL- For purposes of this subsection-- ‘(A) IN GENERAL- The term ‘qualified replacement individual’ means any individual-- ‘(i) who begins employment with a qualified employer after September 21, 2010, and before September 22, 2013, ‘(ii) with respect to whom the qualified employer certifies that such individual has been employed by the qualified employer to replace another employee-- ‘(I) who was not a citizen or lawfully present resident of the United States, and ‘(II) substantially all of whose services for the employer were performed outside of the United States, ‘(iii) with respect to whom the qualified employer certifies that substantially all of the services the individual will perform for the employer will be performed within the United States, and ‘(iv) who is not an individual described in section 51(i)(1) (applied by substituting qualified employer for taxpayer each place it appears). For purposes of this paragraph, only 1 individual may be treated as a qualified replacement individual with respect to any employee described in clause (ii) being replaced by the qualified employer. Any certification under clause (ii) or (iii) shall be made by signed affidavit, under penalties of perjury. ‘(B) EMPLOYER- All employers treated as a single employer under subsection (a) or (b) of section 52 shall be treated as a single employer for purposes of subparagraph (A)(ii), except that section 1563(b)(2)(C) shall be disregarded in applying section 1563 for purposes of such section. ‘(4) APPLICABLE 24-MONTH PERIOD- For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘applicable 24-month period’ means, with respect to any qualified replacement individual of a qualified employer, the 24-month period beginning on the hiring date of such individual by the employer. ‘(5) ELECTION- A qualified employer may elect to have this subsection not apply. Such election shall be made in such manner as the Secretary may require. ‘(6) SPECIAL RULE FOR THIRD CALENDAR QUARTER OF 2010- ‘(A) NONAPPLICATION OF EXEMPTION DURING THIRD QUARTER- Paragraph (1) shall not apply with respect to wages paid during the third calendar quarter of 2010. ‘(B) CREDITING OF FIRST QUARTER EXEMPTION DURING FOURTH QUARTER- The amount by which the tax imposed under subsection (a) would (but for subparagraph (A)) have been reduced with respect to wages paid by a qualified employer during the third calendar quarter of 2010 shall be treated as a payment against the tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to the qualified employer for the fourth calendar quarter of 2010 which is made on the date that such tax is due. 1 ‘(7) REGULATIONS- The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this subsection, including regulations necessary to prevent the avoidance of such purposes through the transfer and retransfer of employees within and without the United States or otherwise.’. (b) Coordination With Work Opportunity Credit- Section 51(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph: ‘(6) COORDINATION WITH PAYROLL TAX FORGIVENESS OF QUALIFIED REPLACEMENT INDIVIDUALS- The term ‘wages’ shall not include any amount paid or incurred to a qualified replacement individual (as defined in section 3111(e)(3)) during the 2-year period beginning on the hiring date of such individual by an employer unless such employer makes an election not to have section 3111(e) apply.’. (c) Transfers to Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund- There are hereby appropriated to the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund established under section 201 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 401) amounts equal to the reduction in revenues to the Treasury by reason of the amendments made by subsection (a). Amounts appropriated by the preceding sentence shall be transferred from the general fund at such times and in such manner as to replicate to the extent possible the transfers which would have occurred to such Trust Fund had such amendments not been enacted. (d) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to wages paid after September 21, 2010. TITLE II--DISINCENTIVES TO MOVING AMERICAN JOBS OVERSEAS SEC. 201. DISALLOWANCE OF DEDUCTION, LOSS, OR CREDIT FOR CERTAIN ITEMS INCURRED IN MOVING AMERICAN JOBS OFFSHORE. (a) In General- Part IX of subchapter B of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new section: ‘SEC. 280I. EXPENDITURES INCURRED IN MOVING AMERICAN JOBS OFFSHORE. ‘(a) Disallowance- No deduction, loss, or credit shall be allowed under this title for any taxable year for any disallowed amount. ‘(b) Disallowed Amount- For purposes of this section-- ‘(1) IN GENERAL- The term ‘disallowed amount’ means any amount which is paid or incurred during the taxable year which is properly allocable to an American jobs offshoring transaction. ‘(2) LOSSES- Such term shall include any loss from any sale, exchange, abandonment, or other disposition of property in connection with an American jobs offshoring transaction. ‘(3) EXCEPTION FOR COSTS RELATED TO DISPLACED WORKERS- Such term shall not include any amount paid or incurred for assistance to employees within the United States whose jobs are being lost as part of an American jobs offshoring transaction, including any severance pay, outplacement services, or employee retraining. ‘(c) American Jobs Offshoring Transaction- For purposes of this section-- 2 ‘(1) IN GENERAL- The term ‘American jobs offshoring transaction’ means any transaction (or series of transactions) in which the taxpayer reduces or eliminates the operation of a trade or business (or line of business) within the United States in connection with the start up or expansion of such trade or business (or such line of business) by the taxpayer outside of the United States. ‘(2) EXCEPTION- A transaction (or series of transactions) shall not be treated as an American jobs offshoring transaction if the taxpayer establishes to the satisfaction of the Secretary that such transaction (or series of transactions) will not result in the loss of employment for employees of the taxpayer within the United States. ‘(d) Aggregation Rule- All employers treated as a single employer under subsection (a) or (b) of section 52 shall be treated as a single taxpayer for purposes of this section, except that section 1563(b)(2)(C) shall be disregarded in applying section 1563 for purposes of section 52. ‘(e) Regulations- The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations necessary to prevent the avoidance of such purposes and the application of this section in the case of mergers, acquisitions, and dispositions and in the case of contract employees.’. (b) Conforming Amendment- The table of sections for part IX of subchapter B of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new item: ‘Sec. 280I. Expenditures incurred in moving American jobs offshore.’. (c) Effective Dates- (1) IN GENERAL- The amendments made by this section shall apply to transactions occurring after the date of the enactment of this Act. (2) EXCEPTION FOR EXISTING TRANSACTIONS- The amendments made by this section shall not apply to transactions occurring after the date of the enactment of this Act if the taxpayer establishes to the satisfaction of the Secretary of the Treasury or the Secretary’s delegate that on or before such date the taxpayer publicly identified the transaction in sufficient detail that the nature and scope of the transaction could be identified. SEC. 202. TAXATION OF INCOME OF CONTROLLED FOREIGN CORPORATIONS ATTRIBUTABLE TO IMPORTED PROPERTY PRODUCED BY EMPLOYEES IN AMERICAN JOBS MOVED OFFSHORE. (a) General Rule- Subsection (a) of section 954 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (defining foreign base company income) is amended by striking the period at the end of paragraph (5) and inserting ‘, and’, by redesignating paragraph (5) as paragraph (4), and by adding at the end the following new paragraph: ‘(5) imported property offshored income for the taxable year (determined under subsection (j) and reduced as provided in subsection (b)(5)).’. (b) Definition of Imported Property Offshored Income- Section 954 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: ‘(j) Imported Property Offshored Income- ‘(1) IN GENERAL- For purposes of subsection (a)(5), the term ‘imported property offshored income’ means offshored income (whether in the form of profits, commissions, fees, or otherwise) received from a controlled foreign corporation and derived in connection with-- ‘(A) manufacturing, producing, growing, or extracting imported property; ‘(B) the sale, exchange, or other disposition of imported property; or ‘(C) the lease, rental, or licensing of imported property. Such term shall not include any foreign oil and gas extraction income (within the meaning of section 907(c)) or any foreign oil related income (within the meaning of section 907(c)). ‘(2) IMPORTED PROPERTY- For purposes of this subsection-- ‘(A) IN GENERAL- Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the term ‘imported property’ means property which is imported into the United States by the offshored controlled foreign corporation or a related person. ‘(B) IMPORTED PROPERTY INCLUDES CERTAIN PROPERTY IMPORTED BY UNRELATED PERSONS- The term ‘imported property’ includes any property imported into the United States by an unrelated person if, when such property was sold to the unrelated person by the controlled foreign corporation (or a related person), it was reasonable to expect that-- ‘(i) such property would be imported into the United States; or ‘(ii) such property would be used as a component in other property which would be imported into the United States. ‘(C) EXCEPTION FOR PROPERTY SUBSEQUENTLY EXPORTED- The term ‘imported property’ does not include any property which is imported into the United States and which-- ‘(i) before substantial use in the United States, is sold, leased, or rented by the controlled foreign corporation or a related person for direct use, consumption, or disposition outside the United States; or ‘(ii) is used by the offshored controlled foreign corporation or a related person as a component in other property which is so sold, leased, or rented. ‘(D) EXCEPTION FOR CERTAIN AGRICULTURAL COMMODITIES- The term ‘imported property’ does not include any agricultural commodity which is not grown in the United States in commercially marketable quantities. ‘(3) OFFSHORED INCOME- For purposes of this section, the term ‘offshored income’ means income described in paragraph (1) that is directly or indirectly derived from the operation of a trade or business (or line of business) which was started or expanded outside the United States as part of an American jobs offshoring transaction (as defined in section 280I(c)) to which the provisions of section 280I apply. ‘(4) DEFINITIONS AND SPECIAL RULES- ‘(A) IMPORT- For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘import’ means entering, or withdrawal from warehouse, for consumption or use. Such term includes any grant of the right to use intangible property (as defined in section 936(h)(3)(B)) in the United States. ‘(B) UNITED STATES- For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘United States’ includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands of the United States, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. ‘(C) UNRELATED PERSON- For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘unrelated person’ means any person who is not a related person with respect to the controlled foreign corporation. ‘(D) COORDINATION WITH FOREIGN BASE COMPANY SALES INCOME- For purposes of this section, the term ‘foreign base company sales income’ shall not include any imported property income.’. (c) Separate Application of Limitations on Foreign Tax Credit for Imported Property Offshored Income- (1) IN GENERAL- Paragraph (1) of section 904(d) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to separate application of section with respect to certain categories of income) is amended by striking ‘and’ at the end of subparagraph (A), by redesignating subparagraph (B) as subparagraph (C), and by inserting after subparagraph (A) the following new subparagraph: ‘(B) imported property offshored income, and’. (2) IMPORTED PROPERTY OFFSHORED INCOME DEFINED- Paragraph (2) of section 904(d) of such Code is amended by redesignating subparagraphs (I), (J), and (K) as subparagraphs (J), (K), and (L), respectively, and by inserting after subparagraph (H) the following new subparagraph: ‘(I) IMPORTED PROPERTY OFFSHORED INCOME- The term ‘imported property offshored income’ means any income received or accrued by any person which is of a kind which would be imported property offshored income (as defined in section 954(j)).’. (3) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Clause (ii) of section 904(d)(2)(A) of such Code is amended by inserting ‘or imported property offshored income’ after ‘passive category income’. (d) Technical Amendments- (1) Clause (iii) of section 952(c)(1)(B) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to certain prior year deficits may be taken into account) is amended-- (A) by redesignating subclauses (II), (III), (IV), and (V) as subclauses (III), (IV), (V), and (VI), and (B) by inserting after subclause (I) the following new subclause: ‘(II) imported property offshored income,’. (2) The last sentence of paragraph (4) of section 954(b) of such Code (relating to exception for certain income subject to high foreign taxes) is amended by striking ‘subsection (a)(5)’ and inserting ‘subsection (a)(4)’. (3) Paragraph (5) of section 954(b) of such Code (relating to deductions to be taken into account) is amended by striking ‘and the foreign base company oil related income’ and inserting ‘the foreign base company oil related income, and the imported property offshored income’. (e) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years of foreign corporations beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act, and to taxable years of United States shareholders within which or with which such taxable years of such foreign corporations end. Calendar No. 578 111th CONGRESS 2d Session Comments Permalink S. 3816 A BILL To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to create American jobs and to prevent the offshoring of such jobs overseas. SEPTEMBER 22, 2010
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: You can't read a mortgage agreement but you post this disjointed bit of bullshit that doesn't do what you say it does (prevent the outsourcing of jobs). It just disallows some tax deductions and adds some others. It doesn't prevent dick.Did you even read it? Show of hands among the audience:
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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You realize that this bill offered tax breaks for companies, the same tax breaks they were lobbying for before, just to bring some outsourced jobs back to America? You might call it "just disallowing some tax deductions and add some others" but that only means YOU didn't read it, whereas I have.
Of course I don't understand every little thing that is being said, but I understand most of it to know that it was a good idea, but it got shot down without even thought of changing it at all. It's all or nothing for republicans. Edited by ShroomyJohn (06/13/11 03:17 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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And I've never had to read a mortgage agreements. A few rental agreements and you'd be damn sure I went through line by line and marked everything I needed to ask.
I don't see how what you think I would be unable to do has any effect on my beliefs about the topic.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: No, I actually did read it. It was absurd and came nowhere near preventing outsourcing. Quote: Of course you don't understand it and it was an idiot idea. Protectionism always is.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: Awesome, he thinks that a bank should have to produce a document that anyone would be able to understand because they are so confusing as of now that you require outside help to understand, yet he quotes a Congressional bill that would takes a person with above average intelligence several hours if not a day or two to fully comprehend every word and implication. Way to go Shroomy, I like how you say you are trying to get on my level. Read every post I have made and I you will see I have responded to almost every question pointed my way, by anyone, yet you have answered less than 50% of the questions just I have asked you. Typical moocher style. I am going to start calling you James Taggert.
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Stranger Registered: 09/13/10 Posts: 1,085 Last seen: 11 years, 7 months |
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Quote: - And you do understand it? ![]() Of course it doesn't PREVENT anything but it was a solid idea that instead of being worked with, got completely shut down without any discussion, just as you seem to be doing. Quote: I don't need to understand every single line, there are plenty of detailed breakdowns of the bill that I have to reference to.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: You dont need to understand every line huh? You expect a bank to give you a loan and make sure that you understand every line, yet you do not hold your government to the same standard. I wonder why? Congress published this and your average everday citizen would have little to no clue what the full implications are, but a mortgage, that has far less the number of implications, is too hard for people to read and understand? Maybe they should educate themselves.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: The Government wouldn't be asking ordinary Americans not to outsource jobs - they would be asking businesses. That's the difference. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: Who starts, builds, and runs the businesses? ORDINARY AMERICANS Like when you said you did not have the capital to start a business like Siemens, I think Bill Gates did not have much capital to start Microsoft but he did it, so did Steve Jobs, so did Mark Cuban, he started out as a bartender.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: You don't get it. If I'm a bartender, I'm not reading about export law. If I'm a fireman, I'm not reading about export law. If I'm a real estate agent, I'm not reading export law. Subject matter experts in export law read export law. However, all of the above buy homes. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stranger Registered: 06/09/11 Posts: 16 Last seen: 12 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Maybe the word "life" was kind of vague. It is about learning all the things that can help you understand the world around you more. Give you the tools to observe the world in a thoughtful and unbiased way, not train you to find a job and just become another ant in the colony. I was raised with politics all around me...it was extremely easy to see the liberal bias in public education. Take that as you want, but it is undeniable. I watched one of my undergrad history teachers brainwash a class of freshman. It was kind of disturbing.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: You are implying that businesses are not made up of ordinary americans, that is all they are made up of though. Regular joes like you and I. Some people are better than others at some things, but we are all just regular people.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Exactly. Those that are experts in export law do export law. But everyone buys homes. -------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: Except for the ~33% of the US population that doesn't.
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Stranger Registered: 03/16/05 Posts: 32,557 Loc: California, US Last seen: 8 months, 8 days |
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Quote: Ok smarty pants.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: Not even close to everyone buys a home in any country.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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A lot of people have insurance as well, do they take the time to read every detail, not usually. Does this make the insurance companies bad? Why do you blame the banks again? If not for the mountains of regulation the contracts would be much simpler to read and understand without the use of a dictionary or lawyer. they must use certain terms and include certain clauses due to federal regulations. Ever wonder why at the end of every political message they say who it was endorsed by? Due to federal regulation. Ever wonder why tax law is so convoluted? You guessed it government regulation. I could do this all night, yet you will never belive that what they are doing causes more harm than good. How many small business went under due to Sarbanes Oxley? I am not sure the exact figure but even one is entirely too many. Way to help the average person, you should thank them the next time you need a credit card or a doctor and cannot get a good one.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Who do you think owns businesses? Martians? Reptilians? Businesses don't do anything. The people who run them do. ShroomyJohn I understood that bill well enough to know that there were NO prohibitions in it preventing outsourcing. There were some minor tax penalties. So I ask you again: How do you propose we prevent outsourcing jobs?
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Bans for Pleasure Registered: 03/26/03 Posts: 42,214 Loc: Seattle Last seen: 1 year, 2 months |
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Quote: A good start would be to require free and open trade. That means, not in the way some politicians use the term, but actual free trade. Many countries slap a 40% to 100% import duty on most products made in USA, yet the US doesn't do the same in return. If a country charges tariffs on our products, and we do not reciprocate, it stifles the two-way street that trade should be. The original arguments made in the 1980s were that by helping other countries establish industry and trade, their populations would make more money, thus would buy American products, raising the standard of living in both countries. However, when our products cost twice as much due to tariffs, it puts us at a disadvantage in the marketplace. Also, when a country such as China suppresses worker rights to keep wages low, it encourages outsourcing, but the low-wage earners in that country can't afford to buy American products in return. When the US loses jobs and the resulting tax revenue from outsourcing, yet doesn't make up for it with increased exports, it contributes to the massive unemployment and budget deficits we're experiencing today. Outsourcing per se is not as much the problem as the huge trade imbalance. For those in a tizzy over the auto bailout, don't forget that for every union job on an assembly plant, there are 9 additional, mostly non-union support jobs in the local economy. RR -------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Blessed Registered: 01/11/05 Posts: 27,785 Loc: In a Tree |
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Quote: RR I don't think you post a whooooole lot in these giant-argument threads, so conseuently I don't know if our views align most of the time... ...but this quote is spot on.
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horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 11 months |
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Quote: Aside from the fact that I wasn't asking you I believe you are mistaken about the one way nature of trade tariffs. We most certainly do slap tariffs on other nations' goods. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/ Quote: Our products are not generally unfairly taxed. Our labor costs are grotesque. Quote: The Chinese fuck their people over. Duh. Your answer to this is..............what exactly? Quote: OK. I agree. I don't think outsourcing is a problem at all. It keeps prices lower for the American consumer. Yipee. Our money buys more. Quote: How would a union job provide that more than any other job? If there were more union jobs we would be even less competitive and the trade imbalance would be even worse. Not to mention the increase in outsourcing as a result of the increase in labor costs.I haven't managed to find an answer to my question anywhere in there. Unless you are trying to say that higher wages for American workers will prevent outsourcing. Which is fucking whacko.
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PhungiPharmer Registered: 05/19/11 Posts: 240 Last seen: 12 years, 2 months |
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Quote: He did answer your question zappa, laizzez faire trade would definetly help slow the outsourcing of jobs to a trickle. If we had the chance to sell our goods and services in a true free market many more jobs would be kept in country by means of more capital being available. We would only outsource jobs to other countries if we, the people producing already, chose to because of a better quality product or the same quality with cheaper labor. There will always be individuals who can or will do it cheaper, it is human nature to want more for yourself and if doing more for less gets it done then they will. It is a good thing that we outsource certain jobs, if we did not have cheap outside labor many items we consider basic staples would be exponentialy more expensive, and out of reach for many.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! 

. I know very few of the "liberal bitch"es like your father that believe they are entitled to anybody else's money. Three DUI's is gonna put you in a hard ass spot when it comes to making real money, because an employer is going to see that and see you for what you are. You gonna start your own business? Have fun getting the startup capital.







How would a union job provide that more than any other job? If there were more union jobs we would be even less competitive and the trade imbalance would be even worse. Not to mention the increase in outsourcing as a result of the increase in labor costs.