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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14598634 - 06/11/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thinking like this is very dangerous, no one with 1 or 20 million just has money rolling in without work or risk, usually both, maybe you should fact check before making such absurd claims.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14598697 - 06/11/11 11:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Yeah I think that I am going to end my conversation with you here, you obviously are wearing some awesome rose colored shades. If you look into the finances you will see the loans are coming only from companies that have taken TARP funds, so I am pretty sure they are still borrowing taxpayer dollars.



Before you end your conversation, please show evidence that the Italian automaker Fiat recieved TARP money as you claim.  If you don't answer, then I can understand why you've ended your conversation (you can't find evidence).

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
If you think you are doing them a favor then quit, start your own company and earn your own millions.



I'd love to.  It would cost tens of millions to start a company in the industry I'm in.  I wasn't paid enough in my previous job to be able to afford it.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
I highly doubt you have earned them even one million, if you had then you would know how hard it is to produce that much wealth.



Actually, I was being conservative.  I earned several hundred million dollars for my previous company (Siemens).  Yes, I know how hard it was, and then they fucked me with a mere 25% raise.  My vice president, on the other hand, and those above him made a huge amount of money off my work, although they weren't even involved in my project.  (If you're interested in how I earned the company that much, I'm happy to share.)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
I have no need for a "top" college, I am not sure how much a degree from Yale could help me compared to my degree from culinary school and Xavier.



I'm saying the top colleges attract smarter people, and the top colleges are very liberal.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Oh wait, thats right, Xavier is a top college for business in this country.



Look, I'm not saying #115 in the country is bad, but it's not what I meant by top college.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
I just do not agree with having to pay for someone elses child to learn while I could be saving that money for my children's private school fund.  It is not the role of government to provide educational resources.



I can't name a single civilized society where that's NOT a role of Government.  Can you?  Only the countries I provided.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
People can get fair wages without robbing a company of its right to conduct business, they may have to work for it though, you probably do not like that idea though.



Actually, I do like the idea of working hard for a fair wage.  Employers will NEVER give a fair wage if they don't have to.  My current company earns an average of $650,000/year per employee.  Most people don't even make one quarter of that.  The reason?  Not because the employees aren't worth it.  We're actually told our salaries are based on the "going rate" for our positions, not on the profits we make.  They know we can't quit and make more elsewhere because everyone else pays the "going rate".

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Agh, my favorite, work is not voluntary!!! ROFLMAO!!! It is COMPLETELY voluntary, no one puts a gun to your head and says work or die, not in this country.



That's because in this country, we have liberal laws that ensure your basic survival.  That wouldn't be the case in your dream country.  Work would be mandatory.




  never said Fiat did, they make up less than 50% of the investors as of now in Chrysler though. Maybe you did not read that.
If you where not paid enough then you shoukld have quit. If you really wanted to start your own comapny then you could have, it would have been small but you could have if you where that good.

So what is a top college and who did the rating? Oh yeah a lib who thinks that they have a right to my money.

Once agian just because the majority thinks it is ok does not make it right, if I got 151 million people to agree you should die does that make it right? Fuck no.

Yes it would be mandatory if you wanted to have a home, tvs, a car, and good food. That is a given you have to do something for something, in your dream world a few work for the benefit of the rest and most people would do nothing for something.


And as far as being paid less than what your worth you are sort of correct. No comapny in there right mind would pay you more than you are worth, even Rush Limbaugh with his $400 million dollar contract is not paid what he is "worth", if they did oay him exactkley what he was worth they would not make any money and they would go broke
.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14598703 - 06/11/11 11:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

just 25% huh, maybe you should have invested it. I can gaurenfuckingT you that it did not cost tens of millions of dollars to start Siemens, it would not cost that today either. You jst want to make excuses.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14598717 - 06/11/11 11:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I guess the president would never lie to the american people

from your link
Quote:

The second point on which the Post falls short is in suggesting that the 113,000 American jobs added by the auto industry since Chrysler and GM are irrelevant because the figure includes jobs at suppliers, dealers, parts manufacturers, and other related entities.





seems there's 16000 fewer jobs in the auto industry than there were in 2009, not 130,000 more jobs



Sorry my friend.  it seems you don't seem to have the best reading comprehension.  From your own post:

"The two automakers employ 16,500 fewer people than they did in 2009."

Two automakers don't make the "auto industry".  Care to try again in finding anything in that rebuttal that was false?





so can you show me where ford put on 100,000 people in their US plants? or
maybe where hundreds of dealerships opened back up to sell the chevy volt

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14598874 - 06/12/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Actually I am a three time loser, I have had three DUIS in the past six years and I have never made more that $37000 on paper, I wait tables in a restaurant and do not even talk to my father because he is a liberal bitch who thinks he has a right to other peoples money. My mon is in college now and I help her pay the bill. I could not help but laugh when I read your response on me having no intentions of working hard. I grow shitake to sell at the local farmers market, I wait tables, I am studying now to be a top notch chef, I cut grass in my spare time to earn money and I do not have a license. I do anything I can to make money because I love it. I have never taken a penny I was not owed and I am pretty sure that my step mom is the only person in my family to earn more than $60000 a year. I plan on changing that, I will do whatever is necessary to make sure my family has everything they want, on my dime, no one elses.





You're "studying" to be a "top notch chef"... Good luck with that, and when you're working in a kitchen at T.G.I. Friday's for 9.50 an hour let me know about your outlook when you're looking to start a family :huxleyfacepalm:.  I know very few of the "liberal bitch"es like your father that believe they are entitled to anybody else's money.  Three DUI's is gonna put you in a hard ass spot when it comes to making real money, because an employer is going to see that and see you for what you are.  You gonna start your own business? Have fun getting the startup capital.

It is unfortunate that your love for the private sector doesn't allow for cheap, accessible health care, or healthy, wholesome foods for a just price, quality, affordable education (ever seen the price of a private school, even for kids who grew up just down the street for one?), or even a fucking job that pays a livable wage for the 10%  of Americans that are currently out of employment.  They would rather pay their CEO multi-million dollar severance packages so the next sheep in line can get a slice of the pie, and then quit two years later for an even better severance package.

No modern economists with any sort of merit believe a truly free market system can ever succeed.  Maybe it is the "liberal bitch"es who make it so it won't, but your economic ideology is one of the past.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Thinking like this is very dangerous, no one with 1 or 20 million just has money rolling in without work or risk, usually both, maybe you should fact check before making such absurd claims.




I think maybe you should both fact check and read what I actually said.  There is no hard work in making investments in the stock market, and once you have capital such as this $1-20million range we are discussing, if you do it right, there is very little risk to lose it all, and if you don't come away with some sort of earnings, you're not doing it right.  It doesn't take a genius to invest properly. 

Maybe a reality check is in order for you as well.

But then again, the whole stock market thing to me is another way of wealth redistribution.  Yes, a person can invest $100 into a company, but even if the price of the share multiplies increase to 1000% of their investment value, they will only make as much money as somebody who invests a million dollars that only increases 1% of their initial investment (my math may be off , but the concept is what you seem to not understand).  If a person with a million dollar investment loses 1%, not a big deal, but even though the said person who started with $100, and now has $1100, would need to bank on two or three more stocks raising 1000% (do you understand how much this actually is for a stock share to increase?  I'm pretty sure in the short term, it is almost impossible), and buying out each time after they hit the "jackpot", they now somehow only have as much money as the person who started with $1,000,000.  If that million were invested in the same stocks, the original million dollars would be turned into BILLIONS.  And this is all on the back of the person that is unemployed, because not hiring one more person increases that stock share ever so slightly.  If their heirs do it right, they'll never have to work a day in their life, while still raking in more and more money.

If that isn't exactly the same thing you accuse "liberals" of doing to the "wealthy," than I'll be damned.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:

If you where not paid enough then you shoukld have quit. If you really wanted to start your own comapny then you could have, it would have been small but you could have if you where that good.

So what is a top college and who did the rating? Oh yeah a lib who thinks that they have a right to my money.

Once agian just because the majority thinks it is ok does not make it right, if I got 151 million people to agree you should die does that make it right? Fuck no.

Yes it would be mandatory if you wanted to have a home, tvs, a car, and good food. That is a given you have to do something for something, in your dream world a few work for the benefit of the rest and most people would do nothing for something.


And as far as being paid less than what your worth you are sort of correct. No comapny in there right mind would pay you more than you are worth, even Rush Limbaugh with his $400 million dollar contract is not paid what he is "worth", if they did oay him exactkley what he was worth they would not make any money and they would go broke
.




HA, why don't you quit your job because you "aren't getting paid enough".  That is ABSURD.  I've done it before and it was the worst decision of my life, because even if you aren't getting paid ENOUGH, at least you are still getting SOMETHING.  That is a lot more than a lot of people can say right now, and you seem to ignore that fact.

Are you really trying to question what is a "top college?"  Are you really trying to suggest they are only good because a "liberal" rated them that way... Did you even go to ANY college?

How exactly is a person who lives paycheck to paycheck supposed to start their own business man?  A loan?  HAHA, the banks don't loan money any more, even though they were given billions and billions and BILLIONS of dollars in bailout money, they (once again) gave their CEOs fat severances, and "pissed" the money away (as Pris would say).  Then they decide to raise their fees, introduce new fees, and lower your interest rates.  HMMMM... Sounds like a great plan (private sector does have the best plans to make themselves money! Remember how the Fed is a private instituation???).

I'm sure a lot more than 151 million people thought Osama Bin Laden should die, are you saying he didn't deserve it?

I don't know a single, respectable person (although there are many that abuse the system) that receive some sort of food-stamp or welfare-type assistance that wouldn't rather work for an honest, fair wage, and provide for their own families.  You obviously don't understand the position that many of these people are in (once again, the great private sector won't hire), and what else would you expect?  Allow them to populate the streets and starve to death?  Before that would happen, we would see a REAL revolt in this country, and since everybody is armed, there would be some serious issues.

It is funny because any sort of compensation given to Rush Limbaugh for his "work" is more than he is worth.  Obviously, since that was the first name you thought to use in such a situation, you are a big fan, which I now understand where your tired, outdated rhetoric is coming from.  You realize that good ol' Rush was born into money, RIGHT?  He never had to work a damn day in his life (never got that important education you seem to talk about, dropping out of college after one year), and was able to "piss away" upwards of $5,000 a day on PRESCRIPTION PAIN KILLERS. I don't even know how I would spend $5,000 in a single month, or even 6 months, let a lone a damn day, on some drugs.

Finally, nobody is saying you need to pay somebody what their net worth is, but the fact of the matter is, they aren't even getting paid what their actual contribution to a corporation is worth, and that is not even in the slightest bit of fair (and I'm not one to EVER bitch about "fairness").  When life isn't fair because thats how the deck was shuffled, so be it, when life isn't fair because you're getting boned in the ass by a corporation making record profit, thats downright unjust.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14599188 - 06/12/11 01:55 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ok I guess I can start with your claim thatI will only make 9.50 an hour at TGIFridays, I make more than that now waiting tables. I can and will make more because I will not let anything stop me from doing so. I am responsible for my life and no one else, if I have to work twenty hour days to achieve this I will.

What does three duis make me? A loser that can never make enough money to start a business? I do not think so, they will see someone who has been down and out that has worked long and hard to dig themselves out of a deep fucking whole that I dug.

Start up capital will not be borrowed, I will save it myself, I save every penny I can and do not spend frivolous. I can do it as long as I continue to work hard and follow my plan.

Yes I know how much private school costs and yes my children will be enrolled in one. It is worth it to me to have less now so they can have more later.

If you think it is easy and there is little risk involved in the stock market then you could turn your hundred into a thousand and the thousand into a million no problem, let me know how that works out.

Healthcare is so expensive due to government regulation, if not for current regulations we would not have to pay nearly as much.

A free market has never existed in the history of human kind so how on earth can anyone say that it would not work? You are saying that humans are innately greedy and that without regulation we could not exist as humans and attempt to better our own lives. That is all a free market allows, for you to do your best and either fail or succeed, at your own expense, no one elses.

I do not think that even you have any idea what you are saying about Osama dyeing, please explain your point so I can refute it.

If they wanted to live on there own accord and not receive welfare they would get a menial job or two, maybe even three to pay for there own needs. I have been homeless and without a penny to my name before, guess what, I got a fucking job. I have planted tobacco for %5 an hour, I have cleaned toilets for minimum wage, and have spent countless days mowing yards for half of what others charged so that I could support myself. I know what it is like to be down and out, I never once thought others owed me a moment of the ree life because they happen to be better off at the moment. Let me know the next time you sleep in the woods and wear the same clothes for days at a time without bathing because of your poor decisions. I have been there, and never will be again, if not for those rich people I would still be doing those things. They made it possible for me to have what I do today, by purchasing the goods and services I provided.

As far as Rush in concerned I am not a fan, I think he is a hypocritical pompous ass that will not stick to his own personal beliefs because he fears alienating his audience, I used him as a frame of reference because almost everyone knows of him. I think his drug habit is none of anyones business, it was his money to do with what he pleased. If you wanted to smoke $50000 WORTH OF CRACK A DAY, IAM ALL FOR IT. It is your life and money, not mine, do as you pleaseAs long as you are not harming me or anyone else you should be free to do as you please.

And just so we are clear, a corporation makes a profit buy selling something, either a good or service for you to consume, if you do not purchase these things they do not make a profit. It is not unjust to give people an option. You make think it is, but i is not.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14599192 - 06/12/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so can you show me where ford put on 100,000 people in their US plants? or maybe where hundreds of dealerships opened back up to sell the chevy volt



Zappa's original article, which attempts to be critical of Obama, confirms that 113,000 jobs were created:

Quote:

The official Bureau of Labor Statistics data refers to the entire auto industry — including foreign auto manufacturers, auto parts manufacturers, auto parts dealers and auto dealers. If you look at the data, the 113,200 jobs added between June 2009 and May 2011 amounts to about a 5 percent increase




There was no claim by Obama or anyone else that Ford hired 100,000 American workers.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14599262 - 06/12/11 02:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Those jobs did not come into creation due to the bailouts though. They came about due to increased demand for the products they provide, nothing else. The bailout did little more than give an ailing industry money to feed its bad habits. The foreign companies that are included in the 113,000 jobs created did not recieve TARP funds, so how can those numbers be atrributed to the success of the bailout.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599281 - 06/12/11 02:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Ok I guess I can start with your claim thatI will only make 9.50 an hour at TGIFridays, I make more than that now waiting tables. I can and will make more because I will not let anything stop me from doing so. I am responsible for my life and no one else, if I have to work twenty hour days to achieve this I will.

What does three duis make me? A loser that can never make enough money to start a business? I do not think so, they will see someone who has been down and out that has worked long and hard to dig themselves out of a deep fucking whole that I dug.

Start up capital will not be borrowed, I will save it myself, I save every penny I can and do not spend frivolous. I can do it as long as I continue to work hard and follow my plan.

Yes I know how much private school costs and yes my children will be enrolled in one. It is worth it to me to have less now so they can have more later.

If you think it is easy and there is little risk involved in the stock market then you could turn your hundred into a thousand and the thousand into a million no problem, let me know how that works out.

Healthcare is so expensive due to government regulation, if not for current regulations we would not have to pay nearly as much.

A free market has never existed in the history of human kind so how on earth can anyone say that it would not work? You are saying that humans are innately greedy and that without regulation we could not exist as humans and attempt to better our own lives. That is all a free market allows, for you to do your best and either fail or succeed, at your own expense, no one elses.

I do not think that even you have any idea what you are saying about Osama dyeing, please explain your point so I can refute it.

If they wanted to live on there own accord and not receive welfare they would get a menial job or two, maybe even three to pay for there own needs. I have been homeless and without a penny to my name before, guess what, I got a fucking job. I have planted tobacco for %5 an hour, I have cleaned toilets for minimum wage, and have spent countless days mowing yards for half of what others charged so that I could support myself. I know what it is like to be down and out, I never once thought others owed me a moment of the ree life because they happen to be better off at the moment. Let me know the next time you sleep in the woods and wear the same clothes for days at a time without bathing because of your poor decisions. I have been there, and never will be again, if not for those rich people I would still be doing those things. They made it possible for me to have what I do today, by purchasing the goods and services I provided.

As far as Rush in concerned I am not a fan, I think he is a hypocritical pompous ass that will not stick to his own personal beliefs because he fears alienating his audience, I used him as a frame of reference because almost everyone knows of him. I think his drug habit is none of anyones business, it was his money to do with what he pleased. If you wanted to smoke $50000 WORTH OF CRACK A DAY, IAM ALL FOR IT. It is your life and money, not mine, do as you pleaseAs long as you are not harming me or anyone else you should be free to do as you please.

And just so we are clear, a corporation makes a profit buy selling something, either a good or service for you to consume, if you do not purchase these things they do not make a profit. It is not unjust to give people an option. You make think it is, but i is not.




May I ask how old you are?  It seems you're buying into the corporate hamster wheel where "eventually some day I will have enough money to make it big" ... Except you won't.  And the fact that no employer is going to see you as "someone who worked long and hard" they're going to see three DUIs and the next application that has 0.  You were homeless without a penny?  You must have looked great walking into that interview, but I don't believe your story for a second to begin with, so it is a moot point. So people with children are supposed to, instead of raising them, work twenty hours a day to make ends meet?  You realize that this isn't even physically possible to sustain for more than MAYBE  couple of weeks, right?  What did you say your education level was again?  Sorry to bust your bubble but there are a lot more forces in play than you either ignore or don't understand (your personal corporate wheel must be located in a cave somewhere), but you're not gonna be making much more money than you do right now waiting.  Do you accept tips????? BECAUSE THAT IS YOU TAKING ANOTHER PERSON'S DOLLAR, you get paid a wage, don't be reaching your hand in those rich customer's pockets and taking more money from them!

You planted tobacco for $5 an hour?  Was this before a minimum wage of at least 5.15 was in place?  Because anybody else would have opened their eyes and sued the fuck outta someone for not paying minimum wage.  All this in your own words, now let me quote

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
I have planted tobacco for %5 an hour, I have cleaned toilets for minimum wage, and have spent countless days mowing yards for half of what others charged so that I could support myself.





And exactly what quality of life were you living while making five dollars an hour, or scrubbing toilets for minimum wage, or "half of what others charged" ?  What if you had a child to support man? 

And to say that the government regulations are what keeps medical costs so high is a huge fallacy.  The reason health care costs are so high is GREED, on the back of sick people.  I looked at an insurance statement once, and I had a half hour doctors visit that would have cost me over $300.  That's ten dollars a minute.  Ten dollars a minute.  TEN DOLLARS A MINUTE.  You're saying that is due to government regulation?  You're out of your damn mind if you for one second believe that.  The government tells doctors to charge TEN DOLLARS A MINUTE?  No, the insurance companies do because they can extort more people if they make them fearful of what "actual costs" would be.

Oh and this startup capital you plan on saving... I have worked in the food industry my entire life, and I have not seen ONE PERSON, save up enough money to go start their own business.

Wait.  I did meet this guy who had previously quit his position to start his own business... and then it FAILED, and he was right back where he was, except with no money to his name.

Just remember, next time somebody leaves you that gracious tip, explain to them that you do not accept handouts, and ask them to either take it back or donate it to a more noble cause, like an inheritance for their dog.

You claim that as long as you don't harm anyone else your fine, but, you don't see any of the harm being done to this nation by the flow of wealth and its consolidation amongst a group of 500 or so individuals, while the rest of the nation suffers in the worst recession since the great depression?  Come on now...  And you plan on sending your child to a private school?  Are you going to be doing that on a server's wage?

There is a reason there has never been a totally free market, because every time a market shifts towards a free market, shit starts going to hell.  Communist and socialistic societies have faired better than markets that head toward purely capitalistic throughout history.  It just won't work, the greed of the wealthy is too much, and we end up right back in a plutocracy, but that sounds ideal to you, right?


Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Those jobs did not come into creation due to the bailouts though. They came about due to increased demand for the products they provide, nothing else. The bailout did little more than give an ailing industry money to feed its bad habits. The foreign companies that are included in the 113,000 jobs created did not recieve TARP funds, so how can those numbers be atrributed to the success of the bailout.





You're hurting your cause here... Private companies... Shipping jobs over seas... Jobs Americans used to have... But it's all about profit...

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599344 - 06/12/11 03:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
  never said Fiat did, they make up less than 50% of the investors as of now in Chrysler though. Maybe you did not read that.



You said "most of the people in this thread have forgotten that when Chrysler and GM "paid" back this money that they paid it with another loan that they got from the U.S. government, just a different 'account'."  I felt you were making that up and asked for proof.  You then sent me a link entitled "Fiat to buy remaining US stake in Chrysler" which said "Italian automaker Fiat SpA said Friday that it will buy the Treasury's remaining stake in Chrysler Group LLC, freeing the automaker of U.S. government ownership.  The Turin, Italy-based company notified the U.S. Treasury that it will exercise an option to buy the government's 6 percent stake."  What do you mean you never said Fiat bailed Chrysler out???  I just quoted your own link!  You not only made up the fact that Chrysler Government loans were paid off by other Government loans, but you also made a false claim that you never said Fiat repaid them.  :wtf: 

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
If you where not paid enough then you shoukld have quit. If you really wanted to start your own comapny then you could have, it would have been small but you could have if you where that good.



I did quit, but that didn't increase my salary.  And no, I never could have have started a small company that builds the multi-million dollar equipment I was making.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
So what is a top college and who did the rating? Oh yeah a lib who thinks that they have a right to my money.



Can you provide evidence that college ratings are done by liberals, or are you making up your facts yet again?

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Once agian just because the majority thinks it is ok does not make it right, if I got 151 million people to agree you should die does that make it right? Fuck no.



I agree.  We have a death penalty in this country.  Whether it's right or not is irrelevant; but it's there because the majority of Americans support it.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
in your dream world a few work for the benefit of the rest and most people would do nothing for something.



Now you're not only making things up, you're sounding dumb.  In my "dream world", I get paid a fair wage for my work, not the lowest "going rate" that business owners dole out so they can reap all the benefits of my hard work.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
No comapny in there right mind would pay you more than you are worth



Nor should they.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
even Rush Limbaugh with his $400 million dollar contract is not paid what he is "worth", if they did oay him exactkley what he was worth they would not make any money and they would go broke
.



If you think Rush should be paid more than $400 million, then I assume you're a HUGE fan, and now I understand where you learned to make up your facts.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14599371 - 06/12/11 03:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

PileusSonofGalt, I hate to tell you, but you are officially on my ignore list.  You are so blindly optimistic that working hard will pay off, yet all I have to say is "Work smart, not hard"  the top 10% of Americans control roughly 70% of the wealth and once again, I hate to break it to you, but you will never, ever, EVER, reach that level.  No matter how hard you work, you won't make it.

There is no point in any more discussion with you, because your belief that somehow this is a just society, where hard work and a good education will somehow reward you, is completely false and there is no data to back up your assertion.  It's okay, I'll never make it to that top 10%, but at least when I have money, I spend it, making sure that the guy working at the local mom and pop store still has a job tomorrow, because I am helping pay for his wage by spending my money.

I find it funny that you have the mentality of the ultra-wealthy, but you don't have nor will you ever have enough money to ever be considered one of them.  You hoard your money, stuck in a lie to yourself that somehow you're going to save enough money cutting grass for half the price, planting tobacco for under minimum wage, scrubbing toilets for minimum wage, and serving at a restaurant to launch a business.  How exactly are you going to run a business, when you don't even see the issues with the way today's business are being run.  There is a reason small businesses have been hurt the most in the recession: market share.  Multinational corporations ran by the ultra-rich force these stores to close, because they can't provide the same cheap goods that so greatly increase the holy profit you seem to put on a pedestal.

If you do someday, somehow, by luck start your own business, are you going to pay your employees minimum wage?  Let me tell you, you pay for minimum wage work, you will get minimum wage work.  People don't go to wal-mart for the friendly employees, they go there for cheap prices.  There is a reason these companies never allow you to reach full time, so they don't have to pay you more and provide benefits.  All in the name of profit.  However, as a small business, you will NOT have the luxury to be able to treat employees with the same level of disrespect, and you too will fail, just like the rest.

It tells a lot about self worth what you are able to do for $5 an hour.  It doesn't say anything good about how you value yourself.  You admit you are a loser, and only a loser would be satisfied with doing work for half the pay that it demands.  Just like you say that you don't have to buy a product from a company, you don't have to work for less than what you deserve to make for a job.  This isn't desperation, this isn't "whatever it takes" mentality, this is allowing yourself to be extorted, in the same way that the top 1% of the people who control 30%+ of the wealth in the nation have been extorting the average citizen for a long time.  You are doing NOTHING but reaffirming these actions, that someone out there will do it because they find themselves "desperate" enough.  Once again, it is not desperation, but defeat.  You allow yourself to be taken advantage of and you had no issue with it, and you still don't.

If somehow you do start your business, remember how it felt to be treated with as little respect as you were treated, to not even be paid a wage that you could live on.  But of course, it's all about profits, so obviously you won't give a fuck.  Go hire the Mexican for $4/hr so he can send 90% of it back to Mexico.  At least you will be saving $3.50/hr, and a penny saved is a penny earned.  People with your thought process make me sick that you can have an outlook on humanity this way, even though you were for some reason okay with leaving an animal $12,000,000 (more money than you would  earn in three of your lifetimes), you don't think that a human should be given the dignity and respect of an honest wage.

So, when eventually realize that what you are describing, and what you currently believe in, will lead to a very bleak future, for a country that after the 'socialist' FDR implemented his 'socialist policies' was revitalized and brought closer as a community.  These programs were then deregulated, towards your ideal free market, and look where we are today.  Back before your beloved private sector bought out the government, and there were Americans being employed by American companies, not chinese children, or indians.  When eventually your restaurant closes, because nobody has any more money togo out to eat because none of them have jobs, and the top 10% controls 95% of the wealth, maybe you'll understand that your thought process will do nothing for this country, and in turn, this country will do nothing for you.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599388 - 06/12/11 03:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Those jobs did not come into creation due to the bailouts though. They came about due to increased demand for the products they provide, nothing else.



If the bailouts didn't happen, Chrysler and GM would no longer exist today.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
The foreign companies that are included in the 113,000 jobs created did not recieve TARP funds, so how can those numbers be atrributed to the success of the bailout.



What "foreign companies" are you referring to?  If you mean US based suppliers, they did indeed benefit from the bailout, as GM and Chrysler buy parts from them.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14599390 - 06/12/11 03:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I am twenty seven, I did not look good, and it was not really an interview, I went to the Waffle House in town and asked every person I saw if they needed somework done. I eventually found work with a guy who was willing to pay me $5 an hour in cash for planting tobacco. He let me live in his barn until I could save enough money to get my own place. I work now for OSI, easily one of the largest restaurant groups in the world, it took me several weeks to convince my current GM to give me a job, but I got it. It took a lot of hard work and persistence to get my foot in the door.

Sorry but accepting a tip left by another human being of free will is not TAKING, they paid me according to what they valued my services worth.

My quality of life was very poor, that is why I value my quality of life so much now, because I have been broke, I have been homeless, I have not had anyone believe in me. I am a hypomanic bipolar that self medicated with alcohol and pain meds until I found a way to deal with it. I still have bad days, quite often, but my previous experiences will keep me from falling back into my old ways.

I graduated from Xavier last year with a degree in business management, it has and will continue to helped me to succeed in life.

As far as if I had a child, her name is Hannah and she turned five in March, I was not able to support my child when she was born, now I can, and I will never allow that to happen again. If not for her I would probably still be homeless. I currently do not see her, her mom has custody and lives in another state. Because of my drinking, however, I go to court on the seventh of July to begin what is sure to be a battle over custody.  It does not however keep me from supporting her, I will do whatever is required to do so. Even if it means working twenty hours a day sometimes. It is easily worth it.

Ever seen the show Bizarre Foods? Andrew Zimmerman lived on the streets of New York City for a year as a homeless, thieving, drug addict, look at him now. But oh wait, you cannot get a job being homeless.

Just because you have not seen anyone do it does not mean it cannot be done. I have never seen someone split an atom but It happens everyday. I can and I will open my own restaurant, even if I am fifty when it happens. If I fail so be it, but it will not stop me from trying again.

As far as that $300 dollar visit, your insurance company got billed that much because that is what it costs to deal with them, due to government regulation. I used to have insurance, my psychiatrist billed them around $270 an hour, now that I pay him in cash it is %$90 an hour. Due to less paperwork and less regulation. He must have properly filled out forms, according to government specs to be paid by an insurance company. My dollar however is not nearly as regulated, I choose to see him for my own benefit, he does not have to justify his billing with anyone. I decide wehter or not it is worth it.

Yes they ship jobs oversees, due to once again, less regulation, higher profits, and the livelihood of there corporation. If you and others did not like having affordable cars, housewares, tvs, computers, Ipods and the like they would not do so. However, to produce an equivalent product in the US versus China, it would be a much higher price. Consumer choices and government regulations are what cause jobs to be shipped overseas.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14599405 - 06/12/11 03:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Fiat to buy remaining US stake in Chrysler" which said "Italian automaker Fiat SpA said Friday that it will buy the Treasury's remaining stake in Chrysler Group LLC, freeing the automaker of U.S. government ownership.  The Turin, Italy-based company notified the U.S. Treasury that it will exercise an option to buy the government's 6 percent stake.

It says in the article they WILL buy out, not that they did, but WILL buy it out.
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
If you where not paid enough then you shoukld have quit. If you really wanted to start your own comapny then you could have, it would have been small but you could have if you where that good.



I did quit, but that didn't increase my salary.  And no, I never could have have started a small company that builds the multi-million dollar equipment I was making.

You may have had to start by making parts for the machines, but you could have and still could do it.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
So what is a top college and who did the rating? Oh yeah a lib who thinks that they have a right to my money.



Can you provide evidence that college ratings are done by liberals, or are you making up your facts yet again?

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Once agian just because the majority thinks it is ok does not make it right, if I got 151 million people to agree you should die does that make it right? Fuck no.



I agree.  We have a death penalty in this country.  Whether it's right or not is irrelevant; but it's there because the majority of Americans support it.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
in your dream world a few work for the benefit of the rest and most people would do nothing for something.



Now you're not only making things up, you're sounding dumb.  In my "dream world", I get paid a fair wage for my work, not the lowest "going rate" that business owners dole out so they can reap all the benefits of my hard work.

A fair wage is what you decide to work for, nothing more or less. No one forced you to work for Siemens, they only paid you because you showed up. The whole point of working is to earn a profit for yourself, they do the same thing you do. Work to earn a profit. You reaped the benefits of there hard work that went into building the company and providing you with a chance to work for them.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
No comapny in there right mind would pay you more than you are worth



Nor should they.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
even Rush Limbaugh with his $400 million dollar contract is not paid what he is "worth", if they did oay him exactkley what he was worth they would not make any money and they would go broke
.



If you think Rush should be paid more than $400 million, then I assume you're a HUGE fan, and now I understand where you learned to make up your facts.




I did not say he should be paid more and I am not a fan of his. I have no use for a hypocritical zealot whom panders to his audience a vile spew of misinformation and fear.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599410 - 06/12/11 03:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

However if he is being paid 400 million then he is onviously worth more than that, that is why they pay him that much. So that he earns a profit and they do as well. It is no different than paying a mechanic at a dealer $30 an hour when they charge you $60 for labor. The mechanic gets paid, the dealer gets paid, and you have a car to drive.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599428 - 06/12/11 04:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Shanghai Jiao Tong University

This is the university that did the ratings you quoted, a communist ran school. Pretty close to a lib in my opinion. I do not remember who made the post but it said something about communist and socialist countries being better somehow. One thing I find amusing is the complete lack of mentioning that for either of those systems to be in place you must first have a capitalist society, then you switch over to communism. Marx himself came up with the term capitalism and says it must be achieved in order to have a communist society.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599432 - 06/12/11 04:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What the fuck happened to my ignore list?  I guess I only have one more thing to say:  I think you are a complete liar.  You work for OSI?  So you work in a chain restaurant as a server?  A chain restaurant let you work for free for multiple weeks? I'm not sure, but I thought that was illegal?  You lie about getting a job interview, when really you were the homeless guy asking for work and a guy lent a hand, probably not even thinking you'd show up?  You somehow have three DUI's in six years, were homeless, went to college, made $5 an hour ? But in another post claimed you had made $37,000 on paper in a year before?  Less regulation in jobs overseas?  LIke paying ten year olds two dollars a day?  Like having no sort of safety in the workplace?  If me and others didn't like these things?  You're typing on a computer, you drove in a car at least three times, and probably have bought many items made in china because you were so terribly strapped for cash, right?  Ford seemed to be doing just fine in the 60's when the jobs were still in America, when did they file for bankruptcy again?  Once the American people couldn't afford their products because they shipped all the jobs that used to enable people to buy these things overseas?  Is livelihood your new word for profit?  You have a degree in business management but don't see that as relevant to own your own business? For some reason serving in a restaurant makes sense?

I feel bad for you man, maybe if insurance and pharmaceutical companies were concerned about your health you would be able to purchase the medication you obviously so very much need, for a reasonable price; but then again, it is probably the government regulations on pharmaceutical companies to not bring every drug to the market without extensive testing so that we aren't playing russain roulette going to the pharmacy, right?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14599444 - 06/12/11 04:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Damn good posts ShroomyJohn.  :congrats:

PileusSonofGalt, I appreciate all the effort you're putting into your posts, and for sharing about yourself, but if you think that working 20 hours a day for a meager wage while raising a child is the way to succeed in life, you're just ignorant.  That's not how millionaires get to be where they are. 

Things were better in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.  People could raise a family and buy a house and car with only one working parent.  Taxes on the rich were high, but they still got by just fine.  Now families with two income earners struggle, because more and more people like you think that we should be letting the rich pay less taxes, while eliminating benefits that we used to enjoy.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599452 - 06/12/11 04:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Oh no, not the ignore list! Whatever shall I do? I do not plan on being super wealthy, but I will have enough money to send my children to the school I choose. I will have the money to pay my bills and not rely on others for my quality of life. I find it amusing you think I allowed myself to be extorted, I did nothing of the sort. I did what was needed to sustain my life. I did it just long enough to get myself out of the mess I was in. If I had not I would have had nothing, everyday I had more than I started with, that was enough to get me going. That was all I needed, because at the end of the day I will make it. I would never do anything for less than what I think it is worth, to me, at the time, it was. That is why now I have a home, a garden, a laptop, a 42" Samsung plasma in my bedroom and three other flat screens in my house, this is why now I can eat loafs of bread that I buy from a local baker for $4 a loaf, oh but I hoard all my money, thats right I have none of this. And local shops are out of business because I do not buy from them.

Those super wealthy you speak of are who pays most peoples wages. Do you buy a new Cadillac every year? Nope, but they do, and they pay for some guy in Detroit to build it, every year. The also come into my restaurant and pay me for providing them a service they find desirable. They purchase obscene amounts of home goods, food, and wine. All from people who at some point started a small business and either got bigger due to increased demand or failed due to whatever reasons. Giant corporations are not even close to the top of the list as to why they failed though. Walmart started as a mom and pop shop, now they employ hundreds of thousands, if not for walmart many of those unskilled workers would not have jobs.

And as far as the bailouts saving GM and Chrysler, they did, I will not disagree. However, they should have FAILED, they should have went into bankruptcy just like you or I would have had to do in that situation. At what point does a company become so valuable that at any cost it should remain open? NEVER! If you fail you fail, someone else will step in and fill the void created by their failure. Not everyone can succeed, sometimes people and companies fail, it is how the world works.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14599455 - 06/12/11 04:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Shanghai Jiao Tong University

This is the university that did the ratings you quoted, a communist ran school.



The ratings I quoted are US News and World Report.  I don't know how you associated them with Shanghai Jiao Tong University.

And it wasn't me that said communism is better.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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