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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Obama's Auto Industry Success
    #14573213 - 06/07/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Touting it prominently as evidence of his ability to continue working on the economy seems like a counter-productive thing to do, considering that the steps the federal government had to take in order to produce that kind of success are never going to be achievable again, thus establishing that he doesn't have very many tools left to improve things in the short-to-mid term.
If he were smart, he'd start making a lot of concessions to the Republicans. There's a few Democrats in the Senate that would love the chance to get their asses out of the boiling pot they are in for reelection this year (in places like Nebraska and other tea-infused locales), so he'd even have the ability to pass all of that legislation. I don't think there would be any stopping him if he were to do that. :wink:


--------------------
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I wouldn't fear
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Like being here
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14573293 - 06/07/11 08:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Your politicians aren't so candid.

They aren't really making any decisions. They are merely a face to a background influence made up of the military industrial complex primarily.

Watch your politicians candidly laugh about dropping some bombs on Lybia, a week before they 'NATO' repose on Quadaffi.



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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14573295 - 06/07/11 08:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
...the steps the federal government had to take in order to produce that kind of success are never going to be achievable again



Unless the federal government decides they want to produce that kind of success again.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
If he were smart, he'd start making a lot of concessions to the Republicans.



START?!?!?  :jawdrop:

Follow politics much???  That's all he does.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
There's a few Democrats in the Senate that would love the chance to get their asses out of the boiling pot they are in for reelection this year (in places like Nebraska and other tea-infused locales), so he'd even have the ability to pass all of that legislation.



What exactly are Republicans proposing, other to make put more and more burden on the middle class so the rich can keep their tax cuts???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14573309 - 06/07/11 08:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

My country has already dropped 240 laser guided missile, on this no fly zone.

We are buying 1300 more, at an average cost of 100 000 dollars EACH.

Our government won't even tell us who is reaping in the profits from this 1300 bomb contract, totalling roughly, 130 000 000 dollars.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/25/libya-cda-bombs.html

Mind you this is all for use in Lybia.


--------------------
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14573449 - 06/07/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Unless the federal government decides they want to produce that kind of success again.




Federal government intervention in corporations like that is highly popular with the public and power-wielding Republicans nowadays. :rofl2:

Quote:


Follow politics much???  That's all he does.




He's not doing nearly enough to save his own ass. :shrug:

Quote:


What exactly are Republicans proposing, other to make put more and more burden on the middle class so the rich can keep their tax cuts???




Deep federal spending cuts, which is a pretty obvious answer when one follows the news. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14573534 - 06/07/11 09:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Why would anyone want to see him re-elected?:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14573730 - 06/07/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Success my ass:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-phony-accounting-on-the-auto-industry-bailout/2011/06/06/AG3nefKH_blog.html

Not only is this bullshit but an even bigger bailout of the auto companies involved the rapine of their creditors through expedited and coerced bankruptcy proceedings.  Who wouldn't be doing better if all of a sudden they no longer had loan interest payments to meet?

And one other thing.  Don't forget that taxpayers were forced to subsidize people buying cars through the cash for clunkers abomination.  When are we gonna get that money back?


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14574334 - 06/07/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Lol auto industry success:
-Force mgmt out
-Force wage cuts on unions (obviously neededto be done, but still)
-New CEO team makes drastic cuts
-Profit


yeah, i like how this new economy works. 






NOT

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14576870 - 06/07/11 09:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Success my ass:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-phony-accounting-on-the-auto-industry-bailout/2011/06/06/AG3nefKH_blog.html




The author of that article is far more dishonest than Obama.  I was going to write a rebuttal, but it was done for me already:  Fact Checking the Fact Checker

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Not only is this bullshit but an even bigger bailout of the auto companies involved the rapine of their creditors through expedited and coerced bankruptcy proceedings.  Who wouldn't be doing better if all of a sudden they no longer had loan interest payments to meet?



Do you think bankruptcy should be friendly to those going bankrupt?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And one other thing.  Don't forget that taxpayers were forced to subsidize people buying cars through the cash for clunkers abomination.  When are we gonna get that money back?



Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept of stimulus spending?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleLayinUp
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Registered: 04/14/11
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14576885 - 06/07/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i blame this on monetary greed

take away the money, take away the incentive to commit crimes

just saying


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14576911 - 06/07/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Federal government intervention in corporations like that is highly popular with the public and power-wielding Republicans nowadays. :rofl2:



Perhaps a few million jobs saved only appeals to power-wielding Democrats.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
He's not doing nearly enough to save his own ass. :shrug:



He doesn't need to make the right or the left happy - he only needs to target the middle to get reelected.  :shrug:

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What exactly are Republicans proposing, other to make put more and more burden on the middle class so the rich can keep their tax cuts???




Deep federal spending cuts, which is a pretty obvious answer when one follows the news. :wink:



That's what I said.  :wink:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14577320 - 06/07/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Federal government intervention in corporations like that is highly popular with the public and power-wielding Republicans nowadays. :rofl2:



Perhaps a few million jobs saved only appeals to power-wielding Democrats.




Let's be real here.  A few million jobs saved?  Thats obscene.  The administration passed a 700B+ stimulus package and I kept seeing CNN report a bunch of odds-and-ends jobs projects being started:

"This renovation of the XYZ beach pier will add 19 jobs to the economy"...blah blah blah



the stimulus was weaksauce on jobs.  lol.  a few million jobs saved by cash for clunkers.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: memes]
    #14578235 - 06/08/11 04:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

> the stimulus was weaksauce on jobs.  lol.  a few million jobs saved by cash for clunkers.

Yep... the CBO estimates that it cost $228,055 per job saved/created by the stimulus package.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Seuss]
    #14578585 - 06/08/11 07:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> the stimulus was weaksauce on jobs.  lol.  a few million jobs saved by cash for clunkers.

Yep... the CBO estimates that it cost $228,055 per job saved/created by the stimulus package.



Ugly figure, but definitely not as bad as I expected.


$228,055 is what it cost to keep an employee in a job:

Minus the money the government will get back in income tax (that wouldn't otherwise exist)

Minus the contribution of the economic activity resulting from the continued employment of these individuals (they spend money when they have a job)








For simplicity's sake, i'll assume that takes the cost/person down to 200k.  if they still have a job, and would've lost it to the recession, and the recession is still going on --- that 200k sounds like a few years wages :shrug:

i must say, i'm not as disappointed as I thought.  big tiem.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: memes]
    #14578660 - 06/08/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

> i must say, i'm not as disappointed as I thought.  big tiem.

I don't have the exact figure, but it has been estimated that over half of the jobs saved were government (state and federal) employees, with the bulk of them being teachers.

I wouldn't be as upset at the number if it were four times smaller... the government picking up a portion of the cost to keep a person employed rather than picking up several times the cost.  Regardless, in my mind, the vast majority of the stimulus spending as a huge waste of money with little to no return.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14579052 - 06/08/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Success my ass:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-phony-accounting-on-the-auto-industry-bailout/2011/06/06/AG3nefKH_blog.html




The author of that article is far more dishonest than Obama.  I was going to write a rebuttal, but it was done for me already:  Fact Checking the Fact Checker




You cited the White House?:rofl2::facepalm:
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Not only is this bullshit but an even bigger bailout of the auto companies involved the rapine of their creditors through expedited and coerced bankruptcy proceedings.  Who wouldn't be doing better if all of a sudden they no longer had loan interest payments to meet?



Do you think bankruptcy should be friendly to those going bankrupt?




No. 
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And one other thing.  Don't forget that taxpayers were forced to subsidize people buying cars through the cash for clunkers abomination.  When are we gonna get that money back?



Perhaps you're not familiar with the concept of stimulus spending?




:rofl2::facepalm:  Right.  That worked real well. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/08/business/08gm.html?_r=1

Quote:

The executive, Daniel F. Akerson, said that G.M. was working to maximize its payback to taxpayers, but that the government did not make a bad investment even if it did not recover the full amount given to the company.

“At some level, the government’s got to decide: are they an investor or were they trying to save the industry?” Mr. Akerson told reporters ahead of G.M.’s first annual stockholder meeting since its 2009 government-financed bankruptcy.

A report last week by the White House National Economic Council concluded that the government would probably have to write off about $14 billion of the $80 billion spent rescuing the auto industry by the Bush and Obama administrations.





I cite the Washington Post and the NY Times, two extremely Dem friendly rags, as reporting that Obama is a lying liar and in rebuttal you provide Obama's mouthorgan as evidence.  Some people just don't give a fuck, I guess.  You'd probably still support him if he shot up a room full of school children.  Kool-aid, anyone?.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Seuss]
    #14579312 - 06/08/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Regardless, in my mind, the vast majority of the stimulus spending as a huge waste of money with little to no return.



Agreed.  As usual, stimulus spending wasn't spent on the proper return-generating projects :frown:

Is it ever?  Lol @ obama's economic team leaving one-by-one

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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: Seuss]
    #14581113 - 06/08/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

Yep... the CBO estimates that it cost $228,055 per job saved/created by the stimulus package.




The stimulus wasn't just about jobs.  It was about the bridges, roads, water plants, etc., that we'll be driving on, across, or otherwise using for decades.  The salaries paid were only a fraction of that.  That price-per-job figure would also be a lot lower if many State governors had used it for its intended purpose instead of using it to balance their own state books, thereby not creating the infrastructure improvements and jobs it was intended to.  At any rate, economists are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it prevented a total collapse of the economy at the time, while right-wing politicians are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it was a total waste. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as usual.

It was a mistake to trust the State Governors to do the right thing with that chunk of our change with no strings attached.  Some of them did, some didn't.
RR


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14581331 - 06/08/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
At any rate, economists are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it prevented a total collapse of the economy at the time



Oh yes.  I will definitely agree with this.  THe bailout was certainly necessary. 


Doesn't make it good at what it was supposed to be good at :shrug:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Obama's Auto Industry Success [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14581407 - 06/08/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Seuss said:

Yep... the CBO estimates that it cost $228,055 per job saved/created by the stimulus package.




The stimulus wasn't just about jobs.  It was about the bridges, roads, water plants, etc., that we'll be driving on, across, or otherwise using for decades.  The salaries paid were only a fraction of that.  That price-per-job figure would also be a lot lower if many State governors had used it for its intended purpose instead of using it to balance their own state books, thereby not creating the infrastructure improvements and jobs it was intended to.  At any rate, economists are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it prevented a total collapse of the economy at the time, while right-wing politicians are nearly unanimous in their assessment that it was a total waste. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as usual.

It was a mistake to trust the State Governors to do the right thing with that chunk of our change with no strings attached.  Some of them did, some didn't.
RR



Economists are most definitely not in agreement about that, it is no surprise that state governments embezzled the money, and even the idiot Obama admitted that there are no shovel ready infrastructure jobs.  What happened to sheriff Joe?  he was supposed to ride herd on how the money was used.

What that massive debt incursion produced was a disastrous chilling effect on businesses who knew good and goddamn well that they were gonna be cornholed with the bill down the road.  It was an idiot plan by an idiot administration (I'm being charitable there, I really think they are evil not stupid).  And then there is the health care fiasco which was another job killing horror.


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