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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Flashmob]
    #14571619 - 06/06/11 09:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Obama is hardly my darling. In fact, his war policies are some of my least favorite of his presidency.


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14572773 - 06/07/11 03:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

We should give Palin a break.  Why?  Start from the 0:51 mark, then listen to her statement at 2:35.






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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14575529 - 06/07/11 05:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

NPR

How Accurate Were Palin's Paul Revere Comments?
Listen to the Story

All Things Considered
[4 min 45 sec]

June 6, 2011

Sarah Palin caused a colonial-era commotion last week with comments she made in Boston about Paul Revere's famous ride. Melissa Block speaks with Robert Allison, a professor and historian at Suffolk University, about Palin's comments to see just how historically accurate they were.



MELISSA BLOCK, host:

Sarah Palin is defending her knowledge of American history. Last week, after Palin visited Old North Church and Paul Revere's house in Boston, a reporter asked her what she had seen and what she'd take away from her visit.

Ms. SARAH PALIN (Former Governor, Alaska): We saw where Paul Revere hung out as a teenager, which was something new to learn. And, you know, he who warned the British that they weren't going to be taking away our arms by ringing those bells and making sure, as he is riding his horse through town, to send those warning shots and bells, that we were going to be secure and we were going to be free.

BLOCK: Well, after that generated howls of derision for historical inaccuracy, Palin amplified on "Fox News Sunday." Here's part of what she said.

(Soundbite of TV show, "Fox News Sunday")

Ms. PALIN: Part of Paul Revere's ride - and it wasn't just one ride - he was a courier, he was a messenger. Part of his ride was to warn the British that we're already there, that, hey, you're not going to succeed. You're not going to take American arms. You are not going to beat our own well-armed persons, individual, private militia that we have. He did warn the British.

BLOCK: We are going to fact-check Palin's Paul Revere history now with Robert Allison. He's chair of the history department at Suffolk University in Boston.

Professor Allison, welcome to the program.

Professor ROBERT ALLISON (Chairman, History Department, Suffolk University): Thanks, Melissa.

BLOCK: And let's review Paul Revere's midnight ride, April 18, 1775. He's going to Lexington, Massachusetts. And according to Sarah Palin, he's riding his horse through town sending warning shots and ringing those bells. True?

Prof. ALLISON: Well, he's not firing warning shots. He is telling people so that they can ring bells to alert others. What he's doing is going from house to house, knocking on doors of members of the Committees of Safety saying the regulars are out. That is, he knew that General Gage was sending troops out to Lexington and Concord, really Concord, to seize the weapons being stockpiled there, but also perhaps to arrest John Hancock and Samuel Adams, leaders of the Continental Congress, who were staying in the town of Lexington.

Remember, Gage was planning - this is a secret operation, that's why he's moving at night. He gets over to Cambridge, the troops start marching from Cambridge, and church bells are ringing throughout the countryside.

BLOCK: So Paul Revere was ringing those bells? He was a silversmith, right?

Prof. ALLISON: Well, he was - he also was a bell ringer. That is, he rang the bells at Old North Church as a boy. But he personally is not getting off his horse and going to ring bells. He's telling other people - and this is their system before Facebook, before Twitter, before NPR, this was the way you get a message out is by having people ring church bells and everyone knows there is an emergency.

And by this time, of course, the various town Committees of Safety, militia knew what the signals were, so they knew something was afoot. So this is no longer a secret operation for the British.

Revere isn't trying to alert the British, but he is trying to warn them. And in April of 1775, no one was talking about independence. We're still part of the British Empire. We're trying to save it. So this is a warning to the British Empire what will happen if you provoke Americans.

BLOCK: And Sarah Palin also was saying there that Paul Revere's message to the British in his warning was: you're not going to take American arms. You know, basically a Second Amendment argument, even though the Second Amendment didn't exist then.

Prof. ALLISON: Yeah. She was making a Second Amendment case. But, in fact, the British were going out to Concord to seize colonists' arms, the weapons that the Massachusetts Provincial Congress was stockpiling there.

So, yeah, she is right in that. I mean, and she may be pushing it too far to say this is a Second Amendment case. Of course, neither the Second Amendment nor the Constitution was in anyone's mind at the time. But the British objective was to get the arms that were stockpiled in Concord.

BLOCK: So you think basically, on the whole, Sarah Palin got her history right.

Prof. ALLISON: Well, yeah, she did. And remember, she is a politician. She's not an historian. And God help us when historians start acting like politicians, and I suppose when politicians start writing history.

BLOCK: Are there other historians, Professor, whom you've talked with who say you're being entirely too charitable towards Sarah Palin here, and she really did misread American...

Prof. ALLISON: I haven't talked to many - well, I don't know. I mean, I haven't talked to too many historians today. And, you know, Sarah Palin is a lightning rod. I just was thinking about how many times, you know, I've spoken about Paul Revere. I've organized events about the American Revolution. No one ever pays any attention. Suddenly, Sarah Palin comes to town, makes an off-the-cuff remark about what she learned, and suddenly, you're calling me to find out what I think about Paul Revere and the American Revolution.

It's a great honor to talk to you, Melissa.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Prof. ALLISON: I wish it didn't take Sarah Palin coming to town to bring us together.

BLOCK: Well, we'll have to do this again sometime.

Prof. ALLISON: I hope so.

BLOCK: Professor Allison, thanks so much.

Prof. ALLISON: Thanks. Take care.

BLOCK: Professor Robert Allison is chair of the history department at Suffolk University in Boston.




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So... here's what I want to know. All of you that posted in this thread mocking her for her comments on this subject...

cat got your tongues?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14575594 - 06/07/11 05:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
We should give Palin a break.  Why?  Start from the 0:51 mark, then listen to her statement at 2:35.









"What have you seen today and what have you taken away?"  That was the question she was asked.

She was right.  Right in the original quote and right in her explanation.  The MSM are cunts and so are some of the nutlogs jumping on this.  You know what I learned about Revere's ride from this?  That he was captured at one point (didn't know that) that he told them the colonists were ready for them (didn't know that), that church bells were set up as a signal system (didn't know that) and that the MSM are feckless ignorant cunts with a huge hardon for Sarah, as are many of the posters here (did know that).


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14575606 - 06/07/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You do realize that Sarah Palin is a payed member of the main stream media right?


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14575720 - 06/07/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
You do realize that Sarah Palin is a payed member of the main stream media right?




Does that have some affect to whether she was right or not?

Or that those here who gleefully proclaimed her an idiot, know less than Sarah Palin on this subject?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming any special knowledge as to the possibility she only read about Revere 5 minutes before her interview, although I suspect she already knew. She's not as ignorant as some here suggest.

Nope. I'm just loving the silence from those who didn't take the time to look into it before spouting off.

It's delicious!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14575744 - 06/07/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
You do realize that Sarah Palin is a payed member of the main stream media right?




:rofl2:


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14575869 - 06/07/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

She fumbled at delivering a right-wing distortion of history.

Compare:

(1) Paul Revere warned the colonists that the British were coming.

(2) Paul Revere warned the British not to take away our arms.

There's a real difference in emphasis here.  You're free to believe the talking points, but you won't convince sane people that four is five, no matter how much you snicker while you make the effort.  Number one is history.  Number two is demagoguery.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14575980 - 06/07/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It isn't talking points.  There was never any talking point opportunity.  Somebody asked her a question in an informal session.  It wasn't a press conference.  Retarded assholes made an issue out of her answer and attempted, yet again, to paint her as an idiot.  She was right on the facts and anybody who even tried to make this an issue exposed themselves as feckless nitwits who were bereft of knowledge.  She was right, and they were wrong.  Something you and the press should probably have gotten used to by now.

Just out of curiosity, I asked a question of you earlier.  Which one of those retarded shithead sites did you get this from?  KOS?  MediaMatters?


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14576075 - 06/07/11 07:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

But she was wrong on the facts. Paul Revere did not warn the British that Americans were well armed and ready. He pulled the ol' "there's 500 militia men right behind me" bluff when he got captured. Read my lips. Sarah Palin is an idiot.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14576186 - 06/07/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
But she was wrong on the facts. Paul Revere did not warn the British that Americans were well armed and ready. He pulled the ol' "there's 500 militia men right behind me" bluff when he got captured. Read my lips. Sarah Palin is an idiot.




If I tell you that there are a bunch of guys around the corner who are going to kick your ass would you call that a "warning"?  Would it not be a warning even if it was a bluff?  And it wasn't really a bluff, quite a few had already been alerted and were being alerted by others as he spoke?

Keep digging dirtynose.  Even RR has crapped out.  You might consider that as well.  You been pWned, once again, by your own bigotry and hatred.


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14576367 - 06/07/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Someone's bigoted and hateful?  Who?

Ha!


Oh well, I'll answer your fair and kind question, "Which one of those retarded shithead sites did you get this from?" Answer: Raw Story.  Which I fully realize is as biased a source as any "retarded shithead" site on the Left or Right, such as Drudge and Big Government.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14576722 - 06/07/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Compare:

(1) Paul Revere warned the colonists that the British were coming.

(2) Paul Revere warned the British not to take away our arms.




As I have already pointed out, Palin knew what you didn't: Revere did both those things the same night. I tried to make it even easier for you to grasp by using the same term you did in regard to the colonists: "alerted". Once again, he alerted his side that the enemy were coming, then (when captured) warned the enemy that attempting to disarm the colonists would go disastrously for them, since he had alerted the colonists and they were prepared by now, as evidenced by the bells ringing in the middle of the night and the shots going off. Did he exaggerate the number of armed militia waiting to repel the Regulars? Sure. So what?

Look, this isn't rocket science here. Why are you having such an astonishingly difficult time grasping this very simple chain of events?




Phred


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Phred]
    #14576909 - 06/07/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, my understanding of Palin's boneheaded answer to a simple open-ended question has increased with the discussion, here.  So, I give you all some credit, and I give Palin some, too, the very little she deserves, and I am being charitable.


--------------------

Edited by Not Quite Social (06/07/11 09:45 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14577091 - 06/07/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"What have you seen today and what have you taken away?"  That was the question she was asked.



Palin - "In a shout out 'gotcha' type of question that was asked of me I answered candidly." (2:35 of the video)  :rofl:


Here's another "gotcha question":



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14578161 - 06/08/11 03:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
She fumbled at delivering a right-wing distortion of history.

Compare:

(1) Paul Revere warned the colonists that the British were coming.

(2) Paul Revere warned the British not to take away our arms.

There's a real difference in emphasis here.  You're free to believe the talking points, but you won't convince sane people that four is five, no matter how much you snicker while you make the effort.  Number one is history.  Number two is demagoguery.




Except clearly historians disagree with your truth.

Keep those eyes shut.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14578162 - 06/08/11 03:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
But she was wrong on the facts. Paul Revere did not warn the British that Americans were well armed and ready. He pulled the ol' "there's 500 militia men right behind me" bluff when he got captured. Read my lips. Sarah Palin is an idiot.




Except clearly historians disagree with your truth.

Keep those eyes shut.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14578167 - 06/08/11 03:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
Actually, my understanding of Palin's boneheaded answer to a simple open-ended question has increased with the discussion, here.  So, I give you all some credit, and I give Palin some, too, the very little she deserves, and I am being charitable.




Except it wasn't boneheaded. It was correct.

Your charity, while cute as a button, is crap.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Phred]
    #14578248 - 06/08/11 04:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> Why are you having such an astonishingly difficult time grasping this very simple chain of events?

Because that would mean Palin was right and the Palin haters were wrong.  There is no room in the Palin Hater Fantasy World for such a concept to exist.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Paul Revere [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #14578271 - 06/08/11 04:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
She fumbled at delivering a right-wing distortion of history.

Compare:

(1) Paul Revere warned the colonists that the British were coming.

(2) Paul Revere warned the British not to take away our arms.

There's a real difference in emphasis here.  You're free to believe the talking points, but you won't convince sane people that four is five, no matter how much you snicker while you make the effort.  Number one is history.  Number two is demagoguery.





You have not made an argument.  You have simply stated a conclusion. 

I'm not sure what the point of posts like these are, except to provoke a uh huh, nuh uh, uh huh, nuh uh back-and-forth




Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
But she was wrong on the facts. Paul Revere did not warn the British that Americans were well armed and ready. He pulled the ol' "there's 500 militia men right behind me" bluff when he got captured. Read my lips. Sarah Palin is an idiot.





Yes he did.  They knew they were well armed because that was part of their mission: to disarm them.  The readying of the population also alerted the British, and it was clear that the Americans were ready because the population was awake, the militias were organized/ing, and messengers and bells were communicating the story.  I suppose you could take issue with how much of that Reveere himself was responsible for, but the issue is generally dealt with through the actions of the entire groups of similar mesengeers, as Reveere wasn't particularly noteworthy compared to the others in many respects.  As you state, he also told the British this directly.

As for Sarah Palin being an idiot, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. 


Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
Actually, my understanding of Palin's boneheaded answer to a simple open-ended question has increased with the discussion, here.  So, I give you all some credit, and I give Palin some, too, the very little she deserves, and I am being charitable.





You have no established that she deserves 'very little credit', while you have established that your own knowledge was apparently deficient, as others have suggested from the start.  It seems a reasonable conjecture that much of this bruhaha is just people who are ignorant like you and 'know' things that are false.


Honestly, I didn't think the whole arms seizure thing was such a secret or a minor part of the British mission.  Its not like the British thought arresting a few leaders was going to have a substantial impact on the resistance capability of the colonists.  The whole point was to try and dismantle their ability to resist British authority and thus bring the colonies under their effective control again.  Both measures of law, economics, and forceful seizure of persons and material were being used at this time.  This was part of the motivation for the revolution in the first place- the acts which caused the moderate subjects to begin to support the radicals.  They didn't agree with the radicals at first, but after the British became increasingly indescriminate in their methods, and the loyal or neutral colonists began to suffer or be outraged at the suffering of their neighbors, the disloyal feelings of the few started to gain mainstream support.  It was only then that the revolution could have even occured as a semi-organized event rather than a bunch of guerilla actions by the radical groups.

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