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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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100 billion times more energy than we need!
    #14569323 - 06/06/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

A proposed solar wind harvesting orbiting collector could provide billions of times our current energy usage. I am not providing a link because I am not wishing to discuss the feasibility, theory or engineering beghind such a proposal. What I want to discuss is the contention that if such a marvel was to be built and implemented, that we would quickly find a way to utilize ALL of the energy and would still clamor for more.


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InvisibleAndyRawrs
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Loc: North Carolina
Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14569505 - 06/06/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes?  It's like a Dyson sphere or swarm.  In fact, it is a Dyson sphere or swarm, but .000000001% as efficient.  Solar wind, dude?  Why not just use the radiation?  :smile:  The engineering, though, and raw material needed, and feasibility and theory....that is relevant to your argument.  I get sick of hypotheticalss sometimes but I'll humor you on this one. 

Humans are power hungry.  If our energy and resource needs are met (which happened at the industrial revolution with Iron&coal/steel & petrol) we've proven that we'll expand without a second thought of consequences...at least until it comes back and bites us in the ass.  Like using up all the Gibbs Free Energy for the intelligence that is sure (I hope) to succeed us!  LOLOL    Then I think we'll either actually evolve socially into a "caring" species, or just fuck the earth and spend the rest of our resources on colonizing and raping other planets. Maybe, this is all IMO. 

OHH do you mean just orbiting, like around the Earth?  In that case...whatevs.  They could be useful in maintaining the ionosphere r something, but otherwise you'd have to use alot of energy to stay in orbit against the solar wind....hmmm....because as windmills work on earth they're fixed relative to a plane.  But in orbit, idk if just gravity would provide enough resistance to capture kinetic energy from solar wind.  BTW a Dyson sphere would yield upwards of a floppity jillion times the amount of energy as an orbital solar energy converter.

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InvisibleAndyRawrs
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: AndyRawrs]
    #14569526 - 06/06/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

BTW, need is driven by availability.  I guarantee you if we have access to it, the carrying capacity of 100 billion times our energy need will be matched by our species unless some other factor pushes us back down.  Im assuming you're a Reptar too though....

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: AndyRawrs]
    #14570507 - 06/06/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What would you do with such vast amounts of juice?


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OfflineWScott
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570546 - 06/06/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570566 - 06/06/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
What I want to discuss is the contention that if such a marvel was to be built and implemented, that we would quickly find a way to utilize ALL of the energy and would still clamor for more.




Yea, I think most would agree with this.  We figure out how to get a new more abundant source of energy, we use it to greatly increase our standard of living - find a new equilibrium and then develop yet another source of energy.  Since this has happened already so many times in history, its reasonable to assume it would happen again.  We are already at the point where most of our energy and economy is devoted to luxury, and any new power source would increase our luxury (and consequently our notions of necessity).

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Invisible1983
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Registered: 04/14/11
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: AndyRawrs]
    #14570615 - 06/06/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

We could make giant Dyson vacuum cleaners.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: 1983]
    #14570667 - 06/06/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

A millenia after we build the Dyson Sphere, future generations would not believe there was an entire universe vast beyond comprehension outside of the sphere and new religions would be born - and skeptics would make fun of the members.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570717 - 06/06/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Great topic. Considering you are saying in the hypothetical scenario we would indeed have 100 billion times more energy it seems impossible that we would run out of energy. I have no scientific or technological knowledge so the speculation I can offer on how or what we would/could use to exhaust these energy supplies would be very limited indeed.

You have much more know how on that and I'd love to hear where you think we could expend such a vast amount of energy. Also despite you saying you didn't want to include it as a main topic, it would be interesting to hear some brief speculation from you on whether you think it is feasable.

Another interesting question (especially now it seems it is a possibility) is the effect having unlimited energy would have on society, infrastructure, politics and the rich poor divide across the world. Although it's a complex subject and we're probably not gonna get many answers on it. I think I'll start a thread on it, don't get too offended on the topic steal. :tongue::wink:


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Invisible1983
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570727 - 06/06/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
... and skeptics would make fun of the members.




I would think they would have grown up by then.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14570752 - 06/06/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Great topic. Considering you are saying in the hypothetical scenario we would indeed have 100 billion times more energy it seems impossible that we would run out of energy. I have no scientific or technological knowledge so the speculation I can offer on how or what we would/could use to exhaust these energy supplies would be very limited indeed.

You have much more know how on that and I'd love to hear where you think we could expend such a vast amount of energy. Also despite you saying you didn't want to include it as a main topic, it would be interesting to hear some brief speculation from you on whether you think it is feasable.

Another interesting question (especially now it seems it is a possibility) is the effect having unlimited energy would have on society, infrastructure, politics and the rich poor divide across the world. Although it's a complex subject and we're probably not gonna get many answers on it. I think I'll start a thread on it, don't get too offended on the topic steal. :tongue:;)




Maybe our old folks will demand to be put into near light speed orbit around the sun to slow down their aging relative to the earth, in order to wait for a cure or treatment.  Just as health care went from being a luxury to a right, we will turn near-light speed stasis into a right.

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: DieCommie]
    #14570780 - 06/06/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Haha, who knows? Some rich people can be bastards with their money. That seems a little too insane even for a human.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570784 - 06/06/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"640 kilobytes of memory aught to be enough for anyone." -- attributed to Bill Gates


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14570790 - 06/06/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The proposal does not appear feasible as outlined, but much of the energy of the solar wind is deflected by the earth's magnetosphere and contains much more energy than that carried by photons alone. The technology is all currently available, but the engineering is not. I could see the harvesting of solar wind as feasible for space stations or planets with weak magnetospheres, i.e. the moon or Mars; satellite to earth transmission not so much. FYO, the authors of the proposal were called on their outrageous number (100 billion X) and have since recanted.

The societal changes would be so dramatic as to be almost totally unpredictable. That being said, physical labor would be further minimized and work would become almost optional. We would become one step closer to becoming demi-gods.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570800 - 06/06/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

That being said, physical labor would be further minimized and work would become almost optional.




I think it is that way in my city right now.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: DieCommie]
    #14570827 - 06/06/11 06:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Food replicators would be widely available and farming would become merely a hobby.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570846 - 06/06/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The proposal does not appear feasible as outlined, but much of the energy of the solar wind is deflected by the earth's magnetosphere and contains much more energy than that carried by photons alone. The technology is all currently available, but the engineering is not. I could see the harvesting of solar wind as feasible for space stations or planets with weak magnetospheres, i.e. the moon or Mars; satellite to earth transmission not so much. FYO, the authors of the proposal were called on their outrageous number (100 billion X) and have since recanted.




Bah! Still the fact that they could make such a hitherto outlandish proposal at all shows that times change and although it may well be impossible right now, things could happen in the future.

My guess would be the outrageous number is fair enough, if it's going to happen they're going to want financial backing. And they sure as hell ain't gonna get it from the current energy suppliers. A little marketing never hurts when such a potentially beneficial scheme might have some truth to it.

Science is truly amazing and it's a shame that the same inventions that have brought us a great deal of good have also been completely misused by the idiots in charge (that includes general populace in scenarios where they support the very same leaders).

Quote:

The societal changes would be so dramatic as to be almost totally unpredictable. That being said, physical labor would be further minimized and work would become almost optional. We would become one step closer to becoming demi-gods.




Sounds fantastic to me; I hope I'm still here to see it all change. Now where's the emoticon for a sex on the beach cocktail? :crankey:


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14570870 - 06/06/11 06:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, everyone would have access to a blender and ice - lots of ice. There would be mandatory world-wide marguerita/daquiri breaks every day with annoying techno music playing from ubiquitous and overly-loud speakers.

Also cosmetic surgery would be mandated. Everyone would be beautiful and near-perfect. Lipo and implants for all!


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14570919 - 06/06/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

There would be mandatory world-wide marguerita/daquiri breaks every day with annoying techno music playing from ubiquitous and overly-loud speakers.




Clearly you're too old to have been fucked up at a real rave. Or maybe you're just a party pooper. Keep on shaking yee fists at this generation and pretend yours was better is the way it's done and by the way, woodstock looked like a shit party. :satansmoking: Either way. Unlimited energy for ridiculously huge speaker stacks is probably one of the best things that could come out of it. Just bring ear plugs and feel that bass. :tongue: It's scientifically proven the vibrations cause euphoria, or so I'm told. :bigblunt:


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleAndyRawrs
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Loc: North Carolina
Re: 100 billion times more energy than we need! [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14571261 - 06/06/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Lol who needs lipo & plastic when you have gene therapy and selection?

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