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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Diploid]
    #14545475 - 06/01/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Bet she's ugly.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Diploid]
    #14545493 - 06/01/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

One anecdote = questionable premise.
A zillion anecdotes = data.

:yesnod:


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OfflineJordan Black
Male

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Diploid]
    #14569324 - 06/06/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So do you doubt that NDE's occur at all Diploid?

You consider them purely fictional, like the tooth fairy?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
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Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Jordan Black]
    #14569354 - 06/06/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

He doubts the conclusions presented by believers, not the experience itself. This is the same for UFOs, ghosts, ESP, etc.

And yes, I can safely speak for Diploid in this instance.


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OfflineJordan Black
Male

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14569387 - 06/06/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

But all I was doing was saying that the characteristics of an NDE which I mentioned are typical of those experiences as reported.

So if diploid does not doubt that the experiences happen, what was the relevance of his analogy to the tooth fairy and other imaginary things?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Jordan Black]
    #14569407 - 06/06/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

That stories are poor indicators evidence of truth. Misinterpretation of experience abounds everywhere.


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OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
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Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14569418 - 06/06/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Do a quick Google search and you'll find the reports of millions of people who've dreamed that they can fly.

Are their minds magically transported to realms where they can fly when they fall asleep?


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OfflineJordan Black
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Registered: 05/09/11
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Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14569426 - 06/06/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

But if the thing that we are exploring is a subjective experience like a dream, a drug trip or a near death experience, how can we meaningfully explore that if we disallow stories?

Thats why we have trip reports on the shroomery. If you want to know what a certain experience might be like, you have to ask the people who have had that experience.

Is that not so?

You can do all the brain scans and blood tests you want, but if you want to have some idea what mushroom trips are like, you have to either have one yourself or ask the people who have.

In the case of UFO's its a bit different, you can believe a person saw something but not believe that it was a UFO.

But with a dream or an NDE, nothing is being claimed about the physical world that can be disproved, all that is being said is "this experience happened to me and it was like this".

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Jordan Black]
    #14569463 - 06/06/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

all that is being said is "this experience happened to me and it was like this".




Never read an NDE book or visited an NDE website where that was ALL that was said. There is ALWAYS mention of an afterlife and spirituality and God and such.

Here is the deal: the experience is impossible to separate from the person's interpretation. Let's shift gears for a moment to the 1914(?) Fatima sightings wherein some 10,000 people shared an OBJECTIVE experience - some unusual aerial phenomenon. Thousands of those people swore that they saw the Virgin Mary. Now, how can atmosphereic light play look like a long-dead woman and look like her so much that they could determine the name?

Back to NDE's, a Christian NEVER has an experience of meeeting Mohammed and a Hindu never has an experience of meeting Jesus in the white light.


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OfflineJordan Black
Male

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14569487 - 06/06/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well, seems like We have gone off my initial topic, which is fine.

But my idea is this: that a time dilation effect during a near death experience could hypothetically result in the generation of a subjectively real life-after-life, a second kind of existence which follows after our normal day to day life and, due to the stretching of perceptual time, can actually be experienced as substantially long EVEN IF it only occurs during the last moments of brain activity.

I don't see the relevance of the tooth fairy or the Fatima sightings to that thesis.

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Invisiblebaby9
Sexologist
Female

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 46
Re: Near Death Experiences, subjective immortality and the essential goodness of life [Re: Jordan Black]
    #14569877 - 06/06/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

All I know is that I hope that I have an NDE when I die!

And I think that yeah, if you can trip out that you are alive for a few days and really you are not, that is good enough for me, what the fuck do I care at that point if it is "really" happening? It would still be something to do better than nothing at all.

Like, if someone could make me dream forever instead of dying, by stretching my time brain I would say Hell Yes.

But it is all conjecture because we don't know if time dilation really happens although IF DMT is responsible for NDE than yeah it might cuz I have heard people say there DMT trip was super long but it was only minuites so same deal with NDE I guess.

Not exactly the after-life I would hope for but better than nothing ??


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:heartpump:

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