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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

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I finally found god 1
#14569132 - 06/06/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Definition: The way I see it the concept of god is a malignant sociocultural relic that has been spawned by fear at some point in human history. The concept itself acts a bit like a symbiont: essentially it endows its host with a false sense of security whereas the host provides the platform for its existence i.e. the brain. However, in some cases it is possible that the symbiont morphs into a virus which is manifested in the highly irrational behaviour of the host.
Point of Origin: It originates at the 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor family. The concept is generated somewhere along the serotoninergic neural circuitry and often starts to exhibit a dominating behaviour over other patterns of neural activity. I base this idea on the fact that there is a myriad of religious experience reports after the consumption of 5-HT agonistic drugs such as DMT, LSD, psilocybin, various psychedelic phenethylamines etc. Also the concept is perceived as if it is indefinite in terms of time and at least IME 5-HT mimetic drugs induce a similar parallel in the perception of time. By sustaining the concept the host (the believer) receives false sense of security with regard to his future (the idea of life after death etc.)
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



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Very interesting read, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts mellow; much to think about on that one!
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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Dave Bowman
Albert Hoffmans Apprentice




Registered: 08/30/07
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I've never thought about these concepts in this manner but it is certainly intriguing and I do not disagree with your ideas.
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Kickle
Wanderer


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There's other theories for it's connection to the brain. Unfortunately there is very little concrete information regarding the topic. Individuals with tumors in their temporal lobe are often very prone to seizures. These temporal seizures often result in feelings of oneness and ultimate understanding. This led to the theory of the "god spot" in the brain. But the man who originally discovered this trend did not himself believe this to be the case. He just noted the behavioral tendencies and didn't take it any further. That's part of what makes a good scientist IMO, not exaggerating claims farther than what is actually present.
People have all sorts of God experiences and I think it's a far cry to believe any particular aspect can be held accountable. I do agree that what you are describing is something that exists, but I'd be hard pressed to say it is equivalent to "finding god" except in the sense of using media tactics of sensationalism.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

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Re: I finally found god [Re: Kickle]
#14569260 - 06/06/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
to say it is equivalent to "finding god" except in the sense of using media tactics of sensationalism.
Exactly so that people will click on this thread. I don't mean it literally, more of a catchy thread title.
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Kickle
Wanderer


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What do you make of the idea that psychedelics actually quiet brain activity rather than activate it? There is a little research (not unsurprisingly given the illegal status of the drugs) that suggests this may be the case.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

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Re: I finally found god [Re: Kickle]
#14569301 - 06/06/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think I remember someone posting about psilocybin and the above mentioned effects. It would take a lot more than that to give a well-reasoned hypothesis. What exactly does it silence? Brain function in general, specific areas, input processing capability?
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Good response.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
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Loc: The Astral Realm
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What of the people who acquire the ability to have such experience without the use of psychedelics at all?
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

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Re: I finally found god [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14569436 - 06/06/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Their serotoninergic system is running on overdrive I suspect that there might be a genetic component that influences the probability of you being open to the idea of god (the conventional concept). After all if its on a physical basis i.e. the way the cells are connected then it is highly probable that there might be a number of genomic polymorphisms that make you prone to believe in god.
So the people who dont use psychedelics and believe in god would most likely have the genetics and/or the environment that shapes their beliefs.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

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We are conscious fragments of the universe, slowly waking up to the fact that we are all hopelessly full of shit.
A bio-computer hacked together by chance and time needs a bag of tricks to make sure that a globule of semen will someday work its way into a vaginal cavity. The idea of God keeps people on their feet so that they might walk into each other and fuck. If orgasm and ecstasy and warmth did not exist, we would not bother to live, so the brain supplies them in the same manner that a horse trainer supplies a carrot. Day by day we fool ourselves into expending the energy to live, chasing whatever sense pleasures our nervous systems will allow, be they simple and personal, or complex and socially created. There is no difference between a saint singing the praises of God, and a convict rubbing his own dick. There is no God, there is no purpose, and all our joys and miseries are both equally illusory. Ephemeral electrical effects in some DNA transport meat.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: I finally found god [Re: laserpig]
#14569845 - 06/06/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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if you found the god experience in a physical cell in the brain the experience is still of existing non-physically
"do not confuse the pointing finger with the moon"
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



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Re: I finally found god [Re: laserpig]
#14569856 - 06/06/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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^^^
Shit I hope not, definitely a possibility though that's for sure. In my opinion there are an infinite amount of possibilities of what might be, until the time comes a hypothesis is all we have to work on. I do believe the idea of god has been greatly skewed by man over time just trying to make sense of something that cannot be fully understood it known.
I enjoy reading all these thoughts they sure so make me think of all the probabilities that may truly be around the corner.
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

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Re: I finally found god [Re: don_vedo]
#14569931 - 06/06/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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All I believe is that we are way, way too stupid to trust our beliefs. And I could well be wrong about that, too.
To even ask the question of whether God exists already presumes that we know way more than we do about what the fuck the universe is or what the possibilities are for how it works. I do not assume God exists. I do not assume God does not exist. I assume that I as an animal am too stupid to tell what those questions even mean.
The Chronic: whatever carrot works for you, man. I ain't judging.
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: I finally found god [Re: laserpig]
#14570006 - 06/06/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think a big problem with these conversations is everyone has their own definition of "God". I think Chronic and I would both agree that God is a feeling of inner peace which connects all living things - amongst perhaps other things. When people try and put the idea of God in a test tube and say "it's just chemicals" in your brain or w/e, it doesn't make much sense to me. Have you ever been on a psychedelic? What do chemicals in the brain tell us of the actual experience we humans are having? It's fucking amazing if you stop to reflect once in a while.
In short, God means different things for different people. To me it means source and I think ultimately something beyond brain chemistry - although being an embodied human means you can't dismiss brain chemistry.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: I finally found god [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14570109 - 06/06/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cosmonought said: Have you ever been on a psychedelic? What do chemicals in the brain tell us of the actual experience we humans are having?
--------------------
Edited by Chronic7 (06/07/11 12:58 PM)
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dustinthewind13
Fool



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Re: I finally found god [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14570137 - 06/06/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: I think a big problem with these conversations is everyone has their own definition of "God". I think Chronic and I would both agree that God is a feeling of inner peace which connects all living things - amongst perhaps other things. When people try and put the idea of God in a test tube and say "it's just chemicals" in your brain or w/e, it doesn't make much sense to me. Have you ever been on a psychedelic? What do chemicals in the brain tell us of the actual experience we humans are having? It's fucking amazing if you stop to reflect once in a while.
In short, God means different things for different people. To me it means source and I think ultimately something beyond brain chemistry - although being an embodied human means you can't dismiss brain chemistry.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
mellowparty said: Definition: The way I see it the concept of god is a malignant sociocultural relic that has been spawned by fear at some point in human history. The concept itself acts a bit like a symbiont: essentially it endows its host with a false sense of security whereas the host provides the platform for its existence i.e. the brain. However, in some cases it is possible that the symbiont morphs into a virus which is manifested in the highly irrational behaviour of the host.
Point of Origin: It originates at the 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor family. The concept is generated somewhere along the serotoninergic neural circuitry and often starts to exhibit a dominating behaviour over other patterns of neural activity. I base this idea on the fact that there is a myriad of religious experience reports after the consumption of 5-HT agonistic drugs such as DMT, LSD, psilocybin, various psychedelic phenethylamines etc. Also the concept is perceived as if it is indefinite in terms of time and at least IME 5-HT mimetic drugs induce a similar parallel in the perception of time. By sustaining the concept the host (the believer) receives false sense of security with regard to his future (the idea of life after death etc.)
interesting indeed.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kinko
Stranger



Registered: 01/07/11
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Quote:
mellowparty said: Definition: The way I see it the concept of god is a malignant sociocultural relic that has been spawned by fear at some point in human history. The concept itself acts a bit like a symbiont: essentially it endows its host with a false sense of security whereas the host provides the platform for its existence i.e. the brain. However, in some cases it is possible that the symbiont morphs into a virus which is manifested in the highly irrational behaviour of the host.
Point of Origin: It originates at the 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor family. The concept is generated somewhere along the serotoninergic neural circuitry and often starts to exhibit a dominating behaviour over other patterns of neural activity. I base this idea on the fact that there is a myriad of religious experience reports after the consumption of 5-HT agonistic drugs such as DMT, LSD, psilocybin, various psychedelic phenethylamines etc. Also the concept is perceived as if it is indefinite in terms of time and at least IME 5-HT mimetic drugs induce a similar parallel in the perception of time. By sustaining the concept the host (the believer) receives false sense of security with regard to his future (the idea of life after death etc.)
all of the drugs you have mentioned did not exist during the middle ages , your point is invalid.
also 99% of religion folks oppose drug use/abuse.
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: I finally found god [Re: Kinko]
#14571815 - 06/06/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kinko said: also 99% of religion folks oppose drug use/abuse.
I don't think so.
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



Registered: 05/12/11
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Re: I finally found god [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14572079 - 06/06/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: I don't think so.
I agree, from what I have read and studied drug use/abuse has only been opposed recently; (within the past hundreds of years) possibly to keep people from gnosis, or attainment of their own truths. I actually wonder how many religions were actually started or built from the use of psychedelics and other natural plants. 
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

Registered: 05/17/09
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Re: I finally found god [Re: Kinko]
#14572837 - 06/07/11 03:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kinko said:
Quote:
mellowparty said: Definition: The way I see it the concept of god is a malignant sociocultural relic that has been spawned by fear at some point in human history. The concept itself acts a bit like a symbiont: essentially it endows its host with a false sense of security whereas the host provides the platform for its existence i.e. the brain. However, in some cases it is possible that the symbiont morphs into a virus which is manifested in the highly irrational behaviour of the host.
Point of Origin: It originates at the 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor family. The concept is generated somewhere along the serotoninergic neural circuitry and often starts to exhibit a dominating behaviour over other patterns of neural activity. I base this idea on the fact that there is a myriad of religious experience reports after the consumption of 5-HT agonistic drugs such as DMT, LSD, psilocybin, various psychedelic phenethylamines etc. Also the concept is perceived as if it is indefinite in terms of time and at least IME 5-HT mimetic drugs induce a similar parallel in the perception of time. By sustaining the concept the host (the believer) receives false sense of security with regard to his future (the idea of life after death etc.)
all of the drugs you have mentioned did not exist during the middle ages , your point is invalid.
also 99% of religion folks oppose drug use/abuse.
Psilocybin didn't exist during the middle ages In fact there are reports of religion folks tripping on mushrooms and then doing religious deeds inspired by the shrooms. For example st. Ivan Rilski might have been tripping on P. semilanceata and dealing with such activities.
Did I said that you need to use 5-hydroxytryptamine mimetics to experience god? No! I just stated that the consumption of the above mentioned compounds may induce a religious experience. I haven't had a religious experience but I become more open to the idea while I trip. I dont think that the entities I see on high doses are gods. More likely the manifestations of a positive feedback regulatory loops in my brain.
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OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
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Psilocybe was present waaaaaaay before that. There are Egyption carvings of them, Maya, Aborigines of Australia, Africa, and other places. DMT was also present long before the middle ages. Dunno about LSD since it was made synthetically in a lab but with all the bizarre theories, I wouldn't be surprised if some extra terrestrials made it rain acid or something.
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

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Re: I finally found god [Re: OneU]
#14574420 - 06/07/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah really that was an epically dumb and uninformed response. "Mescaline shrooms and DMT appeared recently"
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
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Re: I finally found god [Re: Kinko]
#14574467 - 06/07/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kinko said:
Quote:
mellowparty said: Definition: The way I see it the concept of god is a malignant sociocultural relic that has been spawned by fear at some point in human history. The concept itself acts a bit like a symbiont: essentially it endows its host with a false sense of security whereas the host provides the platform for its existence i.e. the brain. However, in some cases it is possible that the symbiont morphs into a virus which is manifested in the highly irrational behaviour of the host.
Point of Origin: It originates at the 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor family. The concept is generated somewhere along the serotoninergic neural circuitry and often starts to exhibit a dominating behaviour over other patterns of neural activity. I base this idea on the fact that there is a myriad of religious experience reports after the consumption of 5-HT agonistic drugs such as DMT, LSD, psilocybin, various psychedelic phenethylamines etc. Also the concept is perceived as if it is indefinite in terms of time and at least IME 5-HT mimetic drugs induce a similar parallel in the perception of time. By sustaining the concept the host (the believer) receives false sense of security with regard to his future (the idea of life after death etc.)
all of the drugs you have mentioned did not exist during the middle ages , your point is invalid.
also 99% of religion folks oppose drug use/abuse.
In gnostic days christians were noted to drink a psychedelic wine. Since then alcoholic wine has been he "blood of Christ" There were fewer prohibitionists than non.
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

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Re: I finally found god [Re: Seanfu]
#14575472 - 06/07/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Psychedelic wine? That sounds pretty awesome. Any idea how they made it?
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



Registered: 05/12/11
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Re: I finally found god [Re: laserpig]
#14575843 - 06/07/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
laserpig said: Psychedelic wine? That sounds pretty awesome. Any idea how they made it?
That's what I was just thinking, shit I need to get my hands on that TEK! 
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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mellowparty
legitimate researcher

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Re: I finally found god [Re: don_vedo]
#14575874 - 06/07/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why not just soak some mushrooms in the wine? That sounds good actually. The alcohol will kill the pre-trip anxiety and you'll be prepared to indulge in utter psychedelia. It could be tough on the stomach though.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Quote:
mellowparty said: Definition: The way I see it the concept of god is a malignant sociocultural relic that has been spawned by fear at some point in human history. The concept itself acts a bit like a symbiont: essentially it endows its host with a false sense of security whereas the host provides the platform for its existence i.e. the brain. However, in some cases it is possible that the symbiont morphs into a virus which is manifested in the highly irrational behaviour of the host.
Point of Origin: It originates at the 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor family. The concept is generated somewhere along the serotoninergic neural circuitry and often starts to exhibit a dominating behaviour over other patterns of neural activity. I base this idea on the fact that there is a myriad of religious experience reports after the consumption of 5-HT agonistic drugs such as DMT, LSD, psilocybin, various psychedelic phenethylamines etc. Also the concept is perceived as if it is indefinite in terms of time and at least IME 5-HT mimetic drugs induce a similar parallel in the perception of time. By sustaining the concept the host (the believer) receives false sense of security with regard to his future (the idea of life after death etc.)
God is not a concept alone. God is a word (logos: Greek) which symbolizes Ultimate Reality, THAT (TAT: Sanskrit) which is Ultimately Real, transcends the spacio-temporal universe. Ultimate Reality cannot be reduced to energy, matter, or form (in descending order from its Point (Singularity) of Origin. Ultimate Reality is ontologically prior to existence, and existence is strictly derivative of Transcendental Reality. Ultimate Reality is not reducible to physical scrutiny because the Whole utterly transcends the sum of its parts. The Mystery on the other side of the Big Bang may be 'encountered' in consciousness, but since it is not space-time, it cannot be perceived, let alone quantified by the scientific method, which is merely a specialization of reason applied to phenomena of matter and energy. One cannot confuse "Ultimate Concerns" - the 'why?' with the 'how?' of science. Reason is a modification of consciousness. Pure Consciousness Events in which intimations of Ultimate reality may be encountered, are not bounded by the contours of reason or the restrictions of sense perception.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: I finally found god [Re: laserpig]
#14577265 - 06/07/11 10:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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:Quote:
laserpig said: We are conscious fragments of the universe, slowly waking up to the fact that we are all hopelessly full of shit.
A bio-computer hacked together by chance and time needs a bag of tricks to make sure that a globule of semen will someday work its way into a vaginal cavity. The idea of God keeps people on their feet so that they might walk into each other and fuck. If orgasm and ecstasy and warmth did not exist, we would not bother to live, so the brain supplies them in the same manner that a horse trainer supplies a carrot. Day by day we fool ourselves into expending the energy to live, chasing whatever sense pleasures our nervous systems will allow, be they simple and personal, or complex and socially created. There is no difference between a saint singing the praises of God, and a convict rubbing his own dick. There is no God, there is no purpose, and all our joys and miseries are both equally illusory. Ephemeral electrical effects in some DNA transport meat.
 
Great post.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: I finally found god [Re: deCypher]
#14577810 - 06/08/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Origin ultimately begs the question of causality, but to state what that ultimately is, seems impossible to prove with the evidence we have.
In relation to what anyone can examine with their own eyes, is a politically relevant theme that shows itself throughout most, if not all, religious texts.
Take the Hindu religion for example. The caste system and cycle of rebirth, is in the mainstream hindu religion that one is poor due to bad karma accumulated in a past life.
In the judeo-christian traditions, poor people, are given comfort by the idea that god prefers them over the wealthy.
There are many more examples, such as jesus saying that we should all pay our taxes to our government and through paul the apostle, who clearly states that a good christian is obedient to government and should hold government as appointed by god.
It makes much more sense to use religious beliefs, to control and subdue the larger poor class by their own minds, rather than by force.
In the past wealthy individuals always fought against rebellious poorer classes that were fed up with the inequality.
I think religion was simply a solution to this problem.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
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Re: I finally found god [Re: don_vedo]
#14578844 - 06/08/11 09:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
don_vedo said:
Quote:
laserpig said: Psychedelic wine? That sounds pretty awesome. Any idea how they made it?
That's what I was just thinking, shit I need to get my hands on that TEK! 
Lah'Kesh
i dont remember. Saw dat shit on the history channel.
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



Registered: 05/12/11
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Re: I finally found god [Re: Seanfu]
#14578894 - 06/08/11 09:41 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's alright, mellow had a good point: just soak some shrooms in some wine for awhile might not be such a bad idea!
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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