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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14560035 - 06/04/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

always check the gills and look for reddish stem sometimes with a slight white fibrils.


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #14561008 - 06/04/11 05:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I will probably end up eating the foes just to see what happens. I will make tea out of about 40-60 of them, that should do the trick. I doubt anything will happen to me but its better then just composting them.

I went to 10 parks with in the 2 days and found foes growing in every single one of them. It would be very fucking cool if foes were active in the valley.

thanks for the advice psylosymonreturns :thumbup:. if anyone has some cinctulus advise for me I would love to hear it. thanks again. :grin:


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May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14561042 - 06/04/11 05:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Nothing will happen. Enjoy your foes, mate. :smile:

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: elprawn]
    #14561067 - 06/04/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

its worth a shot. Aren't pan. foes active in Europe?


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May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14561073 - 06/04/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Nope.

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: elprawn]
    #14561109 - 06/04/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I thought there was some medicinal value to foes?


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561114 - 06/04/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Specifically?

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: elprawn]
    #14561123 - 06/04/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Can't remember but I read it on here some where. Let me see if I can find it......


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DON'T DO THIS>  :badshroom:      :notards:

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561137 - 06/04/11 05:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

" foes contain 5-htp (which helps replenish your serotonin levels if im correct) and serotonin in small amounts. These chemicals are very hard to synthesize and have great value to the pharmaceutical and medical communities. Ive wondered about the possible benefits of eating foes. (anti-depressant?) "


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561182 - 06/04/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

5-htp metabolises into serotonin, which is used to regulate the body. Eating serotonin doesn't replenish serotonin stocks in the body.

Neither of these chemicals affect how serotonin is used in the body, so unless your serotonin is depleted for some reason, shouldn't affect your wellbeing. If it is depleted, then eating 5-htp can help build it back up.

Bananas and other foods also contain 5-htp. I'm not sure it's a necessary dietary supplement, I think the body can maintain your serotonin levels without you eating 5-htp directly.

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: elprawn]
    #14561238 - 06/04/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well if you take E pills and other drug's like some of us do. That would drop your serotonin levels. I thought there was medicinal value to foes. So I guess you could say yes?


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561302 - 06/04/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure how quickly it would metabolise. You should drop some MDMA and then when you come down gorge yourself on foes. See if it normalises you any quicker.

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: elprawn]
    #14561342 - 06/04/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Does everyone have sand in there clit or what? Maybe it's just that time of the month? I mean really? OK your right and the smartest person ever.:bow2::bow2::bow2: Is your ego full yet? Because I'm about spent!


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561355 - 06/04/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Got a better way of testing your theory?

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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561391 - 06/04/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomboro said:
Does everyone have sand in there clit or what? Maybe it's just that time of the month? I mean really? OK your right and the smartest person ever.:bow2::bow2::bow2: Is your ego full yet? Because I'm about spent!




I'm in a great mood! :grin: The weather is starting to get sunny and warm, my garden is coming alive and I love my life. sometimes I think elprawn gets in a bad moods but hes a good dude ( I would totally vouch for him). I have noticed a lot of pessimism sometimes with this site but when its the fall mushroom season people are as happy as a pig in shit. :grin:


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14561420 - 06/04/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

No, I'm just saying, that the guy proposes that there is 5-htp in foes, which helps replenish serotonin, so could be useful after MDMA. So in effect he's suggesting eating a load after you comedown in order to shorten the effects of the comedown. Right?

And what I'm saying is, I'm not sure if it would metabolise quickly enough to make a significant difference.

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: elprawn]
    #14561486 - 06/04/11 07:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've been getting a hard time, don't mean to be a dick. When I say thought I'm not for sure it's a thought. When I guess it's a guess. Your a smart guy if you know all that stuff elprawn. Just trying to point out it may not be a total waste if he eats 50 foes.


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DON'T DO THIS>  :badshroom:      :notards:

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Offlineelprawn
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561497 - 06/04/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Eating 50 foes won't have any psychoactive effect, because unless the serotonin in your brain is depleted, it won't replenish it.

There may be an argument that says eating them alongside psilocybin containing mushrooms will help restore the serotonin balance in your brain once the trip ends.

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Offlinemushroomboro
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14561506 - 06/04/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't say that. It was a "quite". If you want to talk about it talk to him. Its just something he wrote that I read.


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: todays finds :-) [Re: mushroomboro]
    #14567830 - 06/06/11 02:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I thought this was interesting and just thought I would share.

Studies of Panaolina foenisecii.
The question of the suspected psychoactive properties of P. foenisecii, which allegedly caused hallucinations in three young children (described above), three teen-agers (Cooles 1980), and two elderly ladies (Allen 1988b), is confused by conflicting observations of mycologists and other investigators who have studied this species. There is some mycological disagreement regarding the natural production and presence of psilocybin and psilocin in Panaeolina foenisecii. Some have even referred to the suspected appearance of these alkaloids in this species as sporadic (Ola'h 1970).

Panaeolina foenisecii was first investigated for the presence of indole compounds by Tyler and Smith (1963). They detected no psilocybin or psilocin in the specimens they analyzed, but did report the occurrence of 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin), along with 5-hydroxytryptophan, and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. Two years later, Holden (1965) reported a suspected poisoning in a young English boy who became ill with tachycardia and mydriasis after allegedly consuming Panaeolina foenisecii). Specimens of the fungus collected in England and examined by Holden in 1969, contained no detectable psilocybin or psilocin (Mantle & Waight 1969).

Ola'h (1968a; 1968b; 1969; 1970) studied this species and described it as being 'latent psilocybian' (i.e., only producing these compounds sporadically). Robbers et al. (1969), reported detection of psilocybin in two collections of P. foenisecii, ?? one from Lafayette, Indiana, and another from Quebec, Canada. A third collection of the fungus, from Seattle, Washington, did not contain psilocybin.

In 1972 Fiusello and Ceruti?Scurti reported analysis of an Italian collection of P. foenisecii and found psilocybin present in one of two samples. Specimens collected during the spring of 1972 in Seattle, Washington tested negative (Enos 1972; Brolyn 1990). Later that same year, Miller (1972) commented on a case of poisoning that occurred earlier in 1966, in which this fungus was eaten by a four year old boy who "...was rendered comatose for a short time." Two years later, Southcott (1974) reported the above cited Australian case.

Although much earlier, Cleland (1934) first recorded the presence of the "haymaker's mushroom" in Australia, he identified the fungus as Psilocybe foenisecii (Pers.) Fr. (the Latin name Foenisecia, means "Hay? harvest). Cleland made no mention regarding the species toxicity or edibility.

Specimens of P. foenisecii collected near Canberra, Australia were analyzed by R.W. Rickards (cf. Southcott 1974) and were reported as being psilocybin negative. Ott (1976), citing Robbers et al. (1969) as his source, noted that P. foenisecii specimens from Ontario and Indiana were tested as psilocybin positive. The specimens referred to above were actually collected in Quebec and Indiana. Ott (1974?1975) later mentioned that he himself ingested a large number of the "haymaker's mushroom collected near Olympia, Washington; he reported no noticeable effects.

Pollock (1976) based the following statement on a study by Ola'h (1970) involving five samples of P. foenisecii (four from Quebec and one from Paris); "two from Quebec contained both psilocybin and psilocin, whereas the one from Paris and one of the two other samples from Quebec contained psilocybin."

Ott and Guzman (1976) carried out further investigations regarding the production of psilocybin and psilocin in P. foenisecii. They analyzed specimens from the Federal District of Mexico and found them to be void of psilocybin. Ott and Pollock (Guzman et al. 1976) also collected specimens of P. foenisecii from Oregon in 1975. No psilocybin was detected.

Haard and Haard (1975) suggested that psilocybin and psilocin are only found in this fungus in the United States on the East Coast; while Menser (1977) noted that "Western analyses have often shown the presence of psilocybin (but not psilocin) in small amounts only" (the authors of the present study found no reference verifying either Menser's or Haard and Haard's claims). Singer (1978) also ingested "raw" specimens of this species. He reported no "psychotropic" effects whatsoever. Subsequent chemical analysis of P. foenisecii by Singer (1991, Pers. Comm.) was negative. Arora (1979), believing this species to be harmless, stated that the " 'chemical analysis have revealed traces of psilocybin in certain strains, but [the] material I tested was inactive."

Watling (1979) collected specimens of Panaeolina foenisecii in 1974 from Western Australia. He described the suspected poisoning of a two year old girl in Australia (the case originally reported by Southcott in 1974; see case history no. 3 above). Watling briefly mentioned Holden's (1965) report of an alleged poisoning of a three year old child in Great Britain, and argued that "because of its wide spread distribution, and its frequency on lawns and in parks P. foenisecii is likely to cause poisonings, especially in young children."

Cooles (1980) reported that three teen?agers in the British Isles sought emergency treatment after each had allegedly consumed between 20 to 30 mushrooms. The mushrooms in this case were reported to be Panaeolina foenisecii; however, all three patients displayed symptoms of visual disturbances which included "euphoria and hallucinations of color and speed of movements such that lawns developed patches of brilliant colors and cars moved frighteningly fast." It is possible that these three young teen?agers may have consumed some specimens of Panaeolina foenisecii; but the symptoms described are similar to those associated with the ingestion of Psilocybe species (i.e., P. semilanceata (Fr. ex Secr.) Kumm., which is native to the British Isles, and P. cubensis (Earle) Singer, a commonly ingested psychoactive species which is not indigenous to these islands, but can be grown indoors clandestinely). In 1982, Beug and Bigwood published their analysis of two collections of Psathyrella foenisecii (syn, P. foenisecii) collected in 1978 from the Pacific Northwest. They reported the fungus specimens to be void of any psilocybin or psilocin.

Christiansen, Rasmussen, and Holland (1984) analyzed Norwegian specimens of Panaeolina collected from a lawn in September of 1982 and detected no indole compounds. Stijve, Hischenhuber, and Ashley (1984) "...are of the opinion that P. foenisecii cannot contain psilocybin or psilocin at all." These scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 16 different collections of P. foenisecii from 8 countries, including Australia, the United States and six in Europe. Specimens analyzed for possible indole compounds were collected over an eleven year period (1973?1982). Stijve, Hischenhuber, and Ashley also conducted controlled laboratory experiments with human volunteers to test the possible effects of P. foenisecii; however, "...even the equivalent of 40 gm of fresh mushrooms failed to produce any psychotropic effect." Gartz (1985) reported that his study and analysis of 100 specimens of P. foenisecii were psilocybin negative. More recently Ohenoja et al. (1987) detected psilocybin (0.03)% in two separate dried specimens collected in Finland.

In 1977, Allen (1988a) collected a species of Panaeolina in Oxnard, California which macroscopically resembled P. foenisecii; later, Allen bioassayed this species and found that the mushrooms (40 fresh specimens weighing 52 gm) were definitely psychoactive. No voucher specimens were saved for examination. It is possible that the specimens collected in this case were misidentified by Allen and were actually Panaeolus castaneifolius (Murr.) Ola'h=Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr.) Smith, or a similar related variety of Panaeolus. Allen (1988b) also reported that two elderly ladies were allegedly intoxicated by Panaeolina foenisecii in Portland, Oregon.

According to a recent study by Young (1988) "...chromatographic analysis of Australian Material (Panaeolina foenisecii) has not yet demonstrated the presence of any psilocybin in this species."

Based on his personal ingestion of the fungus, John Leonard (1989, Pers. Comm.), a resident of Hingham, Massachusetts, claimed that Panaeolina foenisecii collected on his own front lawn was psychoactive in large quantity. Voucher specimens of Leonard's 1985 collection have been deposited at the Bishop Herbarium in Honolulu, Hawaii for scientific examination (1989. 363. Sheet # 580325. May?June 1985. Plymouth, Mass.). Two other collections of Leonard's specimens were forwarded to Dr. T. Stijve in Switzerland for study. Botanical identity was confirmed and chemical properties were established. Both collections of the fungi were analyzed by High Performance Liquid Chromatography and by High Performance Thin Layered Chromatography with identical results (see Fig. 2). Comparative analyses using specimens of Copelandia cyanescens from the Hawaiian Islands shows that both of Leonard's collections of Panaeolina foenisecii from Massachusetts contain characteristic compounds of Panaeolus species. These include urea, serotonin and its precursor 5?hydroxytryptophan. Although tryptophan might also present, there is definitely no psilocybin or psilocin, (i.e., 0.01% dry weight). Also the absence of bufotonin (5?hydroxy?N, N? dimethyltryptamine) suggests that the fungi is not able to methylate serotonin (Stijve et al., 1984). The results in figure 2 show the difference.

Recently a popular American publication devoted to the drug subculture featured a pictorial which described Panaeolina foenisecii as a common psychoactive fungi (Brolyn 1990).

CONCLUSIONS

In recent years, a number of mycologists have listed this species as being poisonous/hallucinogenic, probably basing their assumption on information provided by the above mentioned research. After re?examining past research and the additional evidence described above, it is our conclusion, as well as that of Gartz (1985), Guzman (1989), Stijve (1989), Watling (1989), Young (1989) and Singer (1991, Pers. Comm.), that Panaeolina foenisecii is not psychoactive.

It is possible that when Panaeolina foenisecii is collected from lawns, taxonomic identification is made, and specimens are passed on for chemical identification, other species known to macroscopically resemble Panaeolina foenisecii are unintentionally included in these collections. The other species could include Panaeolus subbalteatus Berkeley & Broome and/or Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr) Ola'h=Panaeolina castaneifolius (Murr.) Smith (see figs. 3 & 4), or similar Panaeoloidal species. According to Stijve (1989, pers. comm.), this would explain why some collections of Panaeolina foenisecii have been reported to be positive for psilocybin

The authors of this study would recommend controlled studies of cultivated Panaeolina foenisecii in which precursor(s) known to affect production of psilocybin and/or psilocin in proven producers of the indoles would be supplied to the organism. Controlled studies have demonstrated that these indoles are secondary metabolites which may not occur in collections lacking specific nutrients and which occur in larger quantities if proper precursors are provided.


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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