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InvisibleIcelander
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"The only thing new in this world
    #14560894 - 06/04/11 04:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

is the history you don't know" -Harry Truman.

Discuss, if you can.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14560962 - 06/04/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
is the history you don't know" -Harry Truman.

Discuss, if you can.




This was before genetically modified foods.  Obviously.

What I find annoying is when some politician like Truman makes a "truism" about something.  Like those liars ever tell the truth!  They lie like rugs. 

So I would discount it just because the source is tied into the elite and anything he says is colored by that link.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14561004 - 06/04/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good post.

Like those liars ever tell the truth!  They lie like rugs.


Now let me ask you. Is the guy on the street, you, me, any different?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14561040 - 06/04/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The only thing new in this world




Are OC's original topics! :cheers:


--------------------


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14561274 - 06/04/11 06:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Good post.

Like those liars ever tell the truth!  They lie like rugs.


Now let me ask you. Is the guy on the street, you, me, any different?




No.  Everyone is full of shit including me but especially you.  You can quote me on it.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14561329 - 06/04/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Then the OP quote is just as true as any comment you make about it. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14561892 - 06/04/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It's the perspective that in a never-ending eternal existence everything that we think of as being new is not really new at all, everything that can happen has happened. Even if it happened before this universe expanded out of a black hole, it happened at some point.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: soldatheero]
    #14561962 - 06/04/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Pretty cool Harry knew all that. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14561998 - 06/04/11 09:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Possibly, he doesn't necessarily have to "know it" for fact, it could just be his philosophy. Who knows what these guys in power actually know tho, they could know some wild shit.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: soldatheero]
    #14562964 - 06/05/11 01:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I have this little saying that goes," most people believe history begins and ends with their lifetime".  I think he's saying something like this.  Human history has always been much the same on a base level but if you're not aware of that you might think you're in a novel situation and attempt to deal with it in unrealistic ways.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14563000 - 06/05/11 01:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have this little saying that goes," most people believe history begins and ends with their lifetime".  I think he's saying something like this.  Human history has always been much the same on a base level but if you're not aware of that you might think you're in a novel situation and attempt to deal with it in unrealistic ways.




I can't see any reason for an organism to consider this as it bears no relation to survival.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: soldatheero]
    #14563048 - 06/05/11 02:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
It's the perspective that in a never-ending eternal existence everything that we think of as being new is not really new at all, everything that can happen has happened. Even if it happened before this universe expanded out of a black hole, it happened at some point.





the question I have to ask myself is; is it possible to believe that and still live a 'proper' life. I mean I'm fairly confident I can acknowledge something seemingly random and insignificant and still enjoy myself and live a 'decent' life but is it possible for most people? It seems as tho the majority needs some kind of mystical entity to bow down to, otherwise it just seems empty and useless. But I think life and society could benefit hugely from perhaps a religion or philosophy that doesn't require 'faith'.


--------------------


∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14563056 - 06/05/11 02:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have this little saying that goes," most people believe history begins and ends with their lifetime".  I think he's saying something like this.  Human history has always been much the same on a base level but if you're not aware of that you might think you're in a novel situation and attempt to deal with it in unrealistic ways.





Yep, its part of a very narrow perspective people tend to have: believing their life is similar to others simply because they are knowledgable about their own life.  The availability heuristic, basically: whatever information is most available is presumed to be most common, regardless of the reality.  Why people fear flying due to the one in a million plane crashes but are not concerned with driving in their car: the former gets more coverage and is very familiar.

Look at the people who want to "help" people by making the government fund healthcare.  What about making homes available for the homeless, feeding the hungry or malnurished, providing shelters for abused children with unfit parents, et cet?  Nope, those things don't directly affect the electorate.  They do, however; have to pay doctors bills.  So it 'just so happens' that their charitable and caring support of public funding of medicine is focused on what will benefit them- with no consideration given the vastly cheaper efforts to clothe, house, and feed those in need.

They say they are trying to be charitable, but instead they have supported a relative luxury: modern healthcare without debt, and ignored the more serious concerns they'd be focused on if their intentions were unselfish and unencumbered by naroow perspective.


Quote:

Icelander said:
Good post.

Like those liars ever tell the truth!  They lie like rugs.


Now let me ask you. Is the guy on the street, you, me, any different?




No, in fact I find the vitriole directed at politicians to be misplaced- at least where elected or appointed by some sort of popular process, like the in the US. 

Politicians do the same as anyone: try to get the most benifets they can.  If they are lieing, then its because its in their interest to lie.

Look at Obama: he ran on a platform opposing warantless wiretaps, against the PATRIOT Act, against the war in Iraq, and what did he do?  He not only voted to allow warantless wiretaps, but passed a bill giving immunity to companies that violated the law and their contracts with customers by giving their information to third parties, like the government.  Then, he extended the patriot act multiple times (proactively seeking to produce a bill that would pass when he got in office), and continued exactly as Bush had done in the Iraqi war: even going so far as to announce he would hold to the timetable Bush had made.

Why did he do these things?  Because they are in his interest to do them.  The problem is the idiots who vote for people like that- either out of ignorance (in which case they shouldn't be voting at all) or out of some stupid emotionally-motivated affinity for the candidate.

So not only does he get the advantage of people supporting him for opposing the PATRIOT Act, Iraq War, wiretaps, et cet, but he gets the support of people who want these things as well.  If the public is too stupid/ignorant to know what he's doing, or votes for him anyways, then why should he do anything different?  A system which requires the participants to act against their own interests in order to succeed is bound to fail, i.e. communism. The problem is that the electors don't make lieing, gong against your platform, et cet against the politicians interest.

Seriously: if you ask most people why they support whomever they voted for, they can't answer with any solid reasoning, instead they seem to vote for whomever they have a better emotional affinity to. They litterally cannot name discrete actions they approve of or particular reasons: instead talking about what he said in some debate or speech or policy staement: all of which are usually vauge statement attempting to appeal to values without taking a position on particular issues: (improve education, save the economy, create jobs, blah blah blah)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14563373 - 06/05/11 06:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I have this little saying that goes," most people believe history begins and ends with their lifetime".  I think he's saying something like this.  Human history has always been much the same on a base level but if you're not aware of that you might think you're in a novel situation and attempt to deal with it in unrealistic ways.




I can't see any reason for an organism to consider this as it bears no relation to survival.





What? you got to be kidding.  :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: johnm214]
    #14563375 - 06/05/11 06:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I have this little saying that goes," most people believe history begins and ends with their lifetime".  I think he's saying something like this.  Human history has always been much the same on a base level but if you're not aware of that you might think you're in a novel situation and attempt to deal with it in unrealistic ways.





Yep, its part of a very narrow perspective people tend to have: believing their life is similar to others simply because they are knowledgable about their own life.  The availability heuristic, basically: whatever information is most available is presumed to be most common, regardless of the reality.  Why people fear flying due to the one in a million plane crashes but are not concerned with driving in their car: the former gets more coverage and is very familiar.

Look at the people who want to "help" people by making the government fund healthcare.  What about making homes available for the homeless, feeding the hungry or malnurished, providing shelters for abused children with unfit parents, et cet?  Nope, those things don't directly affect the electorate.  They do, however; have to pay doctors bills.  So it 'just so happens' that their charitable and caring support of public funding of medicine is focused on what will benefit them- with no consideration given the vastly cheaper efforts to clothe, house, and feed those in need.

They say they are trying to be charitable, but instead they have supported a relative luxury: modern healthcare without debt, and ignored the more serious concerns they'd be focused on if their intentions were unselfish and unencumbered by naroow perspective.


Quote:

Icelander said:
Good post.

Like those liars ever tell the truth!  They lie like rugs.


Now let me ask you. Is the guy on the street, you, me, any different?




No, in fact I find the vitriole directed at politicians to be misplaced- at least where elected or appointed by some sort of popular process, like the in the US. 

Politicians do the same as anyone: try to get the most benifets they can.  If they are lieing, then its because its in their interest to lie.

Look at Obama: he ran on a platform opposing warantless wiretaps, against the PATRIOT Act, against the war in Iraq, and what did he do?  He not only voted to allow warantless wiretaps, but passed a bill giving immunity to companies that violated the law and their contracts with customers by giving their information to third parties, like the government.  Then, he extended the patriot act multiple times (proactively seeking to produce a bill that would pass when he got in office), and continued exactly as Bush had done in the Iraqi war: even going so far as to announce he would hold to the timetable Bush had made.

Why did he do these things?  Because they are in his interest to do them.  The problem is the idiots who vote for people like that- either out of ignorance (in which case they shouldn't be voting at all) or out of some stupid emotionally-motivated affinity for the candidate.

So not only does he get the advantage of people supporting him for opposing the PATRIOT Act, Iraq War, wiretaps, et cet, but he gets the support of people who want these things as well.  If the public is too stupid/ignorant to know what he's doing, or votes for him anyways, then why should he do anything different?  A system which requires the participants to act against their own interests in order to succeed is bound to fail, i.e. communism. The problem is that the electors don't make lieing, gong against your platform, et cet against the politicians interest.

Seriously: if you ask most people why they support whomever they voted for, they can't answer with any solid reasoning, instead they seem to vote for whomever they have a better emotional affinity to. They litterally cannot name discrete actions they approve of or particular reasons: instead talking about what he said in some debate or speech or policy staement: all of which are usually vauge statement attempting to appeal to values without taking a position on particular issues: (improve education, save the economy, create jobs, blah blah blah)





Quoted for content. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14563883 - 06/05/11 09:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then the OP quote is just as true as any comment you make about it. :satansmoking:




I disagree.  New things are happening all the time.  The world is changing.  Whether the humans can see it will be key.  That and actually responding with anything other than fear.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14563890 - 06/05/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I disagree back. In the context of how he used it (human emotional affairs) (imo) it's still true today.

Just as true as you insinuating that politicians never tell the truth. Which is no more true then me saying you never tell the truth.  It could happen.:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14563940 - 06/05/11 10:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I disagree back. In the context of how he used it (human emotional affairs) (imo) it's still true today.

Just as true as you insinuating that politicians never tell the truth. Which is no more true then me saying you never tell the truth.  It could happen.:laugh:




I didn't insinuate I merely spoke the truth that politicians lie.  It's their Job, man!

So Harry was saying that until he learned that the Fist Lady was routinely getting fisted by the maid, it really didn't happen?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: LunarEclipse] * 1
    #14564098 - 06/05/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No:nono: You said they never tell the truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: "The only thing new in this world [Re: Icelander]
    #14564265 - 06/05/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No:nono: You said they never tell the truth.




Like good con men they tell people what they want to hear.  Why all the concern with the telling?  Very telling I would say.  Tell me about it.  Send me a freaking miracle.  Not a freaking grievance.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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