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Invisiblebbox244
Legally Insane
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Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 205
Loc: USA Flag
Using/Maintaining Rubbermaid and Sterilite Tubs
    #14559152 - 06/04/11 08:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In mycology, it is very common to work with Rubbermaid or Sterilite tubs.  This is a tek for working with and maintaining these tubs.  All of this is how I personally make, work with, and maintain all of my tubs.  Since I have very bad temp fluctuations, I use tubs for everything.

--Updated 06/23/2011--
Minor changes to reflect usage of Radiant Insulation results, very good stuff, amazing.  Also, some newly discovered easy crack free cutting methods, usable on ALL plastics.  Also, updated hole cutting section with notes on using RR's still air box with the 4" pvc caps and contams, as well as construction.

--Updated 06/10/2011--
This document has been updated to cover the following extras:

1) Very extensive section on the heating of very large tubs, 37/45gallon in particular since this one is commonly available, and extremely difficult to heat to incubation temperatures, because of heat loss.  These tubs are nice since you can fill them with dozens of quart jars for incubation, and make nice shelves to hold many trays of colonized/cased substrate for fruiting and keep perfect fruiting conditions in them without any difficulty at all, very hands free.
2) Usage of adhesives are one of the top 2 things to know about tubs so I updated that section.  Since I only use the structural adhesive DP8010 for tubs, I went ahead and bought and tested the inexpensive non-structural adhesive for tubs called High Performance Industrial Plastic Adhesive 4693H from 3M for $13.  They claim it's as strong as their structural adhesive DP8010 and I posted my personal notes in that section.
3) A link to another TEK which details putting shelves in tubs, these shelves can easily hold a full load of quart jars without issue, when properly constructed.  The TEK itself is a dehyrator TEK, but the part about shelves is very thorough.

First of all, we need to understand exactly what we are working with.  In our case these tubs usually sport a triangle on the bottom which has a number 5 in it.  Society of Plastic Industry's (SPI) resin identification code for Polypropylene which is a Polyolefin plastic, such as HDP and Polyethylene.  The biggest problem we face using this material is adhesives and cracking. 

The wide use of polyethylene and polypropylene plastics as well as their copolymers and alloys has increased interest in adhesive bonding of these materials. Polyolefins are very difficult to bond on account of their non-polar, non-porous and chemically inert surfaces.  One successful approach to adhesive bonding of these materials involves proper surface pretreatment prior to bonding.  You need to know that you will commonly use adhesives with tubs when you want to make Glove Boxes, glue on hooks, wire holders, fix cracks (very very common), gluing on attachments, and many other uses.  I will outline 2 ways of using adhesives for usage with tubs.

1) Surface modification.  By chemically altering the surface of the tub material, we can use common adhesives, such as cyanoacrylates like super glue, or plastic epoxies.  The easiest way for surface modification is oxidation via flame.  You simply need a common propane torch and a 1 pound container of gas.  You can get a pencil type torch and a canister of propane at almost every hardware store and Walmart as well.  First, you must clean the surface of any dirts/molds/etc.  The best cleaner for PP is Acetone (nail polish remover) or any similar keytone.  You use the Acetone on a cotton/paper towel to thoroughly clean the surfaces you want to add adhesive too.  Then after everything has dried (a minute or two), you take your propane torch on low and glide it back and forth over the surface of the tub, and whatever part you are gluing if it is a polyolefin plastic as well.  Once the surface(s) are shiny/glossy, surface oxidation has taken place, stop and let cool.  Once complete, wash with detergent.  Now you have a chemically altered surface which will adhere to common plastic adhesives such as those previously mentioned.  You can now effectively seal cracks or glue on attachments, etc.

2) Using a newer adhesive specifically designed for use on polyolefin plastics.  This is typically more expensive than the first option.  There are typically either structural or non-structural adhesives available.  A structural adhesive is the strongest type, epoxy being one of the most common types.  With a structural adhesive, the structure of the bonding element is actually stronger than the structure of what is being bonded.  I personally use structural adhesives whenever needed since they are extremely durable and are very sturdy.  Non-structural adhesives are basic glues which can also be used and often have solvents and VOC's to aid in drying.  Once applied they dry and the process is complete.  For fixing cracks, adding attachments, etc to Polypropylene, I prefer 3M Scotch-Weld Plastic Adhesive DP8010.

Here is the 3M definition:
3M™ Scotch-Weld™ Structural Plastic Adhesive DP8010 is an off-white, low surface energy plastic bonder. 10:1 mix ratio, 10 minute work life and handling strength in 2 hours. 3M™ Scotch-Weld™ EPX™ applicator and 10:1 Conversion Kit.

3M™ Scotch-Weld™ Structural Plastic Adhesive DP8010 has medium viscosity with spacer beads for bond line control. Bonds to polypropylene, polyethylene and other LSE plastics.

Typically, a cost for a cartridge is $28 and the applicator is around $40-$50.  I'm still using my first cartridge and have fixed a lot of cracks and have mostly used it for that and attaching other plastics to my tubs.  You can find everything you need at:

DP 8010 Structural Adhesive

Also, if you want to save some money and use adhesives without surface prep, 3M also has a line of non-structural adhesives they claim are just as strong as the structural ones, check this out here:

High Performance Non-Structural Adhesive 4693H
The cost for a tube is about $13.

I purhased the non-structural tube to test it against my experience with the structural one.  First thing I noticed right away was that the $13 tube will last forever, it is huge.  Also, the consistency of the non-structural is not very viscous, meaning that it will run when applied so it will probably require a couple coats, or a single coat with a second one to re-inforce.  I went ahead and started using it, it does work very well. It doesn't harden nearly as hard as the structural stuff, it remains a bit soft to the touch after being fully cured.  Strength wise however, I would say the bonds are almost as strong as the structural adhesive.  The structural adhesive is like steel, very hard, very sturdy, the non-structural hardens a little softer, but will work perfectly for cracks and most jobs, thus I can personally recommend it as well.

Next, I want to discuss the cutting of holes used in mono-tubs/SGFC's/MMSG's/Using a real shotgun to blast your tub/Cutting arm holes for a GloveBox/Cutting a notch in a tub for attaching a non-submersible aquarium heater/ and many more cutting uses.  j/k on the real shotgun.

First off, as you probably already know, these tubs crack very easily.  The primary cause of cracking is vibration.  When using a standard cheap drill bit to cut a hole, the plastic will often ride up the bit and crack, or crack from the vibration of the bit.  The best way to cut holes from 1/64" to 1" is to use a plastic drill bit in the size you want.  Plastic bits typically have sharper points and less pitch than conventional drill bits and will make a smooth hole without riding up the drill bit. Slow to medium speeds work best when working with Polypropylene.  Also, you want to make sure the underside of what you are drilling is well supported by either a block of wood, or a newspaper roll.  Also, to minimize vibration, I typically will put masking tape on both sides of the plastic I want to drill through.  For small holes, the risk of cracking is greatly reduced, so you typically can just drill away without cracking using normal bits, up to 1/4" or so.

For larger holes, like arm holes, or fan holes, etc.  You have a couple of different possibilities.  I personally prefer a dremel tool above all others.  They can make any shape, and are very quick and easy to use.  Cover both sides of the plastic with masking tape, trace your square, circle, or whatever you want to cut, and start by putting the tub up against something solid, like a railing, etc.  I typically use my other hand to hold a block of wood against the backside of the plastic I intend to cut, close to the cutting area of the dremel bit.  I usually set the dremel to very high speed so it doesn't grab to the plastic and tear a notch right across the front of the side your cutting.  You either drill a hole first inside the drawing using a plastic bit, or slowly use the dremel itself to drill the bit into position inside the line of what you are cutting.  Once the bit is in place and the speed is high, carefully and slowly move the dremel along the line traced.  While you are making your cut, take your other hand holding the block of wood and keep it flat against the backside of the plastic and slide it slowly along the trace line slowly inline with the cutting bit as it cuts.  A little update on using Dremel bits, if you use an 1/8" high speed cutting bit, it's the one with about a 3/8" of cutting surface on the bit, it has many tiny teeth, instead of large cutting teeth which cover the length of the bit.  I had previously been using the large cutting area bit which has large cutting teeth or grooves along the length of the bit and will cut very fast and can grab the plastic and shoot off to the sides very easily.  In addition this large cutting area bit had suck large "teeth/cutting folds" that it will ride up and crack the heck out of the plastic unless I take all the measures discussed to protect the plastic from cracking.  So, lately I've been working with this new $4 bit which had tiny teeth, it don't have to use any tape, or do anything other than support the plastic while I cut.  This new bit has little teeth, so I turn the speed way up, hold the dremel at a 45 deg cutting angle and the bit just slowly cuts/melts the plastic as it cuts, literally you will see a small pool of plastic build up as you cut and it is amazingly easy to use, no grabbing, no cracking just very slow accurate cuts.  Plus your hand doesn't get so sore since you don't have to tightly grip the dremel.  I just recently used it to cut a Plexi-Glass window for a modded-Tit-SGFC and it made perfect linear cuts on both the tub lid, AND the high-density Plexi-Glass.  One note though, when the plexi-glass melts it gives off chemicals which can be harmful if inhaled, so make sure if you use this bit on plastics which are not Polyfins (i.e. Chemically inert), you need to be careful to have good ventilation, or just a fan blowing on you and your work.  I just used a fan and it worked out great.  There is no worry on the tubs since they just melt away with no chemical release.  Also, when the cuts are done, you'll need to take a utility blade and scrape off any melted plastic which had adhered to the cuts themselves, this takes 1 min to do, very easy.  This new bit has made cutting plastics a total breeze, no grabbing, no cracking, just slow accurate cuts. (will post a good pic when possible).

Another option is to use a hole drill, which will drill a perfectly round hole to the dimension of the circle you have drawn.  These are available at any hardware store and come in several dimensions.  A common usage is to get 4" PVC pipe end caps and a 4" hole cutter from the hardware store and use these to items to make the same still air box that RR uses in his videos.  Notice in the video, he just screws on the caps and walks away when finished, yeah, it's that easy.  This method works perfectly for creating the same thing for you.  When using one of these bits, you want to place a block of wood on the backside of the plastic being cut and slowly cut the hole at high speed.  A hole cutter has a center drill which keeps it stable, and will penetrate the block of wood and keep the vibration to zero as you are cutting.  In any case, you still want to cover both sides of the plastic with masking tape as you would if using a dremel.  Once the hole is cut and the hole cutter is touching the wooden block on the other side of the tub, you simply reduce speed and retract the drill.  Now, just use a standard screw driver to remove the PolyPropylene disc which is likely embedded into the hole cutter.  If making RR's still air box, just screw in your 4" PVC pipe covers and you are ready to go.  I have one of these and have only had minor contam issues, 100% due to user error.  The box itself is perfect for g2g, GLC's, LC nocs, agar work, etc.  As long as you don't open up an infected jar or plate in the box, you won't ever have contam issues if you follow RR's instruction in the video to a tee.  This is not a kiss-ass statement, it is just a fact from my experience using his still air box design.  I once opened up a cobweb infected plate and didn't bother to really analyze the strange looking plate before opening and ended up infecting several plates and even a jar with cobweb.  If I would have looked at the plate first and saw the cobweb reaching into the sky, I could have prevented all of my problems from contams, but I didn't look and I had a GB disastor.  This is just a little side note on using a still air box I felt was important to include with this document since a lot of people will be using this section to make arm holes for the same type of box.  One last thing, when doing agar work in a box like this, re-sterilize the box with a quick wipe and yourself every 20-30 plates/sections or so.  Just a good idea so you don't loose all your work over a stupid mistake, and it takes 5 minutes to whipe down/spray a box.  The full procedure is in the next section, but for a quick sterilization after the box has already been leaned, you just wipe the sides with a bleached paper towel, let dry for a minute, and spray the interior of it with ISO 91% and some h202.  Cover the arm holes with PVC caps, or tyvek, and take a 5min break, then open it up and go back to work.  Following procedure, and remembering not to light anything on fire inside the box.  Plus, when doing delicate work covered in tyvek, surgical masks, hairnets, etc, you'll need the break anyway.  Then you can go back to work once you've re-iso'd your arms/body up and are ready to go.

For the next section we will cover basic maintenance of the tubs.  This includes cleaning maintenance which is the primary form of maintenance you will need to perform.  If done periodically enough, you will reduce the contamination rate of projects you are working on and keep mold and bacteria from forming/spreading.  To clean a tub, you just need to perform the following basic procedure and this applies to Fruiting chambers, Incubation chambers, TiT setups, GB's, etc.  First thing you'll need is detergent and anti-bacterial soap, standard bleach, 3% H202, and 91% isopropyl alcohol, generic Lysol, and 2-3 small $1 spray bottles from Walmart.

1) Use a detergent and some anti-bacterial soap and scrub down all parts of the tub.  Do this a couple of times, and thoroughly rinse the tub after cleaning each time.  The purpose here is to get rid of any solids, grease, etc which have accumulated in/on the tub.

2) Take a couple paper towels and moisten with bleach.  Wear gloves during this procedure.  Take the towels and wipe down all sides of the tub and let dry for a few minutes.

3) I recommend using small spray bottles filled with H202 and alcohol for these 2 steps.  Take your h202 bottle and spray down a fine mist on all sides of the tub.  Let sit for 2-4 minutes, go ahead and keep cleaning your other tubs while you wait.  Once the mist has had it's time to oxidize any contams, go ahead and wipe dry with a clean paper towel.

4) Spray down all sides with both iso alcohol and generic lysol and let dry.

If storing the tub for later use, put on the lid and cover openings with duct taped on paper/tyvek, etc.  This is to keep the inside of the tub clean until it's needed again.

If not storing, you are ready to put the tub back into service at this point. 

Notes on using large tubs, such as the 37 or 45 gallon tubs:

If you are making very large incubators or fruiting chambers and decide to use Tub-in-Tub designs for heating requirements, you will run into problems with heating large tubs, even with a TiT arrangement.  Due to the surface area of the sides of the large tub the heat inside the outertub quickly radiates off the tub, thus it is impossible to heat the inner tub above ambient temperature with a traditional aquarium heater.  To truely heat the inner tub to any desired temperature and keep it green, you need to employ the following technique:

1) -edit-  This section is strongly recommended, see below on the heating tub section to read some personal usage notes.  This material has fixed my biggest problem in my lab, temp flucs and energy costs.  Anyway:
Purchase a roll of radiant insulation from the hardware store, typically you can get it in rolls of 24" by 50' for around $10.  It consists of 2 thin sheets of aluminum with a non-heat conducting material sandwiched between the aluminum.  What makes this material very unique is that it is 95-97% non-thermal conductive.  That means that heat will not travel through it.  Typically it is only 1/4-3/8" thick and is very easy to work with.  It comes in 2 forms, one with small holes in it, this is typically used in attics and it's breathable to keep mold and bacteria from building up in your room by allowing air to pass through it.  The other kind has no holes and is a perfect vapor barrier, it is used on new construction builds and is placed on the walls of a new/existing building.  I only use the second kind, it is a perfect vapor barrier and will not allow any airflow through it, thus hot air cannot escape it, and cold air cannot enter.  It is very easy to spot since the holes in the aluminum are large enough to easily see through the packaging, plus there are warnings on the packaging to not use it in your attic.  I bought a roll of the breathable stuff too and will post usage results on that soon.  You can use regular duct tape to encase the tub, even though builders use aluminum tape for the seams.  Granted the Aluminum tape looks way more awesome, it also costs about triple what a roll of duct tape costs.  Start by cutting a piece slightly larger than the bottom of the tub, place the tub on top of the sheet in the center and pull up the sides and duct tape it to the tub.  Then cut a piece long enough to cover a long side and make sure you overlap the ends by 4 inches on each side to attach to the slender ends of the tub and since it is 24" wide, you will have a couple inches of overlap which will fasten to the bottom as well.  Once the piece is cut, duct tape the bottom overlap and fold the sides around like wrapping a gift and fasten with duct tape.  Do this for both long sides and then follow the same procedure for the slender ends of the tub.  When finished you will probably have some over lap on the top of the tub.  What you do here is cut along the top edge of the tub and go all the way around the rim of the top edge of the tub so that you can tape all sides of the rim.  Once done cutting, use duct tape to seal the sides of the radiant insulation to the top of the tub, this will hold fine since there is no stress on the insulation.  By doing this you will literally gain a 100% gain in heating capacity for your inner tub.  This whole procedure takes no more than 20 minutes.

2) Now that you have an insulated tub, you will need to get a water circulator for an aquarium, I recommend getting the Pico Hydro 800 Centrifugal pump.  You can get this online for around $15.  It comes with a base plate and four suction cups to attach to the bottom of the tub to keep the water moving.  This will greatly help in heating the inner tub since this single pump will slowly circulate the water all around the bottom and the sides of the inner tub.  All you have to do is place it in the bottom center of the outer tub and angle the input/output of the pump so that it is at a 45 degree angle from the side of the tub.

3) Don't skimp on water, you want to fill the outer tub at least 2-3" above the top of the pump.  This is important so that you have enough water so that it will reach up the sides of the inner tub, for example, a 37 gal inside a 45 gal tub.  You don't need to worry about evaporation with this TEK, you will only have to add water once every few weeks at most. 

4) Buy a couple 150-200W Submersible aquarium heaters for around $14-$17 a piece.  You can get away with one, but I -edit- now recommend using just 1 with such a large setup.  If you are using Radiant Insulation, you can just use a single heater.  I previously was using three with success.  Once I covered the outer tub in the insulation, I was able to take out 2 of the heaters and now I have just a single heater heating the entire tub, with no problems.  The insulation is absolutely amazing, I have never seen anything like it in my life, and I want to put it everywhere now, all over my lab, and even on my house.  A quick note, I found online that it was used by NASA in spacesuits to keep the astronauts safe from temp flucs of -240 deg C to +240 deg C.  So, if it can do that, it fully explains why a single heater can reflect the heat loss in a 45gallon tub with no temp flucs. Just submerse the heater and let the air bubble out, then simply lay it on the bottom of the tub.  Put each one just one each on one side of the circulator and turn it to your desired temperature plus 5-7 0-1 degrees.  You will notice that a hurricane can blow through your lab and the temp in the tub will remain constant.  You will also notice that your lab can get up to 90 deg F for an entire day and the temp in the tub will only go up a single deg F.  This has happened to me, and since I use usb controlled wireless temp monitors I constantly monitor the temp in my tubs each day and look at the low/high points every time I arrive at the lab.  I was getting around 10 deg flucs during each day before I added insulation.  I also found that if the lab temp was a bit higher, the temp in the tubs would jump as well even though the heaters were preset to a max temp.  Strange behavior, but it has all changes since I insulated my tubs.  I cannot emphasize enough what a MAJOR difference the insulation has made.  If you are doing research like me, you want constant temps, and constant colonization/fruiting variables, and for temp, the only variable beyond my control, this stuff fixed all my problems.

5) Place the inner tub into the outer tub and cover the whole thing with a 50gallon contractors trash bag.  You can get these at any hardware store or WalMart.  They are cheap and work extremely well at keeping the heat and water moisture in.  Just let the sides of the bag evenly cover each side of the inner tub and the outer tub.  You will still have adequate GE for incubators and perfect FAE for your terrarium if using air pumps.  If you want, you can tack the sides of the bag down with a couple pieces of duct tape on all sides, this will give you a couple extra degrees of heat.  But letting the edges just hang off the sides works perfectly if the air is relatively still.

6) Lift the bag and load your tub with whatever you need.  Fill the shelves with trays for fruiting or quart jars, or whatever you are doing.  If the tub sinks to the point where it is sitting on top of the pump you didn't put in enough water, add water until the tub is floating.  If the tub is floating after loading you are good to go.
Go ahead and replace the bag cover.

7) If the tub is lightly loaded you will need to weight down the inner tub until its edges are just above the outer tubs edges and not sitting on the circulator pump.  This is easy, you can simply put a couple bricks, or weights, or even a bag of clothing, or a box of stuff.  Just make sure you center it nicely so that the inner tub remains stable.  The best option is you can drill holes along the rim of both the inner and outer tub and use wire ties or twine to pull the inner tub down thus forcing the water up the sides.  You only need to fasten the tub with 6 ties/strings or so.  This is by far the best way to do it since the tub will always remain at a constant position no matter how much material is in the inner tub,  and stay put when empty.  This is also by far the best way to keep it level.

8) Optional, but highly recommended, get a digital wireless accurite thermometer from walmart to monitor the inner tub temp.  You can simply use a screw in hook and attach it to the side, so that it isn't touching the inner wall of the tub, but hanging in the air so that it measures the air temp inside the tub and not the temp of the wall.

If all of these steps are followed, you will have a very inexpensive, stealthy and green efficient incubator or if modified, a very very self sufficient fruiting chamber.  In fact, this is the style of fruiting chambers I have been using since day one, and they are easier and better than other FC's in my opinion.  The humidity is constant, no need for misting, fanning, expensive equipment, etc.  You get really good FAE from pumps on timers and it is easy to cut out a hole in the top of the inner tub and glue on a piece of plexiglass and lay a grow bulb on top of that.  If used as an FC, you will be amazed at how little energy is used compared to other methods and you will be amazed at how much FAE and 99% RH you get with some shelves, perlite, and pumps.  This concludes the section on using very large tubs.


A couple misc notes on usage maintenance:

1)  When using perlite, if it begins to smell, you can take your h202 spray bottle and spray down the perlite.

2)  If you have a TiT incubator with a heater submerged or hanging on the side, it is a good idea to add a water centrifugal pump suction cupped to the side towards the bottom in a corner so that the intake sucks up water from the bottom and shoots it down the long side of the tub. This will make the TiT Incubator keep a consistent temperature on the inner tub.  I also recommend adding some h202 to the water in the outer tub and covering the whole assembly with a black contractors trash bag (50gal) from Walmart.  This will reduce heat loss dramatically as well as water loss.

3)  If using as a glove box, always keep the arm holes covered with paper taped on with duct tape and the lid on for storage.

There are many more things to be done to use/care for these tubs but I'm pretty sure I covered the most basic ones in this tek.

Also, for adding shelves to tubs check out my dehydrator tek which covers the addition of shelves to tubs very well and is fully illustrated:

Tub Dehydrator TEK

Update 2011-06-08:
I just found a couple sites which have some additional info on bonding techniques and experiences with using Polyolefin plastics, one has some interesting history:

Sealing and Bonding Polypropylene and Polyethylene
And...
BONDING POLYETHYLENE, POLYPROPYLENE, THEIR COPOLYMERS & ALLOYS

IF these links ever go dead, please PM me and let me know, plus these links are routed through an anonymous refer engine.


--------------------
.... Always curious, always looking for better ways, mind always wonders ....

TRUE HEPA Filtered Air Pumps TEK
Everything you need to know about tubs TEK
Fast Tub Dehydrator TEK


Edited by bbox244 (06/23/11 03:52 PM)


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Invisiblejokefox
Top of the chain
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 6,231
Loc: never where I should be
Re: Using/Maintaining Rubbermaid and Sterilite Tubs [Re: bbox244]
    #14559621 - 06/04/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:fonz:


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InvisibleSpector
Just Disappeared

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 167
Loc: A Scientific Location....
Re: Using/Maintaining Rubbermaid and Sterilite Tubs [Re: jokefox]
    #14559931 - 06/04/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ay!
:fonz:
(i was looking for a fonz Character)

Good job :thumbup:
Edit: this post will be great of noobies
who have no clue where to start.


Edited by Spector (06/04/11 12:47 PM)


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OfflineISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe
Male


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
Loc: Firmly planted in reality
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Using/Maintaining Rubbermaid and Sterilite Tubs [Re: Spector]
    #14714373 - 07/04/11 05:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Spector said:
Ay!
:fonz:
(i was looking for a fonz Character)

Good job :thumbup:
Edit: this post will be great of noobies
who have no clue where to start.




I completely disagree.
A shotgun fc works just as well with a fraction of the cost and effort.
No need to heat the fc, just the room itself.  Air pumps, hepa filters, etc, all unnecessary, expensive, prone to failure.
Everyone is so scared by the simple, most effective methods.
This is a pretty ridiculous and silly noob method.
Outdated info too.


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Offlineozzysmygod
Late Night PC'ing Enthusiast
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Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 835
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Using/Maintaining Rubbermaid and Sterilite Tubs [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14714801 - 07/04/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I melt my holes in my monotubs, never had one crack!

I use a baby food jar lid (approx 2") attatched to a bolt. I heat it up on a gas cooker, using pliers to hold it, then just melt through the plastic. It requires re-heating between holes though.

I did the same with my original glove box, using a larger biscuit tin for arm holes.

Good thread, didnt have a clue glueing PP was so difficult, but then never tried it

Thanks!


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