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Asante
Mage


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Quote:
They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil
Look at that thread title! Its so specific! Downright loony bin talk! You dont expect people like Meams, scientific minded with an anti superstition agenda, to come in and affirm experiencing the same phenomenon in different guises.
He describes anxiety responses so severe it would do an elderly heart patient in. Doesnt sound like the brains usual way to make a psychological point.
Is he missing some sort of guardian force of his brain which bounces such creatures at the exit, a guardian that goes AWOL in me when I take too much E, and occasionally something takes advantage of us in that vulnerable state?
What kind of wholesome psychological message is Meams supposed to be getting from being almost scared to death every now and again? One worth the physiological emergencies he wakes up with? If anything, its an attack on his sanity and health.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Well, sure, in the same way that a heart attack is an attack on the heart by demons.
I'm not arguing against that idea, either, but the idea you're proposing would appear to involve a pretty dramatic reappraisal of traditional definitions. I like that kind of thing and I'm not closed to the idea of disembodied will.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,799
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Hey, just making the discussion more interesting by voicing the supernatural angle.
I believe "all is one and thou art that" remember, to me theres no such thing as an external influence.
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mrckb
Bob Sacamano


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Yo Wiccan, wheres the poll at?
I have never experienced this phenomena that I know of. I have drowned before in my sleep thinking and woke up short of breathe in a gasp.
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igwna
The Cap'n


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They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: Asante]
#14563251 - 06/05/11 04:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Familiar?
Congratulations, it's not just you, it's called Night Terrors and they happen to many people all over the world.
Are they real? Toughie. Theres something thats going to sit on your chest at night, suffocating you, thats presumably amorphous. You give it shape. It can be a dusty coal black creature, or an evil leathery leprechaun like witch, or a black cat. Or undifferentiated as an amorphous mass. But it does hop on your chest, often throws you around like a ragdoll if you struggle, is quite evil and constricts your breath.
Heres a sighting dating several centuries back:

They come to you when you fall asleep or wake up in a state known as Sleep paralysis.
But this type of creature is described the world over:
Quote:
East Asia
In Chinese culture, sleep paralysis is widely known as "鬼壓身/鬼压身" (pinyin: guǐ yā shēn) or "鬼壓床/鬼压床" (pinyin: guǐ yā chu�ng), which literally translate into "ghost pressing on body" or "ghost pressing on bed." A more modern term is "夢魘/梦魇" (pinyin: m�ng yǎn). In Japanese culture, sleep paralysis is referred to as kanashibari (金縛り, literally "bound or fastened in metal," from "kane" (metal) and "shibaru" (to bind, to tie, to fasten). This term is occasionally used by English speaking authors to refer to the phenomenon both in academic papers and in pop psych literature.[28] In Korean culture, sleep paralysis is called gawee nulim (Hangul: 가위눌림), literally meaning "being pressed down by a scissor". It is often associated with a superstitious belief that a ghost or spirit is lying on top of or pressing down on the sufferer. In Mongolian culture, nightmares in general as well as sleep paralysis is referred to by the verb-phrase khar darakh (written kara darahu), meaning "to be pressed by the Black" or "when the Dark presses". "Kara" means black and may refer to the dark side personified. "Kharin buu" means shaman of the Black (shamans of the dark side only survive in far-northern Mongolia), while "tsaghaan zugiin buu" means shaman of the white direction (referring to shamans who only invoke the benevolent spirits). Compare 'karabasan' (the dark presser) in Turkish, which may date from pre-Islamic times when the Turks had the same religion and mythology as the Mongols. See Mythology of the Turkic and Mongolian peoples and Tengriism.
[edit] South-East Asia
In Cambodian, Laotian, and Thai culture, sleep paralysis is called phǐǐ am and khmout sukkhot. It is described as an event in which the person is sleeping and dreams that one or more ghostly figures are nearby or even holding him or her down. The sufferer usually thinks that he or she is awake but unable to move or make any noises. This is not to be confused with pee khao and khmout jool, ghost possession. In Hmong culture, sleep paralysis is understood to be caused by a nocturnal pressing spirit, "dab tsog." Dab tsog attacks "sleepers" by sitting on their chests, sometimes attempting to strangle them. Some believe that dab tsog is responsible for Sudden Unexpected Nocturnal Death Syndrome (SUNDS), which claimed the lives of over 100 Southeast Asian immigrants in the late 1970s and early 1980s. In Sleep Paralysis: Night-mares, Nocebos, and the Mind-Body Connection (Rutgers University Press, 2011), Shelley Adler, PhD, offers a biocultural perspective on sleep paralysis and the sudden deaths. She suggests that an interplay between the Brugada syndrome (a genetic cardiac disorder) and the traditional meaning of a dab tsog attack are at the heart of the sudden deaths.[29] In Vietnamese culture, sleep paralysis is referred to as "ma đ�", meaning "held down by a ghost" or "b�ng đ�", meaning "held down by a shadow". In Philippine culture, "bangungut", or sudden unexplained death syndrome, has traditionally been attributed to nightmares.[30] People who have claimed to survive such nightmares have reported experiencing the symptoms of sleep paralysis.[citation needed] In New Guinea, people refer to this phenomenon as "Suk Ninmyo", believed to originate from sacred trees that use human essence to sustain its life. The trees are said to feed on human essence during night as to not disturb the human's daily life, but sometimes people wake unnaturally during the feeding, resulting in the paralysis. In Malay of Malay Peninsula, sleep paralysis is known as 'kena tindih' (or 'ketindihan' in Indonesia), which means "being pressed".[31] Incidents are commonly considered to be the work of a malign agency; occurring in what are explained as blind spots in the field of vision, they are reported as demonic figures.
[edit] South Asia
In Pakistan, sleep paralysis is considered to be an encounter with Shaitan (Urdu: شيطان ) (Satan), evil jinns or demons who have taken over one's body. Like Iran, this ghoul is known as 'bakhtak' (Urdu: بختک). It is also assumed that it is caused by the black magic performed by enemies and jealous persons. People, especially children and young girls, wear Ta'wiz (Urdu: تعویز) (Amulet) to ward of evil eye. Spells, incantations and curses could also result in ghouls haunting a person. Some homes and places are also haunted by evil ghosts, satanic or other supernatural beings and they could haunt people living there especially during the night. Muslim holy persons (Imams, Maulvis, Sufis, Mullahs, Faqirs) perform exorcism on individuals who are possessed. The homes, houses, buildings and grounds are blessed and consecrated by Mullahs or Imams by reciting Qur'an and Adhan (Urdu: أَذَان), the Islamic call to prayer, recited by the muezzin. In Tamil Nadu and Sri Lankan Tamil culture, this particular phenomenon is referred to as 'Amuku Be' or 'Amuku Pei' meaning "the ghost that forces one down". In Nepal, especially Newari culture it is also known as 'Khyaak' a ghost-like figure believed to reside in the darkness under the staircases of a house.
[edit] Middle-East, Western and Central Asia
In Arabic Culture, sleep paralysis is often referred to as 'Kaboos' (Arabic: كابوس), literally "presser" or 'Ja-thoom' (Arabic: جاثوم) literally "What sits heavily on something", though the term 'Kaboos' is also used to refer to any form of bad dreams. In folklore across Arab countries, the 'Kaboos' is believed to be a shayṭān or a ‘ifrīt which sits, heavily, on people's chests. In Turkish culture, sleep paralysis is often referred to as "karabasan" ("The dark presser/assailer"). It is believed to be a creature that attacks people in their sleep, pressing on their chest and stealing their breath. However, folk legends do not provide a reason why the devil or ifrit does that. In Persian culture it is known as 'bakhtak' (Persian: بختک), which is a ghost-like black creature that sits on the dreamer's chest, making breathing hard for him/her.
[edit] Africa
In African culture, isolated sleep paralysis is commonly referred to as "the witch riding your back".[24][25] Several studies have shown that African-Americans may be predisposed to isolated sleep paralysis also known as "the witch is riding you" or "the haint is riding you".[26] In addition, other studies have shown that African-Americans who have frequent episodes of isolated sleep paralysis, i.e., reporting having one or more sleep paralysis episodes per month coined as "sleep paralysis disorder," were predisposed to having panic attacks.[32] This finding has been replicated by other independent researchers.[33][34] Ogun Oru is a traditional explanation for nocturnal disturbances among the Yoruba of Southwest Nigeria; ogun oru (nocturnal warfare) involves an acute night-time disturbance that is culturally attributed to demonic infiltration of the body and psyche during dreaming. Ogun oru is characterized by its occurrence, a female preponderance, the perception of an underlying feud between the sufferer's earthly spouse and a 'spiritual' spouse, and the event of bewitchment through eating while dreaming. The condition is believed to be treatable through Christian prayers or elaborate traditional rituals designed to exorcise the imbibed demonic elements.[35] In Zimbabwean Shona culture the word Madzikirira is used to refer something really pressing one down. This mostly refers to the spiritual world in which some spirit—especially an evil one—tries to use its victim for some evil purpose. The people believe that witches can only be people of close relations to be effective, and hence a witches often try to use one's spirit to bewitch one's relatives. In Ethiopian culture the word 'dukak' is used, which is believed to be an evil spirit that possesses people during their sleep. Some people believe this experience is linked to use of Khat ('Chat'). Khat users experience sleep paralysis when suddenly quitting chewing Khat after use for a long time. In Swahili speaking East Africa, it is known as 'jinamizi', which refers to a creature sitting on one's chest making it difficult for him/her to breathe. It is attributed to result from a person sleeping on his back. Most people also recall being strangled by this 'creature'. People generally survive these 'attacks'
[edit] Europe
In Hungarian folk culture sleep paralysis is called "lid�rcnyom�s" ("lid�rc pressing") and can be attributed to a number of supernatural entities like "lid�rc" (wraith), "boszork�ny" (witch), "t�nd�r" (fairy) or "�rd�gszerető" (demon lover).[36] The word "boszork�ny" itself stems from the Turkish root "bas-", meaning "to press".[37] In Iceland folk culture sleep paralysis is generally called having a "Mara". A goblin or a succubus (since it is generally female) believed to cause nightmares (the origin of the word 'Nightmare' itself is derived from her name). Other European cultures share variants of the same folklore, calling her under different names; Proto-Germanic: marōn; Old English: m�re; German: Mahr; Dutch: nachtmerrie; Icelandic, Old Norse, Faroese, and Swedish: mara; Danish: mare; Norwegian: mare; Old Irish: morrigain; Croatian, Serbian, Slovene: m�ra; Bulgarian, Polish: mara; French: cauchemar; Romanian: moroi; Czech: můra. The origin of the belief itself is much older and goes back to the reconstructed Proto Indo-European root mora-, an incubus, from the root mer- "to rub away" or "to harm". In Malta, folk culture attributes a sleep paralysis incident to an attack by the "Haddiela" who is the wife of the "Hares", an entity in Maltese folk culture that haunts the individual in ways similar to a poltergeist. As believed in folk culture, to rid oneself of the Haddiela, one must place a piece of silverware or a knife under the pillow prior to sleep. In Greece and Cyprus, it is believed that sleep paralysis occurs when a ghost-like creature or Demon named Mora, Vrachnas or Varypnas (Greek: Μόρα, Βραχνάς, Βαρυπνάς) tries to steal the victim's speech or sits on the victim's chest causing asphyxiation.
[edit] Americas
During the Salem witch trials several people reported nighttime attacks by various alleged witches including Bridget Bishop that may have been the result of sleep paralysis.[38] In Mexico, it is believed that this is caused by the spirit of a dead person. This ghost lies down upon the body of the sleeper, rendering him unable to move. People refer to this as "Subirse el Muerto" (Dead Person on you).[citation needed] In many parts of the Southern United States, the phenomenon is known as a "hag", and the event is said to often be a sign of an approaching tragedy or accident. In Newfoundland and Labrador, it is known as the 'Old Hag'.[39] In island folklore, the Hag can be summoned to attack a third party, like a curse. In his 1982 book, The Terror that Comes in the Night, David J. Hufford writes that in local culture the way to call the Hag is to recite the Lord's Prayer backwards. It is also common for believers to claim that those who are not wakened from this paralysis will die. In contemporary western culture it is believed that the phenomenon of reported Alien abduction is caused by sleep paralysis where the hallucination of aliens has been generated by 20th and 21st century science fiction.[40]
A hot night, a heavy meal, stimulant and MDMA analog abuse all are conductive to ending up in the realm of sleep paralysis and possibly meeting this "entity".
What I generally do is when I notice i'm in that state I try as hard as I can to violently shake my limbs. That wakes you up. As episodes often recur the moment you fall back to sleep at this point I tend to reach for the equivalent of 20mg valium, sit behind the computer till it kicks in, then lay down again, which usually bypasses the Sleep Paralysis stage by rapidly falling asleep.
I only had it in my adult life because of abuse of MDMA or close analogs like 6-ABP and Methylone, and this a few nights after the abuse took place.
It can be so unbelievably upsetting that if I abuse an MDMA analog I will take the equivalent of 20mg Valium each night for a week to beat it, and taper to zero in the week thereafter, just to avoid the experience.
Bad trips asre nothing in comparison to the level of terror such an encounter can produce. I generally need nitro immediately after the occurrence vs chest pain, its that bad. As you saw in the quote, it can be an actual attack on your health.
Another creature you can encounter, depending on your sexual affiliation is the Incubus, the Succubus (yes they make same sex house calls if you're gay, I find them very pleasurable) and more forcefully so, the Popobawa.
Key features as opposed to lets say Alien Abduction is that it comes to you in your bedroom, it lies on top of you and does something, be it take your breath, rides you like a horse or sex you up with or without your consent.
Does anyone else have experiences with this phenomenon?
interesting. i heard about this before but never experienced it i rarely wake up without being awake.
but i dont feel paralysed at this point.. i just feel like im awake but want to be asleep/unmoving. i dont think i've EVER tried to wake up from sleep paralysis. i just try to fall back asleep... or listen to whats going on around me (which usually makes me dream soemthing similar to what i hear).
interesting that some people become afraid.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Anthony917
why dont we do it in the road



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Re: [Re: igwna]
#14563327 - 06/05/11 05:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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haha this thread is gonna give me nightmares.
never had this but I remember when I was a kid I had some bad auditory hallucinations that really scared me
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memes
Blessed



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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Meams, do you completely, 100% rule out that the man with the silver shirt wasnt actually there in some form or other? Your whole brain at the time screamed he was. It profoundly and unhealthily affected you. Do you 100% rule out the possibility that you were visited by a spirit, lets say of a deceased party thug? Or that there was something actually there and you projected the thug over it to assign some image to it? Hard to do isnt it, when your senses screamed bloody murder.
There was no distinct moment where i went from "in paralysis" to being "awake". My consciousness and perception did not flicker inbetween. It was a STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS. I was awake. I was perceptive. THere is a man in my room trying to rape the love of my life. THe second she nudges me awake (becuase my breathign is so erratic and loud that it wakes her) i jolt up, ready to grab my gun and kill him.
The second she touches me, i JOLT upright (fastest ever, i swear) and he's already gone.
Gone.
not like "she nudged me, i rolled over, slowly sat up, looked, and he was gone". more like "was layign there on my back, watching him lower hisself down, and then she moved, i sat up immediately, and he was gone." literally took place in .05 seconds
so: was he there? maybe, but not in a form that would be perceivable to a fully alert & awake human being.
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: You dont expect people like Meams, scientific minded with an anti superstition agenda, to come in and affirm experiencing the same phenomenon in different guises.
He describes anxiety responses so severe it would do an elderly heart patient in. Doesnt sound like the brains usual way to make a psychological point.
Yes, I am completely convinced that an elderly person in poor heart health would have EASILY died during my experience. My heartrate was so elevated (obviously i dont know its exact number) that I was scared for my health. Literally worried. Distinguishing individual beats was difficult - it just seemed like a drumroll. And I'm used to extremely elevated haertrates - i work out with KBs and they are known to give you a workout equivalent to cross-country skiing uphill.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: [Re: memes]
#14563483 - 06/05/11 07:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Does anybody sometimes feel like they are dying or that they can't breathe when in sleep paralysis?
I only experienced it once and it amused me and astonished me on all sorts of levels
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maggotz


Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 7,539
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i have experienced sleep paralysis several times but i have never felt a presence sitting on my chest or even particularly scared i think. sometimes it looks as if i'm moving through my room but it does not feel like i'm moving and i'm pretty sure i'm not.
other thing i experience as i fall asleep are feelings of my bodysize changing in comparison to the room or my bed or something. like feeling extremely small or the room being ridiculously large and things like that. also a stream of words or letters (i think there are flashing images sometimes) in a seemingly random sequence forming in my head and i think i may have even said part of it aloud once or twice haha. i assume oher people feel similar things and that they have a name. anybody here know what they are?
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memes
Blessed



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I know what they're not: sleep paralysis
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maggotz


Registered: 06/24/06
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Re: [Re: memes]
#14563515 - 06/05/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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oh yeah, i don't think they are part of sleep paralysis either.
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Altered States
Synesthesia seeker



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Re: They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: Asante]
#14563518 - 06/05/11 07:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It used to happen to me allot when I was a child. I had an old round faulty chipped up electrical plug in the floor of my childhood room that I used to stick my finger in to wake myself up,it used to spark and shock you when you touched it. My room was also on the second floor on top of about 16 large stairs, and I used to throw myself down them to wake up out of my sleep paralysis. I used to do these things to wake up after I would be able to slightly move around but not entirely walk, kind of like sleep crawling and being somewhat conscious. It was very terrifying!! I always thought they where aliens on top of me, even when I was a child. Weird stuff!!
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: Altered States]
#14563523 - 06/05/11 07:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm surprised you were able to move at all. i have been literally 100% paralysed every time its happened to me.
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mescalinician
orbiting earth



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Re: They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: Asante]
#14563558 - 06/05/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've only experienced night terrors a few times, but each time was fucking terrifying.
Each time, I awoke totally paralyzed--save for the ability to move and blink my eyes--and felt a sharp sense of fear. One time when I awoke in a sleep paralysis state I saw what looked like a man standing over me, staring down at me. Scared the living shit out of me. All I could do was look away and hope the image would fade soon.
Interestingly, I've only ever experienced sleep paralysis or night terrors when I fall asleep in the supine position.
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Kada
Asha'man


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Re: [Re: memes]
#14563589 - 06/05/11 08:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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The man in black.
I use to have these dreams ever single night. I would wake up and couldn't move at all. I would feel like something was there and I would be terrified beyond belief. I would go in and out of sleep just scared to death. When I would come out of it I would wake up screaming and terrified.
One night I was having these night terrors and I wasn't scared at all, I was just pissed off. When I slipped back to sleep to have whatever nightmare that brought these on I was restrained by a man in all black. He started taunting me and telling me that he was going to kill my family after he killed me. I didn't get scared, I got pissed. I couldn't move because he was using some force to hold me down like usual, so I let my rage build and I used it to turn into some sort of dragon made from light. I roared and broke free of his hold and he ran like a mother fucker. When I caught him he shot some sort of fire at me but I laughed because fire didn't hurt a dragon. I bit that son of a bitch in half and spit him back out and roasted him to charred bones.
I woke up as my dragon roared. I still remember what it felt like to be a dragon. I never had night terrors again. I didn't get scared, I got pissed and fought it in my dream.
I know crazy story but it really happened. Now If I start feeling this feeling of being held down in my sleep I wake up pissed and I jump out of bed ready to fight. It's annoying and strange, but it goes away because I feel like I refuse to give in to the fear.
Sounds far out and weird? I have dreams every night that are fucked up and I remember them very very well. I am usually in some sort of control of myself in dreams and are aware that I'm dreaming. I couldn't imagine being like my wife and remembering nothing at all about dreams.
I still dream about this man in all black, but usually I'm fighting him and I don't freak out about it in my sleep anymore. I still remember the power of the dragon and it makes me feel safe in my dreams.
Super weird I know. I have weird dreams every night that would make anyone think I was out of my mind.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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TTT
Cultivate the inside


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Re: They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: mescalinician]
#14563603 - 06/05/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Another time I've gotten sleep paralysis was while I was in Nicaragua. It sounds silly and superstitious, especially to myself, but there was something about these two rooms that lined up that made me feel VERY uncomfortable. Like I was in the presence of forces I couldn't begin to fathom and they were not necessarily good vibes.
I woke up once, it was extremely hot and humid. I could not move at all, but I really wanted to because I was so warm. I tried with all my might to move and I successfully sat up in bed but couldn't move out of that position. I looked at this painting of a woman and her eyes watch me. This scares me. I frogot to mention that EVERYTHING is immersed in very psychedelic rippling visuals. The current and forever changing patterns all over the walls, the bed, etc. In the center of the wall is a mushroom in the same patterns, but a circle around it is plain white wall. I had not done psychedelics yet at this point. I struggle to move again because I feel unsafe and I feel like something will know that I am in a vunerable sleep state. I look over and see an a/c and try as hard as I can to move so I can turn the air on. I do. I wake up the next morning and the area around my bed is much cooler than the rest of the room....but there are no a/cs in the house I was staying in.
Those are how my sleep paralysis dreams go. They aren't always super terrifying though I've had some that terrified me. The scary ones generally happen after I have consumed opiates, benzos or alcohol.
Sometimes I'll wake up paralyzed but try to wake up my self, not my body, so I can OBE. I have encountered "beings" that have tried to help me master my focus in the dream realm. These creatures were scary as fuck. They had no bodies, it was just a very very staticy and deep voice.
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dr_gonz
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memes
Blessed



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Re: They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: dr_gonz]
#14563673 - 06/05/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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yep - always on my back.
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dr_gonz
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Kada
Asha'man


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Re: They come at night and sit on your chest. You cannot move or breathe. Strange noises. They're Evil [Re: dr_gonz]
#14563694 - 06/05/11 08:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can't sleep if I'm not on my back.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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