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Offlineiceglow
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My Three Tubs!!!
    #14558087 - 06/03/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Tub 1

Tub 2

Tub 3


These tubs are 2 quarts WBS spawned to 50/50 coir/verm and cased with 50/50 coir/verm.  Substrate is around 2.5 inches.

I don't remember how far along these are.  It seems like I made the tubs up less than a week ago.  The strain is South American from Ralphs.

I'm going to remove the poly from the two ends of the tubs to give FAE.  Last time I got a really nice pinset, but that was cased with just verm not the 50/50 mix.

Wish me luck !!!

-Ice


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: iceglow]
    #14558151 - 06/03/11 10:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Id ruffle up the denser white and dark areas into each other with the tips of your fingers in a brushing manner to even things out. Looks good.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlineiceglow
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: iceglow]
    #14558214 - 06/03/11 11:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

So I have a question....

Last time around was my first monotub.  Basically I got just good old plain dumb luck to bring me 3oz of dried shrooms.  This time around I am starting to pay more attention to things.  This tub is about 7-10 days out from being made with damions 50/50 coir tek and cased.  What am I looking for next in the process.  I understand that this is substrate that is looking rather colonized.  What comes next knots/primordia?  A big thanks to everyone for the help


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: iceglow]
    #14558274 - 06/03/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Casing with 50/50 coir/verm won't do what you expect. Since coir and verm together are nutritious, the myc colonizes that as an extra layer...so you basically threw more substrate on top of substrate.

In the future go heavier on the verm or use peat/lime/whatever instead if you're going to case. For now, you're just looking for 100% colonization, a few days after that, then fruiting conditions. Knots will precede pins and primordia.


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Offlineclintyclint
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: afrosheen]
    #14558288 - 06/03/11 11:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Lookin good! 
I just used the same tek and made my tub up last night. 
Good luck:thumbup:


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OfflineDionili
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: afrosheen]
    #14558348 - 06/03/11 11:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Casing with 50/50 coir/verm won't do what you expect. Since coir and verm together are nutritious, the myc colonizes that as an extra layer...so you basically threw more substrate on top of substrate.

In the future go heavier on the verm or use peat/lime/whatever instead if you're going to case. For now, you're just looking for 100% colonization, a few days after that, then fruiting conditions. Knots will precede pins and primordia.




Dont case witht he same sub! moss peat or lime ftw.


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Offlineiceglow
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: Dionili]
    #14558364 - 06/03/11 11:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ok dont case with the same sub.  What would 100% colonization look like.  These pics seem to pretty much colonized.


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OfflineDionili
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: iceglow]
    #14558383 - 06/03/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

iceglow said:
Ok dont case with the same sub.  What would 100% colonization look like.  These pics seem to pretty much colonized.





Eh you still got ways considering you added another layer of sub, wait till its ALL white. then induce fruiting.


--------------------



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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: Dionili]
    #14562450 - 06/04/11 10:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I disagree with all these people. I been using coir verm as a casing layer on top of substrates for a decade now. Peat/verm is prefered but then you have to mess with lime to get it right.

These days, I make a bunch of coir/verm, save some to the side, and mix the majority with all with my grain spawn. Fill tubs or bags with said mixture, then use the coir/verm I put to the side and put a layer on each tub or bag. Then cover and let colonize for 7-10 days.

Bout then, it looks like yours on top, except a bit more even :smirk:. This is when I give it fruiting conditions.

I really dont care if you call it a substrate layer on top, either way, the top layer is partially colonized when I introduce fruiting. Really, its all about keeping the nutrition (the grain) inside and protected. Coir, verm and peat are all pretty non nutritious, which is why they all make good bulk materials. Less nutritive things colonize quicker.

So OP, to your question. Wait for knots and primordia yes. Make sure it has plenty of air. Stuffed polyfil holes is not enough, pull some out from a couple holes. Leave just enough in so it doesnt dry out. Or crack the lid for a bit each day. Anyway you look at it, they need tons of fresh air. Dont worry so much about filtering it, fresh air will keep mold away. Now that I look back though, you mention you will do this, so good.

Coir dries out quickly too, so maybe a little more verm next time, and make sure you mist frequently, but only to the point where you dont let the casing be drenched. Think of applying a morning dew to the tub, then the sun coming out and drying it up..this is number one pinning trigger.

Other then that, make sure you have a nice bright light, preferably in the 6500k range, CFLs work great. Im sure you'll get a nice flush from these guys again. I predict 3 will be best, and 1 the worst. Just cause.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (06/04/11 11:59 PM)


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InvisibleLayinUp
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14562565 - 06/04/11 11:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Coir, verm and peat are all pretty non nutritious, which is why they all make good bulk materials. Non nutritive things colonize quicker.




Not so sure coir is non nutritious

But with so many opinions, who knows


--------------------


Escape the box.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: LayinUp]
    #14562626 - 06/04/11 11:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Not non nutritious, but PRETTY non nutritious. Meaning mold doesnt find it all that appealing, as opposed to the grain.

If you can keep coir from fully colonizing on top then it does what a casing layer is supposed to: protect from mold, and provide a great place for pins to form. Even if you let it fully colonize it provides both of those protections too.

I'm not here to argue whether its a casing or not..I'm just saying, what the poster did, is fine, and its perfectly fine to let it fruit now. The majority of the block is colonized, thats all you need. Whatever is on top is just there to protect the colonized block underneath.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14565720 - 06/05/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That's old info scatman. I think about 4-5 years ago most people learned that coir is a decent, nutritive substitute for horse manure and it works better as a bulk substrate rather than a casing. I believe the point of a casing layer is to provide a breathable barrier that keeps humidity high for the pins that form beneath it. If you have myc actively colonizing your casing layer, that's not ideal and you're defeating the purpose.

You're a TC, and you've been around for a long time, so I'm not trying to argue with your experience, just saying what I believe is generally accepted these days.


--------------------


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OfflineDionili
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: afrosheen]
    #14565751 - 06/05/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
That's old info scatman. I think about 4-5 years ago most people learned that coir is a decent, nutritive substitute for horse manure and it works better as a bulk substrate rather than a casing. I believe the point of a casing layer is to provide a breathable barrier that keeps humidity high for the pins that form beneath it. If you have myc actively colonizing your casing layer, that's not ideal and you're defeating the purpose.

You're a TC, and you've been around for a long time, so I'm not trying to argue with your experience, just saying what I believe is generally accepted these days.





I agree with this.
much better to use a non nutrisious caseing layer. like peat moss and a little verm. that is what i use.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14566867 - 06/05/11 10:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i agree with him ... but theres a bit of a catch IME ... using a coir verm mix for a casing can be just as effective as using verm/peat so long as you are aware of what stage EXACTLY your grow is in ... once it moves into the consolidation stage for a while its pretty safe to use this mix as the mycelium wont attempt to colonize the coir... instead it will utilize the coir/verm mix just like it would a peat/verm one as a micro-climate and for hydration as it moves into pinning ...


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Offlineiceglow
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: cyantific]
    #14566962 - 06/05/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I started fruiting 2 days ago and already have lots of pins/primordia forming.  Waiting until consolidation has taken place is really key in this whole process.  Some of my PF cakes didn't do so great because I didn't let them consolidate.  All of the monotubs I have done have gone excellent so far because I have given them enough time.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: afrosheen]
    #14567084 - 06/05/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
That's old info scatman. I think about 4-5 years ago most people learned that coir is a decent, nutritive substitute for horse manure and it works better as a bulk substrate rather than a casing. I believe the point of a casing layer is to provide a breathable barrier that keeps humidity high for the pins that form beneath it. If you have myc actively colonizing your casing layer, that's not ideal and you're defeating the purpose.

You're a TC, and you've been around for a long time, so I'm not trying to argue with your experience, just saying what I believe is generally accepted these days.




I'm aware that coir/verm works as a good substrate, and better as a substrate then casing material. What I'm saying is a partially colonized layer of coir/verm on top will help "keep humidity high for the pins to for beneath [or on] it".

If you have myc that completely colonized the top layer of coir and verm, like in your "uncased coir substrates" that will provide even less evaporation then a partially colonized one.

When you spray a surface thats completely colonized the water doesnt absorb much, and then in turn cant evaporate off as much. If there is uncolonized coir/verm on top, it will absorb more moisture, allowing for more evaporation of moisture. Better pinning surface.

Not as good as a good casing material of peat moss and verm. But you can use peat moss/verm as a substrate too. Really most of the nutes come from the grain, the rest is just filler for the mushrooms to colonize and provide the ability to absorb the nutrients.

Basically you want to provide an area that will give good evaporation and protect you from mold. A partially colonized coir/verm surface is pretty resistant to mold given proper fresh air. It is better at providing evaporation, and pinsets, then just putting the layer on and letting it fully colonize.

Coir/verm casings:




Outdated or not, it works as a casing. Of course we learned it also works as a substrate. But why should he cause the top layer to fully colonize? As you said a colonizing casing layer isnt the BEST for holding in moisture, it is gone as a casing layer by the 2nd or 3rd flush, but wouldnt that mean a fully colonized casing layer will hold absorb and evaporate moisture even less?

Just because it works good in one thing, doesnt mean it doesnt work good in both. And yeah, you dont have to..it wont make a big difference, but a casing is still a casing. The main reason coir is a poor casing layer, besides drying out to quickly, is it will colonize completely to quickly, but thats what your goal is before fruiting anyway, I'm just saying give it fruiting conditions when the top layer (whatever you call it) isnt fully colonized.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14567124 - 06/05/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Aha, so like cyantific was saying, throwing a 50/50 coir/verm casing layer on top of a fully colonized tub is the way to go, so it's all about timing. Once the myc is ready to fruit it shouldn't make a big attempt to colonize the casing layer.

I didn't think about the timing because the OP's grow looks like it was there all along due to the way it's colonized. I just may try this on a tub for lulz.


--------------------


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Offlineiceglow
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! Updated. 06/07/11 [Re: iceglow]
    #14572404 - 06/07/11 12:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This was growing in the middle of one of my tubs.


I'm pretty sure that its part of one PF cake I tossed into the mix.  It must have not been broken up enough and went about its own business.  :rofl: Yes its a shroom! :rofl:


A pic of what will hopefully be a beautiful cluster

:rabble:

And lastly one overlooking a good section of a tub.

:eek:

Overall a great looking bunch.  I will keep everyone posted.

-Ice


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: My Three Tubs!!! Updated. 06/07/11 [Re: iceglow]
    #14573523 - 06/07/11 09:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The cake mustve already had that pin on it and stayed attached to a little mycelium body. I've had that happen, tears up some just to dig that sucker out.

But you have alot of knotting going on in those pics too (especially can see them in the third), more pins to come! Uneven flusher (the genetics), but just pick them as they mature, no big deal.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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