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Offlineampakine
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Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 162
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Exercising on opioids
    #14551944 - 06/02/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I seem to have near endless stamina on opioids. Today I ran 8 miles on an eliptical in 25 minutes and didn't feel tired or have sore muscles at all. I am fairly unfit so 8 miles would usually have me exhausted and muscles aching. Since opiates have no adverse effects on the cardiovascular system I'm going to start doing this more often.


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InvisibleEminence
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Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine]
    #14551971 - 06/02/11 05:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

25 miles in 8 minutes? That's less than 3 and a half minutes per mile..if that's true, that's like olympic status running. Crazy.


--------------------




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Offlinemasterharf
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Eminence]
    #14552013 - 06/02/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

fuck steroids, im gonna shoot dope now


--------------------
harf


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Offlinefoliocb
always running
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: masterharf]
    #14552638 - 06/02/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ellipticals aren't accurate, especially when you put the incline factor up all the way. I remember running for an hour or so on an elliptical and it said I ran 7-8 miles in that time... highly unlikely.

Ellipticals are broke :themoreyouknow:


--------------------
^v^


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Offlinedon_vedo
MerKaBa
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Registered: 05/12/11
Posts: 1,383
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: foliocb]
    #14552715 - 06/02/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yah 3 1/2 minutes miles would be ridiculous. Whatever floats your boat though man, if you can get after while on opoids and you enjoy that quality of life, who's to say it's wrong. Follow your heart and you will find your way.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


Edited by don_vedo (06/02/11 09:56 PM)


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OfflineMeowMix96
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 149
Loc: Austin, TX
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine]
    #14552843 - 06/02/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ampakine said:
I seem to have near endless stamina on opioids.




I noticed the same thing the other day while lifting weights.
Opioids really do improve my physical abilities.
Not to mention my mental state as well.
It's awesome. :grin:


--------------------
The road goes on forever and the party never ends......


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: MeowMix96]
    #14553207 - 06/02/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I bet it helps with the pooping.  No, seriously.  Exercise loosens the bowels!


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Invisiblethodub

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 754
Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Maverick]
    #14553289 - 06/02/11 10:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

damn nothing like poppin an opiate after a good workout..shit tickles your brain


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: thodub]
    #14554050 - 06/03/11 02:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good luck keeping your life together.  I really hope you are joking when you say that you are going to incorporate regular opiate use into your exercise routiene.  That is a really bad idea, and contrary to the whole idea of exercise as a means to better your health.


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Offlineampakine
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Eminence]
    #14563789 - 06/05/11 09:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

frylock91 said:
25 miles in 8 minutes? That's less than 3 and a half minutes per mile..if that's true, that's like olympic status running. Crazy.



Shit I must be reading it wrong because theres no way I'm doing olympic status running. It must be kilometres not miles. I'm pretty unfit so I doubt I'm doing any more than the average person would do sober. Its just impressive seeing as its more than twice what I would usually be able to do sober.

Quote:

foliocb said:
Ellipticals aren't accurate, especially when you put the incline factor up all the way. I remember running for an hour or so on an elliptical and it said I ran 7-8 miles in that time... highly unlikely.

Ellipticals are broke :themoreyouknow:



Yeah I remember trying to fast pace jog to my friends house which is about 2 miles and I couldn't even get 1/8 of the way without stopping to rest. The exercise you do on an eliptical isn't like running though its more like a cross between running and cycling.


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OfflineMoxyOx
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #14564151 - 06/05/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Good luck keeping your life together.  I really hope you are joking when you say that you are going to incorporate regular opiate use into your exercise routiene.  That is a really bad idea, and contrary to the whole idea of exercise as a means to better your health.




Get off your high horse. Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? I see tons of people pumping inane amounts of random chemicals into their body like creatine and other shit that really shouldn't be going in there aside from natural means. Opiates are not the devil everyone makes them out to be.


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.


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OfflineNova

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Posts: 1,365
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14564762 - 06/05/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
Get off your high horse. 1) Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? 2) I see tons of people pumping inane amounts of random chemicals into their body like creatine and other shit that really shouldn't be going in there aside from natural means. 3) Opiates are not the devil everyone makes them out to be.




Lol? Are you really this dumb?

1) Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? How about just because it gives you the mental numbness so you can do more doesnt mean your body is somehow magically more capable. You can, or should I say will damage your body by either over working it or simply by breaking/tearing something. Trust me on this. Pain is there to prevent your body from breaking. For example you may be able to run twice as far, but your knees and ankles may be getting raped while you are too numb to notice.

2) Nice try trying to justify it. You must be young. "I see a lot of people doing stupid stuff so its okay for me to do stupid stuff". Brilliant. By the way, taking creatine supplaments isn't on the same level as opiates. Using opiates to exercise is akin to using meth to lose weight.

3) Ah, the grand junky misbelief. Funny how everyone who is just starting an opiate babit says this and literally 100% of people who have developed a habit at some point in time would in fact call them 'the devil' or whatever. But i've seen this enough to know you wont take my word for it.


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Offlinedon_vedo
MerKaBa
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Nova]
    #14565020 - 06/05/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nova said:
1) Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? How about just because it gives you the mental numbness so you can do more doesnt mean your body is somehow magically more capable. You can, or should I say will damage your body by either over working it or simply by breaking/tearing something. Trust me on this. Pain is there to prevent your body from breaking. For example you may be able to run twice as far, but your knees and ankles may be getting raped while you are too numb to notice.




Great way to put it, being exhausted and feeling the pain of the workout is a good indicator that you should stop doing what your doing and give your body time to rest. A lot of people think they can just go about doing as much physical exercise as they want because it's "good for you" like anything else too much can be harmful. Exercise puts stress on the body meaning that if your going to do it you need to give the body equal amounts of rest between workouts. Pushing past a certain point only leads to more breakdown, and you will eventually end up doing what Nova said by breaking or tearing something.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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Offlineampakine
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Registered: 04/23/11
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Nova]
    #14565874 - 06/05/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
Get off your high horse. Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? I see tons of people pumping inane amounts of random chemicals into their body like creatine and other shit that really shouldn't be going in there aside from natural means. Opiates are not the devil everyone makes them out to be.



Couldn't agree with you more. Its clearly out of ignorance that opioids have been demonised so greatly by society. 1st thing many people fail to realise it that drugs affect everyone differently so its silly that people assume a drug can't be used for a certain task simply because they can't use it for that task.

Quote:

Nova said:
Lol? Are you really this dumb?

1) Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? How about just because it gives you the mental numbness so you can do more doesnt mean your body is somehow magically more capable. You can, or should I say will damage your body by either over working it or simply by breaking/tearing something. Trust me on this. Pain is there to prevent your body from breaking. For example you may be able to run twice as far, but your knees and ankles may be getting raped while you are too numb to notice.



Yet another example of someone too ignorant and narrow minded to see the variables involved. Believe it or not opioids do NOT induce "mental numbness" in everyone. With that said how is this even relevant? Empirical evidence overrules opinions based on theory and personal experience. If you perform better on a substance, an effect induced by the drug such as mental numbness is irrelevant. Just because you're less susceptible to pain doesn't mean you're bound to injure yourself by overdoing it the same way a lack of appetite doesn't mean you're bound to starve yourself. All it takes is a bit of discipline and responsibility and the former takes far less discipline because its just a matter of stopping when you see you've done enough. I don't end up with any severe muscle pains, just the usual mild aches if I don't stretch enough so clearly I'm not damaging my body by exercising on opiates. 

Quote:

Nova said:
2) Nice try trying to justify it. You must be young. "I see a lot of people doing stupid stuff so its okay for me to do stupid stuff". Brilliant. By the way, taking creatine supplaments isn't on the same level as opiates. Using opiates to exercise is akin to using meth to lose weight.



There is nothing "stupid" about taking creatine supplements before working out. There may be side effects and the beneficial effects might not be what the person expects but this is the risk we take whenever we ingest a substance. We don't know the exact physiological and psychological changes it will induce. That is a terrible analogy. Taking meth to lose weight works because it severely suppresses the appetite of the person. I don't know all the variables involved in using opioids as an exercise aid but it appears that they help by inducing a more positive mindset, not just by suppressing fatigue and muscle pain. Considering the difference in damage caused by meth compared to opioids, saying this is akin to taking meth to lose weight is ridiculous. The long term effects amphetamines have on the heart and body far outweigh the benefits of weight loss. The same cannot be said for the long term damage caused by opioids vs. the benefits of fitness.

Quote:

Nova said:
3) Ah, the grand junky misbelief. Funny how everyone who is just starting an opiate babit says this and literally 100% of people who have developed a habit at some point in time would in fact call them 'the devil' or whatever. But i've seen this enough to know you wont take my word for it.



Funny how the media as well as media parrots like to portray it like everyone who has been on opioids has developed a negative view of them due to attained wisdom. I know plenty of people that have quit opioids and see it objectively enough to say it as it is. They agree that they are highly addictive but they don't demonise the drug or people who use it. Plenty of people can maintain healthy lifestyles on opioids and use the substances constructively. Maybe someday you'll pull your head out of your ass too and see psychoactive substances for what they are. Tools, the oucome of using which depends entirely on how they are used. Like fire, electricity and all other tools of great power, if used properly can greatly improve the life or the person and their ability to function and if used recklessly and irresponsibly can harm and even kill the person. Opioids are as dangerous as fire and electricity but assuming that only harm can come out of their use is as ridiculous as assuming fire and electricity are inherently bad because many people have hurt themselves and others misusing them. I know I can't control opioids and will rapidly get addicted to them but at the same time I've become completely dependent on electricity, not because it has me enslaved but because without it my life would be void of the benefits and abilities it endows me with.


Edited by ampakine (06/05/11 06:48 PM)


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine]
    #14566243 - 06/05/11 08:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've got enough friends IRL who have had opiate addictions (even lost a friend along the way) to know that it's not the media that makes me believe opiate addiction bad, it's watching other's experiences.


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Offlinedon_vedo
MerKaBa
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Maverick]
    #14566270 - 06/05/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
I've got enough friends IRL who have had opiate addictions (even lost a friend along the way) to know that it's not the media that makes me believe opiate addiction bad, it's watching other's experiences.




Agreed! I have watched countless friends go down the tuber and never come back. Like you Maverick seen a handful of buddies actually lose there lives to the addiction.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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InvisibleMicawber
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: don_vedo]
    #14567087 - 06/05/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

well another reason or two not to make it a habit


1.opiates have been shown to reduce growth hormone response
so you're not recovering as you should.doing this repeatedly
will break you

2.i think any long term user is familiar with the digestion problems of opiates
so its very likely your not absorbing all the nutrients you need to recover
and i dont know about you but if i haven't shit in a week im not going to feel
like having a decent meal



the people rationalizing there use and shooting down others
probly have  nice little problem on the horizon


--------------------
(mik-kaw'-bur) n. one who is poor but lives in optimistic expectation of better fortune:nyan:


Edited by Micawber (06/05/11 11:20 PM)


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Offlinedon_vedo
MerKaBa
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Micawber]
    #14567109 - 06/05/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Micawber said:
the people rationalizing there use and shooting down others
probly have  nice little problem on the horizon




:bender:

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14567611 - 06/06/11 12:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Good luck keeping your life together.  I really hope you are joking when you say that you are going to incorporate regular opiate use into your exercise routiene.  That is a really bad idea, and contrary to the whole idea of exercise as a means to better your health.




Get off your high horse. Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? I see tons of people pumping inane amounts of random chemicals into their body like creatine and other shit that really shouldn't be going in there aside from natural means. Opiates are not the devil everyone makes them out to be.




I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, I don't mean to be a hypocrite as I currently am on buprenorphine which I'll admit does make exercising for me easier.

When I first started using opiates I would sing their praises to everyone that would listen, but now that I've had my fill of them and want off, I have a different attitude about it.  Opiates caused me to be a secretive, manipulative, and selfish person for a long time; I no longer want that. I don't want to depend on opiates for my own happiness.  There was no way I was going to stop until I learned this lesson and even then, it is still not easy.

I consider myself lucky as I have close friends dead, in jail, and living lives that make me very sad and worried.  I thought it was a way I wanted to live, I was very naieve.  Maybe you are different, but if my life went to such shit and I'm one of the lucky ones, I don't think thats saying much for the lifestyle.

By all means if you're going to do opiods anyway, exercise your heart out, just go easy on your body as it can give a false sense of confidence.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/06/11 04:49 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14568187 - 06/06/11 05:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

> Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise?

The biggest risk is self-injury as opiates mask the pain signals which your body produces to warn you that something is wrong, such as a torn muscle.  Opiates also mess with your heart rate, breathing, and the bodies temperature control.  Also, exercise tends to dehydrate the body, which can lead to liver and kidney damage if you have a lot of crap (such as opiates, or even ibuprofen or acetaminophen) in your body.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlineampakine
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #14568193 - 06/06/11 05:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Opiates caused me to be a secretive, manipulative, and selfish person for a long time; I no longer want that. I don't want to depend on opiates for my own happiness.  There was no way I was going to stop until I learned this lesson and even then, it is still not easy.



This is probably the worst thing they do to me. They turn me into a selfish bastard that feels the urge to blame all his problems on others. On top of that he can go into near homicidal rages over very little and he is often very harsh with people who come across as inconsiderate or disrespectful.

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I consider myself lucky as I have close friends dead, in jail, and living lives that make me very sad and worried.  I thought it was a way I wanted to live, I was very naieve.  Maybe you are different, but if my life went to such shit and I'm one of the lucky ones, I don't think thats saying much for the lifestyle.



The junkies I know are regularly in and out of jail but their lives aren't as fucked up as you are describing here. Remember that the lifestyle one adopts to support their habit isn't an intrinsic property of the drug, its an intrinsic property of the society we live in. Heroin and other opiates can be produced as cheaply as table sugar and could be as cheap and abundant as it but the government with their "war on drugs" has seen to it that these substances are scarce and ridiculously expensive. Lots of people don't seem to comprehend this principle. They seem to think that the lifestyle is a result of the drug itself. This is the society we live in though so despite disagreeing with them and trying to convey my opinion on the matter, I heed the warnings of others.

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
By all means if you're going to do opiods anyway, exercise your heart out, just go easy on your body as it can give a false sense of confidence.



Although I doubt your opinion is based on what you've been fed by the media, I think you are stuck in an limiting paradigm. There is no such thing as a false sense of confidence. Confidence is what drives us to overcome what we had up until then thought were our boundaries. Sometimes a change in neurochemistry is all it takes for us to drop a long held self imposed boundary.


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Offlinewellage
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine]
    #14568331 - 06/06/11 07:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Get off the elliptical and go run 8 miles in the hot summer sun and tell me if you do it better on opiates.


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Offlinedon_vedo
MerKaBa
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: wellage]
    #14568566 - 06/06/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wellage said:
Get off the elliptical and go run 8 miles in the hot summer sun and tell me if you do it better on opiates.



:thumbup:

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine] * 1
    #14568591 - 06/06/11 09:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ampakine said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
By all means if you're going to do opiods anyway, exercise your heart out, just go easy on your body as it can give a false sense of confidence.



Although I doubt your opinion is based on what you've been fed by the media, I think you are stuck in an limiting paradigm. There is no such thing as a false sense of confidence. Confidence is what drives us to overcome what we had up until then thought were our boundaries. Sometimes a change in neurochemistry is all it takes for us to drop a long held self imposed boundary.




I think what he means is it makes you over-confident in what you can or can't perform in the idea that you can't feel your muscles going "okay dude, you're about to tear me with that much weight" because the pain receptors don't register like normal.  Just because you aren't feeling the pain doesn't mean you aren't overpushing the limit of your muscles.

Also, being constantly in and out of jail just doesn't sound like much of a good lifestyle.  What's making them go in and out of jail so often? :smirk:  They aren't volunteering for shit, I'll tell you that much.


Edited by Maverick (06/06/11 09:32 AM)


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Invisiblebasqueshaman
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Maverick]
    #14568774 - 06/06/11 10:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

be careful i have to live on opiades half the time because of gout. if ya  relly want to get high and exercise id say eat a gram of meth. loose weight never tire always some hoe around to fuck. thoose are perks, but the down side is woow


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Offlinedon_vedo
MerKaBa
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: basqueshaman] * 1
    #14568805 - 06/06/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Also, being constantly in and out of jail just doesn't sound like much of a good lifestyle.  What's making them go in and out of jail so often? :smirk:  They aren't volunteering for shit, I'll tell you that much.




So I guess that means I can't go sign up somewhere to stay in jail a couple nights a week, damn I was counting on that! :wink:

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.


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OfflineNova

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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine] * 1
    #14569507 - 06/06/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've seen this a million times before. You are developing a taste for opiates and your mind will do anything to rationalize it. You think the bad will never happen to you. You come to depend on them (for mood lift and exercise aid). Use and tolerence goes up. You start having days where you can't get your pre-workout opiate and you realize you can't function without it anymore and actually feel way worse without them now.

Go read up on some posts in ODD such as the 'warning to newbies concerning opiates'. You'll see there is a very curious trend...

Anyways heres some quick responses:
#1
Quote:

Yet another example of someone too ignorant and narrow minded to see the variables involved. Believe it or not opioids do NOT induce "mental numbness" in everyone. With that said how is this even relevant? Empirical evidence overrules opinions based on theory and personal experience. If you perform better on a substance, an effect induced by the drug such as mental numbness is irrelevant. Just because you're less susceptible to pain doesn't mean you're bound to injure yourself by overdoing it the same way a lack of appetite doesn't mean you're bound to starve yourself. All it takes is a bit of discipline and responsibility and the former takes far less discipline because its just a matter of stopping when you see you've done enough. I don't end up with any severe muscle pains, just the usual mild aches if I don't stretch enough so clearly I'm not damaging my body by exercising on opiates. 




I don't know what to say, you completely missed the point. By mental numbness I meant unnaturally high pain threshold. There is nothing opinion about that, they are pain killers, I dont see how this is personal experience or my opinion. The empirical evidence is that opiates cause destructive addiction but you ignore that for your personal experience. You say just because it can happen doesnt mean it will, thats a pretty weak argument considering all the warning people have given you. Then you say something about responsibility and discipline. Ask any long term opiate user what effect opiates had on their responsibility and discipline.

#2 : The point of the meth analogy was because meth addiction is a high price to pay for losing weight. Opiate addiction is a high price to pay for an exercise aid. Yes yes, I know you won't get addicted but the point is there is a big risk playing with a dangerous substance and for what? You dont need it to workout. Hell some good music goes a long way when exercising to give you the same ability to push harder than you normally would.

#3 Others have already chimed in on this. You know plently of people who have quit? Well then why did they quit if it was so great? Ok so opiates are a tool, well I dont think you understand all the aspects of the tool. Tolerence and dependence is a part of the tool. That right there tells you it is unsustainable. And then there are less evident qualities such as the effect it has on very powerful primal areas of the brain (reward centers). So with this in mind is it still worth risking all so you can run a bit further? Or are you just rationalizing because you're acquiring a taste for them? As for your last sentence, you can view everything as an addiction. You just have to weigh the risks. Going without electricity is not the same as going without opiates. I hope for your sake you don't have to learn this the hard way.

Quote:

The junkies I know are regularly in and out of jail but their lives aren't as fucked up as you are describing here.


. Comeon, you can't be serious with this one.

Why do you assume we are all influenced by the media? Maybe i'll assume you work for the makers of oxycontin. And false sense of confidence means temporarily heightened confidence, temporary and hence false. See you are not viewing the whole span of time around things, only looking at the immediate.
Quote:

Sometimes a change in neurochemistry is all it takes for us to drop a long held self imposed boundary.


. This is just plain wrong. You body has physical limitations. People push their bodys too far and get injured or even die all the time.


Edited by Nova (06/06/11 01:44 PM)


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Nova] * 1
    #14569865 - 06/06/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

brb smashing my deadlift record on opiates.
brb once they wear off I notice I have 3 herniated discs.


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #14569893 - 06/06/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Champion des Champignons said:
brb smashing my deadlift record on opiates.
brb once they wear off I notice I have 3 herniated discs.



:lolsy:

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: don_vedo]
    #14570130 - 06/06/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Do you really think you have this all figured out and we are just in the dark here?

We all know that many more problems are caused by the drug war than the drugs themselves, but that isn't an excuse to ignore the negative consequences drugs can cause on their own.  I thought I could handle opiates, I was wrong.  The people who do not get totally fucked up by them in my experience are those who give them the respect and caution that they deserve.  I do not think they are without their use, especially in the area of pain control, but as an exercise-aid, that is just ridiculous.  You are acting a bit arrogant, which is a common effect of opiates as well as many other drugs.  We have all been guilty of this at times.

Don't think I am judging you because I have been where you are; people talked to me like I am talking to you and I was not able to fully appreciate what they were saying until I saw it myself.  Part of me does even wants to agree with you, but mostly I am worried for you, please take care and use your head :heart:


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #14575498 - 06/07/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nova said:
I've seen this a million times before. You are developing a taste for opiates and your mind will do anything to rationalize it.



Yeah thats a possibility. At the same time I no longer smoke weed because it induces some extremely negative effects in me but I have nothing against cannabis and I'll argue against people who try to demonise it. Thats not my mind trying to rationalise it, thats just me sticking up for my beliefs.

Quote:

Nova said:
You think the bad will never happen to you. You come to depend on them (for mood lift and exercise aid). Use and tolerence goes up. You start having days where you can't get your pre-workout opiate and you realize you can't function without it anymore and actually feel way worse without them now.



I know the bad will happen to me. Depletion of opioid receptors from long term use and withdrawals are inevitabilities I'm not disputing that.

Quote:

Nova said:
I don't know what to say, you completely missed the point. By mental numbness I meant unnaturally high pain threshold. There is nothing opinion about that, they are pain killers, I dont see how this is personal experience or my opinion. The empirical evidence is that opiates cause destructive addiction but you ignore that for your personal experience. You say just because it can happen doesnt mean it will, thats a pretty weak argument considering all the warning people have given you. Then you say something about responsibility and discipline. Ask any long term opiate user what effect opiates had on their responsibility and discipline.




Ironically enough, you completely missed my point. I said that just because opioids induce mental numbness in some people doesn't mean they don't improve ones ability to do physical exercise. I don't have empirical evidence for that because opioids don't induce mental numbness in me but I'm sure there are people who do. I do have evidence that opioids improve my ability to do physical exercise though. Opioids don't act as analgesics for everyone. I'm living proof of that. I was prescribed hydromorphone after I had metal pins inserted in my hand to help heal a fracture and I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that the drug did nothing to alleviate the pain. That was before I had ever done opioids so I didn't have a tolerance. I took the highest dose I could before going into OD range but it did absolutely nothing to numb the pain. Cannabis on the other hand got rid of the pain completely. What I was saying won't necessarily happen is injuring your muscles exercising on opiates. Nothing else.

Quote:

Nova said:
#2 : The point of the meth analogy was because meth addiction is a high price to pay for losing weight. Opiate addiction is a high price to pay for an exercise aid. Yes yes, I know you won't get addicted but the point is there is a big risk playing with a dangerous substance and for what? You dont need it to workout. Hell some good music goes a long way when exercising to give you the same ability to push harder than you normally would.



Yeah it was actually a pretty good analogy because amphetamines do make the process of losing weight a whole lot easier for some people but the part that doesn't coincide is the side effects. Meth is far more harmful than your average opioid so its not the same thing at all. Addiction is one of the things thats pretty much gauranteed if you use them regularly. I'm not disputing that. In fact I'm fairly sure I'm mentally addicted to opioids right now if not physically addicted. Is that really a hefty price to pay though? Being dependant on opioids doesn't really bother me. If (or when) I find myself unable to obtain them I'll be forced to go through withdrawal which is exceptionally harsh when it comes to opioids and I accept that. Yep music is definitely a useful tool for exercising. The right music gets me all riled up which makes it easier to overcome my self imposed limitations.

Quote:

Nova said:
#3 Others have already chimed in on this. You know plently of people who have quit? Well then why did they quit if it was so great?



I haven't really questioned them heavily about it but I'm fairly sure inability to support the habit played a large role in it. Most of them relapse and get back on it from time to time. They all rely/relied on illegal activities to support their habit and as a result they've all gone to jail at least once over their habit.

Quote:

Nova said:
Ok so opiates are a tool, well I dont think you understand all the aspects of the tool. Tolerence and dependence is a part of the tool. That right there tells you it is unsustainable. And then there are less evident qualities such as the effect it has on very powerful primal areas of the brain (reward centers).



Yep all tools have their flaws. Some are more dangerous than others. Unsustainability thats the main problem with using most drugs as tools. Due to their cost and side effects, a habit of using them regularly is rarely sustainable. As for effects these drugs have on the primitive parts of the brain, theres definitely potential for severe side effects there but that risk is associated with all psychoactive substances. Is that risk worth completely avoiding psychoactive substances over? Does they outweight the beneficial effects they induce. For the 1st question I will always answer no but for the 2nd question the answer depends on the substance in question and in the case of opioids I'd say no.

Quote:

Nova said:
So with this in mind is it still worth risking all so you can run a bit further? Or are you just rationalizing because you're acquiring a taste for them? As for your last sentence, you can view everything as an addiction. You just have to weigh the risks. Going without electricity is not the same as going without opiates. I hope for your sake you don't have to learn this the hard way.



In my opinion yes, if I thought otherwise I wouldn't take them. As for going without opioids when your physically addicted, I hope I don't go through that either but given the unsustainability of an opioid habit, its probably inevitable that I will.

Quote:

Nova said:
Why do you assume we are all influenced by the media? Maybe i'll assume you work for the makers of oxycontin. And false sense of confidence means temporarily heightened confidence, temporary and hence false. See you are not viewing the whole span of time around things, only looking at the immediate.




Its pretty hard to avoid being influenced by people whos job it is to influence you. We influence each other all the time whether we intend to or not and whether we're aware of it or not. In my experience what makes one unsusceptible to viral beliefs are having knowledge which refutes/overrules the ideas. Skepticism and cynicism will make one less prone to the more superficial and up front forms or it but its all on the conscious level, a lot of it is directed at the subconcious. I know I'm highly susceptible to influence and I'm never aware of it until I gain some knowledge which refutes a particular exogenous idea/belief. The problem with your idea of temporarily heightened confidence being false confidence is that you assume there to be some kind of natural baseline for confidence. If your confidence has been permanently lowered by a head injury (or other permanent alteration in brain functioning) then would drug induced increase in confidence be false confidence? The fact of the matter is we have our sense of confidence altered every day not just by our experiences but by ideas we pick up from others. These beliefs aren't necessarily valid ones but they still alter our confidence. With that in mind you could say we all have a false level of confidence to begin with.

Quote:

Nova said:
. This is just plain wrong. You body has physical limitations. People push their bodys too far and get injured or even die all the time.




Yeah but our bodies physical limitations and what we believe to be its limitations are 2 different things.


Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Do you really think you have this all figured out and we are just in the dark here?



No but just because my beliefs aren't shared by everyone doesn't mean they're wrong. Copernicuses beliefs weren't very popular in his time. I don't have it all figured out but maybe for one reason or another I have some pieces of the puzzle that you don't have and its these pieces that bring me to see things the way I do. Maybe its the other way around and you have pieces that I don't have.

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:You are acting a bit arrogant, which is a common effect of opiates as well as many other drugs.  We have all been guilty of this at times.

Don't think I am judging you because I have been where you are; people talked to me like I am talking to you and I was not able to fully appreciate what they were saying until I saw it myself.  Part of me does even wants to agree with you, but mostly I am worried for you, please take care and use your head :heart:



Sorry about that. I feel like I'm being condescended by people who assume I'm incapable of comprehending the side effects of opioid use due to naivety so as a defense mechanism I assume that these people are brainwashed in areas I'm not and this is what gives them the illusion that they know better than I do. I know that the people on this forum are talking out of experience rather than mindlessly parroting off the ideas they've been fed but at the same time ones stance can still be heavily influenced by idea(s) that are not their own despite these people being free thinkers that consciously reject the attempts of others to get them to accept beliefs. Moral and ideas are often trojaned past ones mental firewall and since they can't be consciously rejected, the only defense against them is to attain knowledge which highlights the erroneous nature of the idea and refutes it. Heres what I think may be the case: Maybe there are drug related morals which are packaged with ideas that highlight the stupidity of the extreme anti drug stance. Because the moral is packaged this way it is not rejected by people experienced and knowledgeable to see through the blatant bullshit (the kinda crap they feed kids). Various well known truths are attached to the morals in such a way that the morals are presented as "wisdom". In this case more knowledgeable and experienced people adopt will be far more likely to adopt these morals firstly because the truths attached give the moral more credibility and secondly because its presented as wisdom it will be more appealing since everyone wants wisdom. Thats the first time I've translated that thought into words, my god it took a lot of them lol. That might all be my minds elaborate way of rationalising what I want to believe but then again it might not be.

Anyhow cheers for the consideration and not condescending me for beleiving what seem to be something only the naive and inexperienced could believe. Since you didn't trigger my defense mechanisms you got your point across. I'll heed your warning.

EDIT: ^^ Fuckin hell I'm talking like some kinda psychologist. Its all that NLP I've been reading about lately. Anyone who hasn't heard of it I recommend looking into it, its some interesting shit.


Edited by ampakine (06/07/11 08:44 PM)


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OfflineMoxyOx
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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: ampakine]
    #14575891 - 06/07/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, what an astonishing outcry this topic received from everyone.

I'm just going to chime in real quickly and say one minor thing. I don't take large doses of opiates when I exercise nor do I think the OP does either, my intention is not to become supermaned out of my fuckin' mind and lift trees out of the ground. Rather a small dose helps me understand the sensation I should be aiming for when I exercise, almost like what my runner's high should come out to feel like. It's not so much that I use the drug to push myself beyond my limits, but rather to gauge at what intensity I should be exercising and when it IS necessary to stop.

Personally, I prefer opiates to improve my workouts compared to all other drugs. Well... mushrooms excluded. I do get God head on them and can do some pretty crazy things
:awetongue:


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Edited by MoxyOx (06/07/11 06:24 PM)


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #14576244 - 06/07/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

MoxyOx said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Good luck keeping your life together.  I really hope you are joking when you say that you are going to incorporate regular opiate use into your exercise routiene.  That is a really bad idea, and contrary to the whole idea of exercise as a means to better your health.




Get off your high horse. Whats wrong with using opiates for exercise? I see tons of people pumping inane amounts of random chemicals into their body like creatine and other shit that really shouldn't be going in there aside from natural means. Opiates are not the devil everyone makes them out to be.




I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, I don't mean to be a hypocrite as I currently am on buprenorphine which I'll admit does make exercising for me easier.

When I first started using opiates I would sing their praises to everyone that would listen, but now that I've had my fill of them and want off, I have a different attitude about it.  Opiates caused me to be a secretive, manipulative, and selfish person for a long time; I no longer want that. I don't want to depend on opiates for my own happiness.  There was no way I was going to stop until I learned this lesson and even then, it is still not easy.

I consider myself lucky as I have close friends dead, in jail, and living lives that make me very sad and worried.  I thought it was a way I wanted to live, I was very naieve.  Maybe you are different, but if my life went to such shit and I'm one of the lucky ones, I don't think thats saying much for the lifestyle.

By all means if you're going to do opiods anyway, exercise your heart out, just go easy on your body as it can give a false sense of confidence.





one could argue that the fact that they make you 'secretive, manipulative, and selfish' is because of the fact that they are illegal and hard to get. If opiates were openly availble do you really think such things would occur? I think the negative lifestyles associated with opiates is mostly due to the legalities surrounding such things. In no way am I saying a opiate habit is GLORIOUS, but I'm saying opiates can be used recreationally and even abused safely and done habitually without becoming a numb tool that hates everyone and will steal my mothers gold fillings to fix my fill.

Asfar as excersizing with opiates, I've had some experience on opiates and extensive physical activity. One thing I notice is agitation and irritability. I notice I get kinda cranky after doing intense things. For me I get my excersize from skateboarding/rock&tree climbing. I'm not entirely sure if this is because of the opiates but its just an observation. Also, I seem to perspire alot more when I'm opiates and doing heavy things, not to mention as already stated the fact that you can hurt yourself and not feel it, but to be honest, I still feel pain while on opiates. I guess this would all depend on tolerance and the dose of which opiate you are indulging. To say anyone who does any opiate is going to be COMPLETELY NUMB that they wont feel stretching your groin or something is horrible flawd. Unless you are shooting up fat scoops of dope or sniffing a pile of pilldust then perhaps you wont feel a thing. The thing you need to realize if you are that HIGH and you are nodding all over yourself the chances of you moving around enough to hurt yourself is HIGHLY unlikely.


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: snoot]
    #14578308 - 06/08/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This thread is getting outta hand, I only posted because it sounded as if the OP was not giving opiates the respect and caution they deserve.  If he had said 'I am going to exercise on opiates because I enjoy it, but I am going to space out my doses, and keep my tolerance in check' I would not be so worried.  As I've said I was and continue to be an opiate addict and at one point I believed that opiates were making my life better. 

Here is a little story, maybe it will help others to understand where I am coming from:

I had been addicted to oxycontin for a while, not sure how long but long enough that I was hurting without it, but not fully sick.  My dude was out of those but he offered me something stronger.  I was a bit disappointed, as I wanted the OC, but I took it and dosed up, getting as high as I had ever been. 

I wrote a paper that I had been putting off in the hours before class, enjoying every minute of the usually agonizing process.  I went to class all high and shit, handed in the paper, and later found out that not only did I get an 'A', my teacher entered it into a writing contest ang I won $50.  They had taken control of my life to some degree before this point, but this incident stands out to me as when I really started to think I that opiates could help me be a better person.  I didn't have great connects or funds, but I slowly started devoting more and more time and money to this aspect of my life.

I was convinced that 'the establishment' had it wrong and was out to get me, using this as an excuse to keep my addiction to myself.  I even resented ex-users to some extent, viewing them as traitors to my cause.  I had done my research, and knew what I was doing.  I thought that since I was aware of what was happening, I could control it.

I started dong some stronger opioids, soon no amount of OC I could afford will even touch me. My life proceeded to get worse.  Very quicky I stopped enjoying what I was doing and attempted to escalate my dose, what else could I do, I felt my life would be shit without them.  I soon find that there is nothing between not enough and too much.  Inch by inch that line I would not cross was pushed back until I realized that I hated who I was, and my life was in shambles. Having no ways to cope with this other than drug use I gave up for a while and wallowed in my own self-pity until I was able to finally lose the mentality that opiates are a good thing.

Now I am in the process of tapering down on Suboxone, though honestly I have been hesitating on dropping my dose below 3mg/day. Hoping to be off by the end of the summer, or at least the end of the year, I want off so badly but dopesickness fucking sucks and I've got a job and some other activities I just need it for right now :shrug:

Sorry to ramble on, I like to talk about myself.  I hope that if you are going to do opiates, you will not make the same mistake as me in thinking that you need opiates to reach your full potential in life.  I would say that maybe it could be a worthwhile experience, trying opiates, as I learned a whole lot about myself and the world, but I can't help but feel lucky, and I really miss some of the people that this drug took from the world...:sad:


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/08/11 05:16 AM)


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #14580555 - 06/08/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
This thread is getting outta hand, I only posted because it sounded as if the OP was not giving opiates the respect and caution they deserve.  If he had said 'I am going to exercise on opiates because I enjoy it, but I am going to space out my doses, and keep my tolerance in check' I would not be so worried.  As I've said I was and continue to be an opiate addict and at one point I believed that opiates were making my life better. 

Here is a little story, maybe it will help others to understand where I am coming from:

I had been addicted to oxycontin for a while, not sure how long but long enough that I was hurting without it, but not fully sick.  My dude was out of those but he offered me something stronger.  I was a bit disappointed, as I wanted the OC, but I took it and dosed up, getting as high as I had ever been. 

I wrote a paper that I had been putting off in the hours before class, enjoying every minute of the usually agonizing process.  I went to class all high and shit, handed in the paper, and later found out that not only did I get an 'A', my teacher entered it into a writing contest ang I won $50.  They had taken control of my life to some degree before this point, but this incident stands out to me as when I really started to think I that opiates could help me be a better person.  I didn't have great connects or funds, but I slowly started devoting more and more time and money to this aspect of my life.

I was convinced that 'the establishment' had it wrong and was out to get me, using this as an excuse to keep my addiction to myself.  I even resented ex-users to some extent, viewing them as traitors to my cause.  I had done my research, and knew what I was doing.  I thought that since I was aware of what was happening, I could control it.

I started dong some stronger opioids, soon no amount of OC I could afford will even touch me. My life proceeded to get worse.  Very quicky I stopped enjoying what I was doing and attempted to escalate my dose, what else could I do, I felt my life would be shit without them.  I soon find that there is nothing between not enough and too much.  Inch by inch that line I would not cross was pushed back until I realized that I hated who I was, and my life was in shambles. Having no ways to cope with this other than drug use I gave up for a while and wallowed in my own self-pity until I was able to finally lose the mentality that opiates are a good thing.

Now I am in the process of tapering down on Suboxone, though honestly I have been hesitating on dropping my dose below 3mg/day. Hoping to be off by the end of the summer, or at least the end of the year, I want off so badly but dopesickness fucking sucks and I've got a job and some other activities I just need it for right now :shrug:

Sorry to ramble on, I like to talk about myself.  I hope that if you are going to do opiates, you will not make the same mistake as me in thinking that you need opiates to reach your full potential in life.  I would say that maybe it could be a worthwhile experience, trying opiates, as I learned a whole lot about myself and the world, but I can't help but feel lucky, and I really miss some of the people that this drug took from the world...:sad:





How much suboxone do you take daily? how much did you first start taking? When? If I was ever on such a program I would defintely try to ween myself off, or talk to the dr and work together. It just seems to me like alot of those programs get you stuck., and you become addicted to suboxone and the dr's seem to keep you on a maintaince schedule and they will let you off when they deem fit. Just an observation about local drs it seems. I've seen some folks on suboxone/methadone for years and years, and they elevate doses after awhile , it makes no sense to me. I understand the induction program where they start you small and work u up to that dose that makes you normal. It just seems sometimes that they milk it out, I'm not sure if there is some incentive or benefit to them for having people on suboxone but sometimes it just seems this way, as if they are kinda glad you are addicted to their drugs and not street drugs.

I understand that it usually takes along time to become addicted, and so it should take along time to get straight, I personally dont think it should take more then 6-10months to get off suboxone, weening you down say 1/4 dose everything few months, gradually.

How do you feel about such things?


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: snoot]
    #14580822 - 06/08/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the bupe racket.  I know it is a fucked up system at the moment, and I greatly resent many of the doctors out there as well as the pharm company running the show.  On the other hand, I've been able to use it in a way that has allowed me to start to get my life on track, I think Bupe has benefits for long-term users compared to other opiates, a major one being that it can be obtained legally, but it also has many drawbacks.

I won't hijack this thread any more, I will say that aside from bupe, exercise has been maybe the #1 thing that makes me feel OK day to day. I would encourage it, high or not.  When I say to be careful, I am speaking in terms of some degenerative issues, such as my shitty knee, which are greatly masked on opiates.  Just be aware, as I get older these things play a major part in how I exercise, as there is nothing healthy about pushing yourself too hard.  If you are able to manage an addiction to a full-agonist opiate and and exercise routiene at the same time, you are more determined than me, and should be giving me advice :wink:


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Re: Exercising on opioids [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #14580966 - 06/08/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:feelsgoodman:


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