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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: SlashOZ]
#14555454 - 06/03/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said: This is very close to the idea of Christ dieing for our sins.
No it's not. Jesus preached peace (despite the fact that his religion has been used to justify murder through the centuries), he didn't kill for our sins.
Everyone acts like soldiers are the victims in a war scenario, as though they're so heroic for "dying for us." What about the fact that they're killing for us, too? What about the fact that they signed up to kill human beings for a government paycheck?
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: NetDiver]
#14555660 - 06/03/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
SlashOZ said: This is very close to the idea of Christ dieing for our sins.
No it's not. Jesus preached peace (despite the fact that his religion has been used to justify murder through the centuries), he didn't kill for our sins.
Everyone acts like soldiers are the victims in a war scenario, as though they're so heroic for "dying for us." What about the fact that they're killing for us, too? What about the fact that they signed up to kill human beings for a government paycheck?
Honoring soldiers is exactly like believing in Christ.
Christ died for our sins so that we may gain eternal life(read metaphorically we gain love and forgiveness for our sins).
Soldiers died for us so we may live in a self-determined country free from any outside oppression/rule.
Soldiers and Christ make a sacrifice both physically and symbolically.
We are redeemed by their actions both physically and symbolically. Soldiers fought so we didn't have to and Christ paid for our sins so we don't have to. They are our stand in so we can receive the benefits of their actions.
By accepting Christ into our lives or honoring soldiers we are making the logical move of saying that we are one in the same with the soldiers who fought for us or Christ who suffered for us.
In other words there is nothing different from waving an american flag on memorial day or the 4th of july than there is from taking communion in church or being baptized.
The OP is making the same logical move as denying Christ when he denies soldiers any respect or reverence for serving.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: SlashOZ]
#14555669 - 06/03/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dear Buffalo Soldiers:
Thanks you for slaughtering the Native American peoples so that I may live in suburbia.
Amen.
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Dear Buffalo Soldiers:
Thanks you for slaughtering the Native American peoples so that I may live in suburbia.
Amen.
If they had killed all them we wouldn't feel bad about the survivors we have now.

White guilt ftw!
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Icelander]
#14556547 - 06/03/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Watch this and you might change your mind but hold on to your hat.
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Gallipoli/70086000?trkid=2430625#height1933
Quote:
Never knew there were worse things than dying,
Edited by falcon (06/03/11 06:36 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,466
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 7 minutes
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There is a huge difference between killing, and murdering. Being a disabled vet (there is a stigma even saying that) I have tried to rectify..or challenge my beliefs that led me to war.
without the boring details...it does come up as inevitable: war in the past...war in the future. War is old men talking and young men dying.
No matter who you slice it, humans can be quite nasty to one another. I say this not to be a dick... but the courage and the clarity of the untested have always been somewhat trivial to me (some would retort, those of the tested as well)
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14557872 - 06/03/11 09:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are many types of courage and many types of tests. Can't say that risking one's life to take anothers is the utmost test of being a man or of being human.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: SlashOZ]
#14558491 - 06/04/11 12:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said: Honoring soldiers is exactly like believing in Christ.
Christ died for our sins so that we may gain eternal life(read metaphorically we gain love and forgiveness for our sins).
Soldiers died for us so we may live in a self-determined country free from any outside oppression/rule.
Soldiers and Christ make a sacrifice both physically and symbolically.
We are redeemed by their actions both physically and symbolically. Soldiers fought so we didn't have to and Christ paid for our sins so we don't have to. They are our stand in so we can receive the benefits of their actions.
By accepting Christ into our lives or honoring soldiers we are making the logical move of saying that we are one in the same with the soldiers who fought for us or Christ who suffered for us.
In other words there is nothing different from waving an american flag on memorial day or the 4th of july than there is from taking communion in church or being baptized.
The OP is making the same logical move as denying Christ when he denies soldiers any respect or reverence for serving.
Okay, you completely ignored the point I made. Here it is again:
Soldiers kill people for a government paycheck. Jesus did not.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,466
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 7 minutes
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: NetDiver]
#14559855 - 06/04/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Though shall not murder.
not
Though shall not kill.
there is a difference in my humble opinion.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,466
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 7 minutes
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War has many facets.....killing someone is not the only one. There is a high degree of being selfless.. .and enduring physical,emotional, and spiritual hardships.....take for instance...a field surgeon who must save peoples lives on the field.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: SirTripAlot]
#14559936 - 06/04/11 12:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Though shall not murder.
not
Though shall not kill.
there is a difference in my humble opinion.
Just started a thread on this (not a spin-off) before reading your post. Every killer feels justified. Murder is always a judgement on a killer by a third party, not his /her self analysis.
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