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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Memorial Day Deep Thoughts * 1
    #14551419 - 06/02/11 05:33 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Not one person gave their life for me. Not the Minutemen at Lexington; not the Union soldiers at Gettysburg; not the dough boys who were gassed in trenches in WWI; not the parachuters on D-Day who were machine-gunned before hitting the ground in WWII nor the Marines at Iwo Jima who raised the flag; not those who held the DMZ in Korea; not the drafted casualties who bled out in the jungles of Viet Nam; not those who protected the Kuwaiti Royal Family in Desert Storm, and certainly not those invaders who drove over IDEs in Iraq.

Just sayin': thanks for nothing.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (06/04/11 02:40 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14551441 - 06/02/11 05:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Course not. They gave their life because they felt they had to, to maintain their status within the tribe. We all do similiar kinds of shit. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4896744
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Icelander]
    #14551470 - 06/02/11 05:44 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Either that or they fucked up in high school and needed the discipline/benefits.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: 4896744]
    #14551874 - 06/02/11 07:18 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I think I would have felt strongly about defending against the Nazis had I been in WW2 for reasons beyond maintaining tribe status. I think most of the men fought because Hitlers regime would have been terrifying for them and the future of europe. Perhaps this doesn't apply for the soldjers in the American aid idk (very possible it does but I can't comment on their psychology going in to it as I have no grasp of history) but for any europeans who stopped the nazi's I can say I do believe they died, (at least in part) for us.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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Just chat your fraff
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14551904 - 06/02/11 07:24 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Watch this and you might change your mind but hold on to your hat.

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Gallipoli/70086000?trkid=2430625#height1933


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Icelander]
    #14551930 - 06/02/11 07:29 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Give me the gist of it and why you think I'm wrong, I am interested to hear what you got to say on it so don't just link me to netflix vid this time ( besides we don't have it in europe).


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14551960 - 06/02/11 07:38 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Fuck Europe.

any way this battle in WWII is about as ugly of a thing as I've ever heard about in all my time watching this shit.  Beyond belief ugly and deadly with bodies piling up so you couldn't take a step without walking on a rotting corpse. In the fly filled trenches everyone had disentary  and was shitting 16 times a day with no toilet paper. Flies covered everything and were on the dead bodies and then on the human feces and then landed on the food but there was so many they couldn't be brushed off. Hundreds and thousands were dying daily with no ground gained and this went on and on for months and everyone on both sides knew it was useless and meaning less.  (from diaries, many prayed for an enemy bullet to end their suffering but none of them could stand up and say "fuck this I quit".  They would rather die or suffer horribly than the shame of being seen as a coward or lesser than their comrades and not patriotic.  Many went crazy.

If you could watch the documentary you'd get the full impact of that madness. I thought I'd seen it all but I was fucking stunned.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Icelander]
    #14552011 - 06/02/11 07:49 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Fuck Europe.




Well I agree on a general and netflixian front. :lol:

Quote:


any way this battle in WWII is about as ugly of a thing as I've ever heard about in all my time watching this shit.  Beyond belief ugly and deadly with bodies piling up so you couldn't take a step without walking on a rotting corpse. In the fly filled trenches everyone had disentary  and was shitting 16 times a day with no toilet paper. Flies covered everything and were on the dead bodies and then on the human feces and then landed on the food but there was so many they couldn't be brushed off. Hundreds and thousands were dying daily with no ground gained and this went on and on for months and everyone on both sides knew it was useless and meaning less.  (from diaries, many prayed for an enemy bullet to end their suffering but none of them could stand up and say "fuck this I quit".  They would rather die or suffer horribly than the shame of being seen as a coward or lesser than their comrades and not patriotic.  Many went crazy.

If you could watch the documentary you'd get the full impact of that madness. I thought I'd seen it all but I was fucking stunned.




In the actual trench scenario it's most likely that many would have lost their beliefs on anything and would have been concerened with nothing but day to day survival.

Where I cannot agree is when you say the war was futile on both fronts. Sure the Nazi sides part of it was definetly ridiculous and downright dumb. From the rest of europes perspective it was the freedoms and liberties of the people that were being challenged. I could point you to any death camp video to back this up and really feel it goes without saying that there was a good and solid reason behind those men fighting that war.

Had they not fought the war and won you would quite likely be watching some far more horrifying videos today.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14552252 - 06/02/11 08:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Look, I'm not going to say my initial post is the only reason but I'm holding ground on that it is a main reason or the main reason.

Any honest person in the Military will tell you how powerful peer pressure is in what goes on in battle.

Having said that I'm glad the US got in the war against the Japs and Germs.  Had we not some even nastier fuckers would be running things.  I have no regrets on anything the US inflicted on the Germs and Japs including the civilian populations.  I do feel sorry for the children however but the fact is that children grow into adults and those cultures were cultures that wanted to dominate others.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Icelander]
    #14552284 - 06/02/11 08:51 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I agree but how can you say you are glad the US got in the war and simultaneously say that you would not have done the same for reasons beyond peer pressure? I can understand and empathize with you saying you wouldn't have done the same for fear based reasons but otherwise it seems like a contradiction to me.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offline4896744
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14552331 - 06/02/11 09:03 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I agree but how can you say you are glad the US got in the war and simultaneously say that you would not have done the same for reasons beyond peer pressure? I can understand and empathize with you saying you wouldn't have done the same for fear based reasons but otherwise it seems like a contradiction to me.




Because Ice realizes the benefit of selfishness.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: 4896744]
    #14552354 - 06/02/11 09:10 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9532859#9532859

Also I could edit that post to say fear based/selfish reasons. Which, again I empathize with.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14552482 - 06/02/11 09:37 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

This guy was having some "deep thoughts".  Or something like that.



I agree with him Fuck the Storm Troopers in their black boots.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: 4896744]
    #14552515 - 06/02/11 09:48 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I agree but how can you say you are glad the US got in the war and simultaneously say that you would not have done the same for reasons beyond peer pressure? I can understand and empathize with you saying you wouldn't have done the same for fear based reasons but otherwise it seems like a contradiction to me.




Because Ice realizes the benefit of selfishness.





Right, This world is not my creation and I bare no allegiance to it.  I do what is best for me. 

I was talking to a friend about this the other night.  Had I had a tribe that would have been at war with the Japs and Germs I would have exterminated them to the last person except for children that could be reprogrammed.  All there land would become my country.  I would never attack them to take what territory they occupied and if they want to do it to me they would find out I don't see it as a game of politics. They would never have the chance to do me harm again.

Hows that for nasty. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: Icelander]
    #14552805 - 06/02/11 11:12 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Editor's note: Both Icey and Looney are of German heritage.


Sieg Meow!


--------------------


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14552948 - 06/02/11 11:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Editor's note: Both Icey and Looney are of German heritage.


Sieg Meow!






--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14553880 - 06/03/11 03:03 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Please stop with the cute cat videos.


Please!


--------------------


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14554435 - 06/03/11 08:50 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Please stop with the cute cat videos.


Please!




You got it.  Are you going to choose the miracle?



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14554732 - 06/03/11 11:06 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Some of them may have thought they were dying for peace, but how many thought they were dying for a future with more war?


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: Memorial Day Deep Thoughts [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14555003 - 06/03/11 12:57 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

The OP was obviously meant to shock me into questioning any preconceived notions of memorial day that I may have.

In contrast, the documentary that Ice linked us to confronts us with the brutality of war. What this documentary and any accurate depiction/conception of war does is to make us confront war in a way that is much more profound than the OP.

Both of these posts draw distinctions. The OP draws a distinction between itself and the rest of the world and veterans in particular. Ice's link shows us a line of distinction in the form of war between nation states. It also shows us a distinction between veteran and non veteran with the horrors of war.

In remembering what our veterans had to endure in battle I think Americans are confronted with the meaninglessness of war and the understanding that it should be avoided at all costs. The very act of honoring veterans BECAUSE we are not them shows this. We don't want to be in the military or go to battle but it sure is nice to know that we have a stand in that will go in our place. This is very close to the idea of Christ dieing for our sins. By honoring veterans (this parallels living in Christ for Christians) we are able to take ownership of something we did not earn. The act of honoring veterans is like communion in church, we are becoming one with veterans on memorial day.

So to conclude, the problem is not that we are identifying with veterans on memorial day but rather the problem is that we are not identifying with everyone everyday. Above all we should avoid identifying only with ourselves since this allows even friends and family to become enemies.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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