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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550733 - 06/02/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont know if you are aware, but you are just making things up.  Physicists do not do that at all, and never have.  If anything, physicists do the opposite.




LOL. Gravity has not been detected; a graviton that is. We just know it's there and know its laws because we can measure them and theorize. We create a fundamental particle known as the 'graviton' that communicates via photons and voila GRAVITY


offtopic: Taoism is indeed interesting! I may think of joining

Edited by android313 (06/02/11 12:45 PM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550762 - 06/02/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Wrong again.  Gravity has been detected, a simple scale detects it.

Also, the graviton does not communicate via the photon... The photon is the force carrying particle for the electromagnetic force, the graviton is is the force carrying particle for the gravitational force.  Note that detecting a postulated force carrying particle is not necessary to observe the force.  (Take gravity for example...)

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550782 - 06/02/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Wrong again.  Gravity has been detected, a simple scale detects it.

Also, the graviton does not communicate via the photon... The photon is the force carrying particle for the electromagnetic force, the graviton is is the force carrying particle for the gravitational force.  Note that detecting a postulated force carrying particle is not necessary to observe the force.  (Take gravity for example...)




Not to mention that we have working mathematical models describing the behavior of gravity that work in different scenarios as they should.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550786 - 06/02/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Wrong again.  Gravity has been detected, a simple scale detects it.

Also, the graviton does not communicate via the photon... The photon is the force carrying particle for the electromagnetic force, the graviton is is the force carrying particle for the gravitational force.  Note that detecting a postulated force carrying particle is not necessary to observe the force.  (Take gravity for example...)




Yeah, my bad on the second part

A simple scale measures it*, I don't think it's actually been detected. If so, please provide a link or explanation. And on the case that I am wrong, even if we can detect it, we can't explain it, not on a quantrum level that is, without some probabilistic underlining theory

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?
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Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550803 - 06/02/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

How do natural ecosystems pollute themselves?




By not cleaning up their waste.

You are inventing notions of 'harmony' and the way things 'should be'.  There is no way the earth 'should be', that is a ridiculous religious myth.




ecosystems don't have waste. everything is reused and reused again. mushrooms for example recycle decomposing organic matter and they in turn are eaten by animals who create more organic matter to be colonized by fungus. nothing is wasted.

I'm not saying the earth should change, it is the way it is, And it IS harmoniously balanced. This is shown in all of the natural sciences. This is why it is important that people realize the importance of cooperation in early evolutionary development, it has the potential to be as influential as social Darwinism was in the 19th and 20th centuries.

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550809 - 06/02/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Your argument is that we can't explain it on a quantum level without probabilities? :facepalm:


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Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550819 - 06/02/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, gravity has been detected.  Im not sure why you are being obtuse about this...  The fact that you feel a force on your feet when standing is a detection of gravity.

Otherwise, Im not sure what your point is...  In science a force is a specific thing with a specific unit, Formula: 0.  If it doesnt have that unit, it is not a force.  What you are describing is something different, something mystical and spiritual.  Comparing it to scientific notions of force is not going to do you any good.

Personally, I think you are just making things up to satisfy your mystical beliefs and insecurities.  :shrug:

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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: 4896744]
    #14550825 - 06/02/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Your argument is that we can't explain it on a quantum level without probabilities? :facepalm:




I have no argument. This is a discussion. If you don't care to discuss it, don't. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


Quote:

DieCommie said:
Personally, I think you are just making things up to satisfy your mystical beliefs and insecurities.  :shrug:




Yup. We all do this:grin:

I probably don't make sense. I should just join a religion

Edited by android313 (06/02/11 01:02 PM)

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14550829 - 06/02/11 01:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:

ecosystems don't have waste. everything is reused and reused again. mushrooms for example recycle decomposing organic matter and they in turn are eaten by animals who create more organic matter to be colonized by fungus. nothing is wasted.

I'm not saying the earth should change, it is the way it is, And it IS harmoniously balanced. This is shown in all of the natural sciences. This is why it is important that people realize the importance of cooperation in early evolutionary development, it has the potential to be as influential as social Darwinism was in the 19th and 20th centuries.




I thought you just claimed that humans aren't in harmony with nature because of nuclear Waste.

You also never explained how it makes sense that nature can not be in harmony with nature.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14550830 - 06/02/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

How do natural ecosystems pollute themselves?




By not cleaning up their waste.

You are inventing notions of 'harmony' and the way things 'should be'.  There is no way the earth 'should be', that is a ridiculous religious myth.




ecosystems don't have waste. everything is reused and reused again. mushrooms for example recycle decomposing organic matter and they in turn are eaten by animals who create more organic matter to be colonized by fungus. nothing is wasted.





You are just making things up.  Everything is not reused in the ecosystem, not when man is around and not before man existed.  The oxygen we breath is the toxic waste from earlier species.  It is pollution that destroyed their environment and created ours.

You are trying very hard to appeal to some type of nature deity or special order of things, but such a deity does not exist.  Your faith is misguided.

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550844 - 06/02/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

android313 said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Your argument is that we can't explain it on a quantum level without probabilities? :facepalm:




I have no argument. This is a discussion. If you don't care to discuss it, don't. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:




If you don't have a basic understanding of the principles you are trying to discuss then don't. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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Live your Life! :heart:

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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: 4896744]
    #14550863 - 06/02/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

android313 said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Your argument is that we can't explain it on a quantum level without probabilities? :facepalm:




I have no argument. This is a discussion. If you don't care to discuss it, don't. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:




If you don't have a basic understanding of the principles you are trying to discuss then don't. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:




Ok, then please, lay out your model of Quantrum Gravity for us

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550872 - 06/02/11 01:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

android313 said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

android313 said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Your argument is that we can't explain it on a quantum level without probabilities? :facepalm:




I have no argument. This is a discussion. If you don't care to discuss it, don't. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:




If you don't have a basic understanding of the principles you are trying to discuss then don't. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:




Ok, then please, lay out your model of Quantrum Gravity for us




:rolleyes:  The fact that neither he nor anyone has a quantum theory of gravity in no way substantiates your baseless claim for an evolutionary force.  What exactly are you trying to prove by showing that he does not have a quantum theory of gravity?

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550882 - 06/02/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

android313 said:

Ok, then please, lay out your model of Quantrum Gravity for us




I never claimed to have one; i was just pointing out the absurdity of wanting one that didn't include probabilities, for quantum principles rely on probabilities.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550906 - 06/02/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:


:rolleyes:  The fact that neither he nor anyone has a quantum theory of gravity in no way substantiates your baseless claim for an evolutionary force.  What exactly are you trying to prove by showing that he does not have a quantum theory of gravity?




It is a baseless claim. I'm not trying to prove anything nor could I. I'm  philosphizing



Doesn't viewing actions in terms of probabilities go against the very definition of science?

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550908 - 06/02/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Doesn't viewing actions in terms of probabilities go against the very definition of science?




No, not at all.

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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550920 - 06/02/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Doesn't viewing actions in terms of probabilities go against the very definition of science?




No, not at all.




well then thank you for schooling me:crazy2:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550929 - 06/02/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You're welcome.  I love answering questions about science and the philosophy of science so feel free to ask if something else doesn't make sense.

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Offlineandroid313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14550940 - 06/02/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
You're welcome.  I love answering questions about science and the philosophy of science so feel free to ask if something else doesn't make sense.




I love asking them! If I get another crazy idea I'll come to you:stoned:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14550946 - 06/02/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh no... I dont respond well to crazy theories.  I respond better to confusion, curiosity and inquisition - not proselytizing the idea of the day.

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