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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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and what the fuck is an extended personalism?
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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by observing nature we can learn to live in harmony with the universe.
In the words of Huai Nan Tzu, "Those who follow the natural order flow in the current of the Tao."
people have tried for centuries to base their lives off of shit made up by some douche bags over the past 2000 years. I think that it would be better if we based our society on what we observe in nature.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
android313 said:
And to continue the discussion: what are you basing your assumptions on? You're very quick to dismiss it as a force, any reason why? Regardless of what it is, a process, a trend, it's still relevant and for the large part, a complete and utter mystery.
I'm speculating everyone, don't take me seriously.
What assumptions? That evolution isn't a force?
That is based on the definition of the concept and the way its used as a term: it describes the process of an organism's progression from one state to another over a period of time via natural selection and its influences on the genome of the species.
By definition, this is not a force, it is a concept used to describe the process of this occurance which is a part of all living things' development via its progeny.
A force is something that imparts an acceleration on a mass or resist another acceleration. This does not describe evolution.
Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: I don't know man, Whats the point of life? you quote Nietzsche in your sig so I assume you'd say that there is no point. well I agree. life is meaningless, but it isn't chaotic. there is a order to the universe. Nature is intrinsically balanced.
Did anyone express having any trouble understanding your claims? We get it. What isn't clear is whether you have just made this up or if you have any basis for saying so. This is a philosophy forum: back up the things you've said.
Quote:
I think your interpreting my usage of the word god in the judeo-christian sense, but I think that god is everything. god is the energy that flows throughout the universe. subatomic particles aren't real entities, matter is not made of anything, it is a process.
Have you replied to my prior criticism of this idea? I don't think you have.
As I said previously: you seem to use a standard term, god, but use it to describe a dissimilar idea that has nothing to do with what the word means. By defining god to be everything, energy, and so forth, you are describing something completely unrelated and then dishonestly representing that as god: despite the fact that the term has nothing to do with the concept. Basically: you claim to call the universe 'god', but seem to have no justification for arbitrarily using another word to describe the concept of the universe. No justification, that is, unless you get some emotional satisfaction from acknowledging, believing, the concept of god, but dishonestly fool yourself or others by using the term to refer to something that isn't 'god'.
I don't know what it is about the philosophy forum or the term 'god', but there seems to be a never ending stream of people who like to make up their own definitions for standard english words and then confuse everybody. If you want to make up shit, at least pick a word not allready taken so you don't confuse people: of course, that would prevent you from decieving yourself, which I suspect is why you do this song and dance (you like believing in a god but can't justify that to yourself so you just lie to yourself by using the term to refer to something else and complicate the matter through bullshit enough to keep the dissonance from being too readily apparent)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: by observing nature we can learn to live in harmony with the universe.
In the words of Huai Nan Tzu, "Those who follow the natural order flow in the current of the Tao."
people have tried for centuries to base their lives off of shit made up by some douche bags over the past 2000 years. I think that it would be better if we based our society on what we observe in nature.
Don't get to caught up in what Taoists say either. That quote above makes no sense to me. Everyone is following the natural order of things no matter what they are doing or what he or you or I think about it. Nothing else is possible. 
Taoists remind me of hippies. 
Better to leave off after the first saying in the Tao Te Ching and get on with it. Just like it's better to stop at the four noble truths in buddhism. Mostly after that it's bs imo.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: I don't know man, Whats the point of life? you quote Nietzsche in your sig so I assume you'd say that there is no point. well I agree. life is meaningless, but it isn't chaotic. there is a order to the universe. Nature is intrinsically balanced.
I think your interpreting my usage of the word god in the judeo-christian sense, but I think that god is everything. god is the energy that flows throughout the universe. subatomic particles aren't real entities, matter is not made of anything, it is a process. I don't see any better purpose in life than understanding this process as much as possible.
So whats the point? I guess I just don't have anything better to do.
So you admit that transcendentalism is nothing more than mental masturbtion in which you needlessly label things with inferior descriptions relative to the descriptions available to us in this day and age?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: by observing nature we can learn to live in harmony with the universe.
In the words of Huai Nan Tzu, "Those who follow the natural order flow in the current of the Tao."
people have tried for centuries to base their lives off of shit made up by some douche bags over the past 2000 years. I think that it would be better if we based our society on what we observe in nature.
Please explain to me how anything can not be natural.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: 4896744]
#14550396 - 06/02/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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John, I'm not making up a new definition of God, transcendentalists like Emerson and Thoreau did that. I'm simply using their definition of god, and I don't see how that is dishonest. If you would like me to explain how quantum physics expresses a worldview not dissimilar from Taoism, than I will try, but I suggest you read The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra, he does a better job at it than I can.
ithink, of course everything is natural, but not all human actions are in harmony with nature. Industrialization has polluted the environment and destroyed the delicate balance of the earth's ecosystems. Cars are made of natural things, by natural processes, but that does not mean they are in harmony with nature.
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Big Worm
Perf



Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 7,642
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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But what if we were really genetically engineered?
and that the history of humans that we are taught is a lie?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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but not all human actions are in harmony with nature. Industrialization has polluted the environment and destroyed the delicate balance of the earth's ecosystems. Cars are made of natural things, by natural processes, but that does not mean they are in harmony with nature.
Wrong wrong wrong. Nature itself causes pollution and is constantly destroying and recreating itself. What a shallow understanding of nature you seem to have here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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android313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I have some basic understanding of how things work. If you are using a cell phone and the internet then you have used devices that I took some minor part in developing and/or building as a 25-year Silicon Valley technician, engineer and manufacturing manager.
My BS degree included university courses in biology, chemistry and physics in addition to computer science. Not as good as getting stoned and making shit up though...
HEY THERE'S A SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY SUB-FORUM WHERE YOU CAN BE AS CONDESCENDING AS YOU'D LIKE. CLICK THAT ONE.
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Icelander said: You could start by reading the forum guidelines.
WHAT did I miss? Why are you telling me to go away? WHY are you fucking in this thread if you don't like it?? Look at all the interesting discussion that came from it. You can always put me on ignore instead of complaining.
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Dr. P. Silocybin said: The religions that I think are the most legitimate are Taoism and Buddhism. Would you consider these religions or philosophies? there is a gray area, Taoist don't believe in any god, but only in the Tao, the singular process that is the basis of all reality. I think that God is very loose term open to a wide variety of interpretation, god could be a old man in white, an omnipresent force, an alien, or anything really. just as god cannot be defined neither can religion/spirituality. I see science as an extremely rational and complex religion.
There are many similarities between Taoism and Quantum physics, the worldviews expressed by the two are not mutually exclusive. Even though Taoists arrive at their philosophy through intuitive processes and scientists base their knowledge on analytical logic, the two have come to similar conclusions regarding the true nature of reality.
I agree with you 100%, thanks for the interesting post. I've always been interested in Buddhism and was completely ignorant to Taoism, which I can assure you I'll be reading about
Quote:
johnm214 said:
What assumptions? That evolution isn't a force?
That is based on the definition of the concept and the way its used as a term: it describes the process of an organism's progression from one state to another over a period of time via natural selection and its influences on the genome of the species.
By definition, this is not a force, it is a concept used to describe the process of this occurance which is a part of all living things' development via its progeny.
A force is something that imparts an acceleration on a mass or resist another acceleration. This does not describe evolution.
Thanks for the explanation. And I'll give you the benefit of being technically right, because you are. But I, personally, see evolution as something of a phenomena that takes place over such a drastic length of time, that it cannot possibly be studied or understood by us humans, but merely defined and labeled.
And just one more time for everyone:
Quote:
android313 said: I'm speculating everyone, don't take me seriously.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: John, I'm not making up a new definition of God, transcendentalists like Emerson and Thoreau did that. I'm simply using their definition of god, and I don't see how that is dishonest. If you would like me to explain how quantum physics expresses a worldview not dissimilar from Taoism, than I will try, but I suggest you read The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra, he does a better job at it than I can.
ithink, of course everything is natural, but not all human actions are in harmony with nature. Industrialization has polluted the environment and destroyed the delicate balance of the earth's ecosystems. Cars are made of natural things, by natural processes, but that does not mean they are in harmony with nature.
What about volcanoes and earthquakes? Are they also not in harmony with nature? Do you not realize the absurdity in saying nature is not in harmony with nature?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
#14550599 - 06/02/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Android, do you understand the forum rules? This is a place for meaningful discussion that can be backed up with logic and evidence, not for ideas that aren't meant to be taken seriously.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Dr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?



Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
#14550675 - 06/02/11 12:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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How do natural ecosystems pollute themselves? chemical and nuclear waste, strip mining, and deforestation pollute the environment. These are all actions of men, yes they are natural, chemicals are natural and so are saws, the men who cut down trees are part of nature, and they use forces of nature to cut the tree down, but these actions upset the natural balance and impact the earth in infinitely complex ways.
Of course volcano's and earthquakes are in harmony with nature. Did I ever say that they were bad things? they are part of the earth's balance. like icelander said nature is constantly destroying and recreating itself. These natural disasters are only damaging if your measuring property damage and death tolls, and death is part of nature's balance too.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
How do natural ecosystems pollute themselves?
By not cleaning up their waste.
You are inventing notions of 'harmony' and the way things 'should be'. There is no way the earth 'should be', that is a ridiculous religious myth.
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android313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: 4896744]
#14550682 - 06/02/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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]iThink said: Android, do you understand the forum rules? This is a place for meaningful discussion that can be backed up with logic and evidence, not for ideas that aren't meant to be taken seriously.
I'm provoking meaningful discussion. Quick someone ban me.
Has this not been proposed at all???? It's HAD to of been.
In a universe of chemistry bound by forces, we life forms just exist? We're just here? Not really doing much of anything?
And yet there's the whole mystery of life and how it comes to be.
Wouldn't it be logical to associate life with an undetectable force? Wouldn't that conveniently explain, I don't know, everything?
This idea HAS to already exist.
That would also explain stupid things like why we like music. Why we feel we can be "apart" of it, as well as with other energies "one with___" because we are a force in our natural state. This biology is foreign to us.
This would also support Aldous Huxley's idea of The Greater Mind. Psychoactives are indeed an enzyme for cognition, and do put us more in touch with the life force, giving us a greater perception
Back this up with logic and evidence: "Morality is the herd-instinct in the individual." -Nietzsche
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
#14550689 - 06/02/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wouldn't it be logical to associate life with an undetectable force? Wouldn't that conveniently explain, I don't know, everything?
No, and no. Making up an undetectable force is not logical, nor does it provide any extra explanatory ability.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
#14550702 - 06/02/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Everyone is following the natural order of things no matter what they are doing or what he or you or I think about it. Nothing else is possible. 

Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: you quote Nietzsche in your sig so I assume you'd say that there is no point. well I agree. life is meaningless, but it isn't chaotic. there is a order to the universe. Nature is intrinsically balanced.
1. Nietzsche was not a nihilist. Far from it. 2. "Order" and "chaos" are simply opposite words. Neither describe the Absolute, the Universe as it actually is.
Quote:
Wouldn't it be logical to associate life with an undetectable force? Wouldn't that conveniently explain, I don't know, everything?
As if it were really that easy. The only reason it would conveniently explain everything is that it's not an explanation at all.
Edited by NetDiver (06/02/11 12:44 PM)
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android313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
#14550704 - 06/02/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Wouldn't it be logical to associate life with an undetectable force? Wouldn't that conveniently explain, I don't know, everything?
No, and no. Making up an undetectable force is not logical, nor does it provide any extra explanatory ability.
I don't know if you're aware, but physicists make up undetectable forces all the time, then later prove them
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
As if it were really that easy. The only reason it would conveniently explain everything is that it's not an explanation at all. 
fair enough!
Edited by android313 (06/02/11 12:40 PM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
#14550712 - 06/02/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I dont know if you are aware, but you are just making things up. Physicists do not do that at all, and never have. If anything, physicists do the opposite.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Dr. P. Silocybin said: How do natural ecosystems pollute themselves? chemical and nuclear waste, strip mining, and deforestation pollute the environment. These are all actions of men, yes they are natural, chemicals are natural and so are saws, the men who cut down trees are part of nature, and they use forces of nature to cut the tree down, but these actions upset the natural balance and impact the earth in infinitely complex ways.
Of course volcano's and earthquakes are in harmony with nature. Did I ever say that they were bad things? they are part of the earth's balance. like icelander said nature is constantly destroying and recreating itself. These natural disasters are only damaging if your measuring property damage and death tolls, and death is part of nature's balance too.
So when humans pollute the environment it's not in harmony with nature, but when volcanoes pollute the environment it is? You do realize that volcanoes release massive amounts of green house gasses?
-------------------- Live your Life!
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