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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Mycopesticides?
    #14548832 - 06/02/11 12:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Just finished "Mycelium Running" by Paul Stamets. It was an excellent read, and I reccomend it to everyone interested in Mycology.

In the chapter on Mycopesticides he mentions an isolate of Metarhizium anisopliae that helped him get rid of the carpenter ants that were infesting his house. Ive got a similar situation going on here. Im getting ready to poison my place for the 3rd time in six months. The damn things just wont go away. I dont like the poison, but these things are everywhere, its rediculous. Im considering moving out if I cant get rid of them.

That chapter gave me inspiration to try a new solution, Ive dropped a line to FP to see what it would take to get a sample of his isolate, though Im a little pessimistic about actually getting it. So I figured I would check here too.

I was really torn on where to post this. Marketplace-Probably wont be seen by someone that has it. Gourmet and Medicinals-Doesnt really fall into that catagory. Advanced Mycology-Not really the right place to ask for things, but ultimately seemed like the only place I might find it.


Sooooo.....does anyone have a culture of this that they may be willing to part with?


EDIT: Now looking for, and taking suggestions for a solution to my carpenter ant problem. Can anyone suggest a "mycosolution"?


Edited by wildernessjunkie (06/17/11 12:32 AM)


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Invisiblemycoelf
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14549826 - 06/02/11 07:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good luck with FP, they want you to hire your own lawyer just to get a strain of oysters, I am guessing that there is a 99.99% chance they are going to say NO. From what I have read some pesticide chemical company was going to sue them for bringing that to market, and it has sit on their shelf since.

To provide you hope, I do believe that Stametes cites an ATTC # on the culture that he started with, and his isolation technique is outlined in GGMM. Basically started the myc on a big plate, and transferred the leading edge of the non sporulateing myc. After the third transfer he got a sector that did not sporulate, (mutation i suppose) he then subed that sector and got a non-sporulateing strain. From there it looks like he simply grows out a G1 and feeds the captured grain to the beasties, at that point they move the infected grains into their lair, at which point the myc naturalizes and starts to sporulate again, spelling doom for the colonies and guaranteeing by the persistence of the spores that no future colonies will set up in the same space.

If you do manage to hunt down the strain please let us know, I have had the same request form my friends and if we could get this out in the underground mycology movement it would bee one more tool in the box for dealing with the earth changes:goodluck:


--------------------
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Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

:aliendance::aliendance::wicca::aliendance::aliendance::pipesmoke:


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: mycoelf]
    #14572354 - 06/07/11 12:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:bump:


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14592837 - 06/10/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Got a response from FP today. They said that all mycopesticides are still in development, and have not as of yet been released. They offered to put me on the list of people to notify when they are released.


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OfflinePuma
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14620094 - 06/15/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Every ant colony has a specific area used as an ant graveyard. When an ant approaches the ant nest smelling of Metarhizium anisopliae spores, the guards haul him off to the graveyard, cut off his head, and then commit suicide (they are replaced by two more guards). This, according the Stamets.

The point is, if you can find an ant graveyard, it will be rich with the spores of this particular fungus. So if you can get it in culture and isolate it, you should be able to follow the Stamets technique to get a non-sporulating strain.


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: Puma]
    #14625948 - 06/16/11 11:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Puma said:
Every ant colony has a specific area used as an ant graveyard. When an ant approaches the ant nest smelling of Metarhizium anisopliae spores, the guards haul him off to the graveyard, cut off his head, and then commit suicide (they are replaced by two more guards). This, according the Stamets.

The point is, if you can find an ant graveyard, it will be rich with the spores of this particular fungus. So if you can get it in culture and isolate it, you should be able to follow the Stamets technique to get a non-sporulating strain.





This isnt going to work for me. Ive got carpenter ants, and Im not about to start pulling the house down to find an ant grave yard. Im not even sure if this species is native or exists here.

Ill use this as a bump, and Ill change the title of the post to make it a little broader. Originally I was looking for Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae, I have recieved a response from FP stating that its not currently available. And as far as I know, the only person that has accoplished producing such a thing is Stamets.

Im going to throw out, that Im looking for any mycopesticide that can kill my critters.


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OfflinePuma
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14626327 - 06/17/11 01:05 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What Stamets describes is a technique that anyone who knows how to work with agar plates can accomplish. You place the mycelium on about a dozen large plates, and wait until you see a white sector. Then you chase that sector until you get a non-sporulating strain. Actually, it's a strain with inhibited sporulation (delayed sporulation). If it never sporulated, it's secondary function of repelling future invasions, once it sporulates, wouldn't work.

Stamets hasn't patented the strain; he has patented the procedure of obtaining this strain for use as a mycopesticide. In order to obtain a patent you have to describe a replicable process or technology. That's what he's done. If it was beyond other mycologists to accomplish, he wouldn't have needed to patent it.

You don't need to find the ant graveyard in the colony within your house. There are other ant colonies in the world. What you're really saying is that you don't care enough about obtaining a non-sporulating strain of Metarhizium anisopliae to look for it in nature and then to cultivate the mutation you're looking for. Understandable, that's a bit of a project. I was just suggesting one way to get exactly what you're looking for. Alternatively, you could order it for about $100 from a university culture library, or you could contact someone like the guy on shroomery who calls himself Cordyceps, who might hook you up with some. But you'll still have to chase the non-sporulating substrain on petri dishes, just like Stamets showed us how, if you want to rid yourself of carpenter ants.

Some things, thankfully, money still can't buy. You have to do a bit of work for them.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14626924 - 06/17/11 07:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:


Ill use this as a bump, and Ill change the title of the post to make it a little broader. Originally I was looking for Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae, I have recieved a response from FP stating that its not currently available. And as far as I know, the only person that has accoplished producing such a thing is Stamets.

Im going to throw out, that Im looking for any mycopesticide that can kill my critters.




If they're ruining your house, get rid of them with borax and sugar water.  Of course that only works if they're sugar-eaters, but I know the large black ants that were chewing through a house of mine in Oklahoma back in the dark ages, ate it right up.
RR


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14627917 - 06/17/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:


Ill use this as a bump, and Ill change the title of the post to make it a little broader. Originally I was looking for Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae, I have recieved a response from FP stating that its not currently available. And as far as I know, the only person that has accoplished producing such a thing is Stamets.

Im going to throw out, that Im looking for any mycopesticide that can kill my critters.




If they're ruining your house, get rid of them with borax and sugar water.  Of course that only works if they're sugar-eaters, but I know the large black ants that were chewing through a house of mine in Oklahoma back in the dark ages, ate it right up.
RR




Ill try that.


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14631890 - 06/18/11 03:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Do I mix that borax and sugar with water? A paste or liquid? Whats the Tek?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14632618 - 06/18/11 07:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Don't add enough borax to make it a paste.  It will still be liquid.  I just add a tablespoon or so of borax to 1/4 cup of sugar water.  I use the same 1:5 ratio for the sugar water as I put in the hummingbird feeders.

It takes about a week to ten days to wipe out the ant colony.  Until then, they'll have a line of ants pigging out on your syrup.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14633457 - 06/18/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Perfect. Ill try it out. Thanks for the info. Im really trying to stay away from the poisons.


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OfflinePrecariousCibarius
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14637909 - 06/19/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

you could also try cordiceps. :smile: turn their heads into spore cans.


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: PrecariousCibarius]
    #14638367 - 06/19/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I just got some Cordyceps Militaris put on agar the other day. Do you think that would work with carpenter ants? Thought that was specific to caterpillers?


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Invisiblecc2
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14638598 - 06/19/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

entomopathogenic fungi are so specific that sometimes the same species won't kill two genus-related insects. so going as far as caterpillars and ants won't work, unless you mutate it, MAYBE.


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OfflinePrecariousCibarius
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: cc2]
    #14638774 - 06/19/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

sounds diabolical.. just don't turn us into zombies - i don't want to wake up in the middle of the night in the future, feel compelled to climb a telephone pole and have a giant spore body explode out of my eye sockets.


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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: PrecariousCibarius]
    #14646494 - 06/21/11 01:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I just ordered a culture of Metarhizium anisopliae. Should be here in a few weeks, after which I'll start trying to isolate a non-sporulating strain. Maybe I'll be able to help some of you guys with your ant problems.


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OfflinePrecariousCibarius
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: Puma]
    #14648477 - 06/21/11 01:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:crazy2::syringe:


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Invisiblemycoelf
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Re: Non-Sporulating Metarhizium anisopliae? [Re: Puma]
    #14650573 - 06/21/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Nice, keep us posted, I would like to be on your list if you get a hit!


--------------------
Mycoelf

Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

:aliendance::aliendance::wicca::aliendance::aliendance::pipesmoke:


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Re: Mycopesticides? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14844746 - 07/29/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/13065646
this article shows Ophiocordyceps that is attacking a carpenter ant (maybe you have awesome exotic carpenter ants and this will do the trick & you can take some cool pics for us?)
This is moving off topic from the final post but I feel its relevant to the original subject line. If a fungus is 'attracted' to one specific species is that attraction dependent on the phase of the insects life cycle?
i.e. The "graveyard" that was mentioned only included adult ants, which makes me wonder, if the invading instrument were to reach ovum, larvae or pupa would it affect them as well? (like my beloved beetle=larvae-bitch=slapping nematodes)
Do you have an update on the effects of Borax & Myco?
if you still haven't had any luck try aspartame.


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Re: Mycopesticides? [Re: CapsOff]
    #14864703 - 08/02/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I am going to grow C. Militaris on supplemented rice...I hope.

I would love to be able to use a safe and clean way of killing termites
and their ilk.

Good luck,

JD


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Mycopesticides? [Re: Javadog]
    #14864722 - 08/02/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well I bitched to the landlady awhile back, and when I came home she had sprayed everything with poison. I think she likes having me here. So now I dont have the problem. Though I do expect them to come back. While Im glad they are gone (for now), I was really excited to try the whole Borax bit. So when I see them again, Ill try it. I do have a C. Militaris wedge, maybe I should put that in some rice, in preparation for when they come back, again.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mycopesticides? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14866063 - 08/03/11 06:50 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Most species of parasitic fungi have only one or two insect hosts they'll use.  I've not seen a broad-based fungal insect killer.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Re: Mycopesticides? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14866852 - 08/03/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Diatomaceous earth.

Simply sprinkle it around and on whatever your trying to get termites to stay away from.


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Edited by LucyLove (08/03/11 11:48 AM)


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Re: Mycopesticides? [Re: LucyLove]
    #14877255 - 08/05/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Borax/sugar syrup works like a charm for ants who will eat it and take it back to their nests.


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