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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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The very first homo sapiens
#14547048 - 06/01/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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That whole concept makes no sense to say the first humans appeared so many hundreds of thousands of years ago. What were they X hundred thousand years + 1?
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xFrockx


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It is absurd to call anything human, but we do it and pretend it means something.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: That whole concept makes no sense to say the first humans appeared so many hundreds of thousands of years ago. What were they X hundred thousand years + 1?
Homo sapiens neanderthalis, and before that, Homo erectus.
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4896744
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14548178 - 06/01/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: It is absurd to call anything human, but we do it and pretend it means something.
It's a workable way to describe percieved distinct formations of matter. Why do you find that absurd?
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Rhizoid
carbon unit


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There is no planet named Pluto since August 24, 2006. Is it correct to say that the planet Pluto ceased to exist on that date? Or did it fade away from existence long before that?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: Rhizoid]
#14549568 - 06/02/11 06:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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What will go next? Micky? Daffy?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14549737 - 06/02/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's like we're all in "The Chinese Room" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room) but none of us knows chinese, and yet somehow, we all can have conversations. If that's not absurd I don't know what is.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: NetDiver]
#14549778 - 06/02/11 07:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: That whole concept makes no sense to say the first humans appeared so many hundreds of thousands of years ago. What were they X hundred thousand years + 1?
Homo sapiens neanderthalis, and before that, Homo erectus. 
So one generation was a distinct species from the next?
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550224 - 06/02/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: It's like we're all in "The Chinese Room" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room) but none of us knows chinese, and yet somehow, we all can have conversations. If that's not absurd I don't know what is.
So you are saying that we don't understand what "human" means? It's just a workable percieved distinction that we named. If you consider that to not be "understanding" then you undermine the "chinese room" argument, for in your view there is no such thing as understanding.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: That whole concept makes no sense to say the first humans appeared so many hundreds of thousands of years ago. What were they X hundred thousand years + 1?
Homo sapiens neanderthalis, and before that, Homo erectus. 
So one generation was a distinct species from the next?
Why not? The distinction is arbitrary, we can put it where ever we like and make it as definite or fuzzy as we like.
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14550276 - 06/02/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"So you are saying that we don't understand what "human" means?"
I don't know about we. I don't. Do you? What does it mean to be human?
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550286 - 06/02/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "So you are saying that we don't understand what "human" means?"
I don't know about we. I don't. Do you? What does it mean to be human?
It means that we fit our own percieved distinction in matter which we label as "human".
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acidlover123
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: DieCommie]
#14550288 - 06/02/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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they are not technically homo sapiens. but are similar. they all fall in the same genus. what they mean by human is species from the genus Homo. and before that they were more closely related to apes and monkeys
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Icelander
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550310 - 06/02/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "So you are saying that we don't understand what "human" means?"
I don't know about we. I don't. Do you? What does it mean to be human?
Meaning? I don't got to show you no meaning!
Being human means this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14550311 - 06/02/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"It means that we fit our own percieved distinction in matter which we label as "human"."
And what if you don't have one, or the one you have doesn't really mean anything?
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: Icelander]
#14550317 - 06/02/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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So if Marvin the Martian understand what a wink is, then he is human? What does a wink mean anyway? I'm not sure I know.
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Icelander
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550319 - 06/02/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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And what if you don't have one, or the one you have doesn't really mean anything?
Your day to day actions most likely reflect the meaning you give to being human. Nice try however.
There is no way to know if anything means anything or what we think it means. That won't stop us from typing out our reply however.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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4896744
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550392 - 06/02/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "It means that we fit our own percieved distinction in matter which we label as "human"."
And what if you don't have one, or the one you have doesn't really mean anything?
By "our" i meant the scientific definition. We all fit under that percieved distinction in matter.
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Diploid
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So one generation was a distinct species from the next?
One way to define "species" is "a group of individuals sufficiently genetically similar to bear offspring".
In a practical sense, there is a gray area when species differentiate.
For example, there is a *single* species of leopard frog whose habitat ranges from northeastern US to southeastern US. Morphologically, they all appear identical. However, genetically the northern frogs are subtly different from the southern ones.
In the north, they all can mate and produce viable fertilized eggs. The same happens in the south. However, in the middle, the viability of their fertilized eggs drops off abruptly. Some young are still born in the middle latitudes, but most eggs never mature.
Over the decades, the viability rate has been steadily declining as different selective pressures on the north and south populations distinguish their two genomes and make them less compatible.
Eventually, none of the matings of north and south frogs will yield any young at all and at that point it can be said that they have diverged into two distinct species. This doesn't happen overnight. It's a gradual process over geologic time; thousands to millions of years.
Does that make sense?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: Icelander]
#14550720 - 06/02/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Your day to day actions most likely reflect the meaning you give to being human. "
Huh? Reflect with what, and onto what? Metaphorical nonsense.
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14550722 - 06/02/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Which is?
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4896744
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550765 - 06/02/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Which is?
Are you capable of wipping your own ass after defecating?
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14550877 - 06/02/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Never tried wipping my ass, regardless of circumstance.
Honestly, what is this biological definition of human? I'd love to hear about it.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14550909 - 06/02/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Other creatures that are capable of reproducing with me for females, and creatures capable of reproducing with the females whom i can reproduce with for males.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14550999 - 06/02/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Let us zoom far into the future when many different planets have been seeded by humans. The different gravity, amount of radiation from the local star and different atmosphere, etc. will over time make the inhabitants quite different, both physically and culturally, from earth-born humans. At what generational point will the extra-terrestrial humans cease being human?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Let us zoom far into the future when many different planets have been seeded by humans. The different gravity, amount of radiation from the local star and different atmosphere, etc. will over time make the inhabitants quite different, both physically and culturally, from earth-born humans. At what generational point will the extra-terrestrial humans cease being human?
At whatever point we deem such a distinction to be useful.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: DieCommie]
#14551023 - 06/02/11 01:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are no fun!
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Yea, but it's true.
If we have some planet centric ideology, then we will define them as not human because they dont live on earth. If we have a reproduction centric ideology, then we will define them as not human because when they cant reproduce with us. If we have a cultural centric ideology, then we will define them as not human because they have different languages and customs from us. Or, what could happen is making such a distinction is no longer useful so nobody bothers to make it.
Definitions are a function of utility, they are not inherent.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: DieCommie]
#14551053 - 06/02/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Now let's define what a commie actually is.
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xFrockx


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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: 4896744]
#14551072 - 06/02/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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So sterile people aren't human? What about hermaphrodites?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: xFrockx]
#14551092 - 06/02/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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What about right-wing Christian fundamentalist weapon-toting, Rapture-spouting nutters? I have absolutely nothing in common with that species.
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DieCommie

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Quote:
I have absolutely nothing in common with that species.
Riiight!
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Icelander
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Re: The very first homo sapiens [Re: DieCommie]
#14551370 - 06/02/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Let us zoom far into the future when many different planets have been seeded by humans. The different gravity, amount of radiation from the local star and different atmosphere, etc. will over time make the inhabitants quite different, both physically and culturally, from earth-born humans. At what generational point will the extra-terrestrial humans cease being human?
At whatever point we deem such a distinction to be useful.
this is the only answer imo
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rhizoid
carbon unit


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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Let us zoom far into the future when many different planets have been seeded by humans.
What if they colonize a non-planet, like Pluto?
j/k 
On a more serious note: under what circumstances is it morally acceptable to abort a non-human alien fetus? On Pluto or otherwise.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: That whole concept makes no sense to say the first humans appeared so many hundreds of thousands of years ago. What were they X hundred thousand years + 1?
Generally the percision of the estimates is such that the answer to your question is not defined. Then when pop sci or media butchers the translation into their own articles, or simply neglects any mention of percision to avoid confusing some, faulty implications that the estimate is percise to a year is created.
Generally if someone says 'x million number of years, some event occured', the implication is that the figure is percise to an order of magnitude equal to a million years, half a million plus or minus. If x is greater than an integer in magnitude, its more uncertain, but I would presume the percision to be on the order of the magnitude expressed by the first non-zero digit.
Scientific notation would be preferable, but its not used in many places where it should be: nutrition information, for example. Instead, we have the government authorizing lies, such as "No Fat"/ "Fat Free" when this is false. In the US, percision of the measurements aren't provided at all, which becomes particularly problematic when the figures are attempted to be used to descern the amount of some category in a portion signifigantly greater or less than a serving.
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