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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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[FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs
    #14546301 - 06/01/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/31/us-florida-welfare-drugs-idUSTRE74U6W320110531





TALLAHASSEE, Florida | Tue May 31, 2011 6:06pm EDT
(Reuters) - Florida will begin testing welfare recipients for illicit drug use under a new law signed by Governor Rick Scott on Tuesday.

The measure makes Florida the only state to test all recipients of the federal program known as Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, according a Washington-based public policy group that says other states have chosen less obtrusive ways to monitor drug use.

The new law, a version of which was struck down by a federal court in Michigan in 2003, requires recipients to pay for the tests before qualifying for benefits and periodically after they receive them.

The law was one of Scott's campaign promises. Supporters say it will help ensure that taxpayer money is used to get families on their feet and not to fuel drug habits at state expense.

"While there are certainly legitimate needs for public assistance, it is unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction," Scott said in a statement released after he signed the bill during a visit to Panama City.

"This new law will encourage personal accountability and will help to prevent the misuse of tax dollars."

Beginning July 1, recipients who test positive for drugs would be denied benefits for a year. A second failed test would result in a three-year ban.

In two-parent households, both adults would be tested. Benefits to children could be awarded to a third-party recipient, who must also pass a drug screen.

The law will not affect the federal food stamp program.

Critics, including the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida and Florida Legal Services, said they will decide in coming weeks if they plan to file suit against the law on the grounds that blanket drug tests are unconstitutional.

Federal law allows states to screen for drug use under the TANF program, which provides a maximum $300 a month cash assistance to needy families. The program, which replaced traditional welfare in the mid 1990s, has a 48-month lifetime cap on benefits.

Other states have studied the issue and decided testing all recipients was not cost effective, the Washington-based Center for Legal and Social Policy said in a study released in January.

Most states have drug assessment programs that do not include urine or blood tests. Some require drug tests from recipients who have been convicted of felony drug crimes.

During debate about the law, critics pointed to a pilot testing program in Florida that was shut down in 2001 after it showed no significant difference in drug use between welfare recipients and the population at large.

"The wasteful program created by this law subjects Floridians who are impacted by the economic downturn, as well as their families, to a humiliating search of their urine and body fluids without cause or even suspicion of drug abuse," said Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU Florida, in a statement.

(Editing by Colleen Jenkins and Ellen Wulfhorst)


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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: PassiveAgressive] * 1
    #14546525 - 06/01/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:

there is a difference between necessities and luxuries


--------------------
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to one who is striking at the root."
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Offlinekiss_the_sky03
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #14546558 - 06/01/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good deal. Awesome! I got in here before all the kids start posting about what a terrible social-injustice this is.


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Offlineh4x354x0r
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: kiss_the_sky03]
    #14546596 - 06/01/11 04:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

...then the ones with drug problems will turn to dealing drugs for money, instead of leeching off the state. It won't keep tax money from being spent on drug problems, it will just cause the tax money to be spent differently (and probably less effectively).


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Offlinepootie
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: h4x354x0r]
    #14546723 - 06/01/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What a terrible social-injustice this is.


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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: pootie]
    #14546947 - 06/01/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pootie said:
What a terrible social-injustice this is.



:grin:


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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: h4x354x0r]
    #14546965 - 06/01/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

h4x354x0r said:
...then the ones with drug problems will turn to dealing drugs for money, instead of leeching off the state. It won't keep tax money from being spent on drug problems, it will just cause the tax money to be spent differently (and probably less effectively).




Perhaps this is a little off topic, but it isn't. I personally know of individuals who sell their food-stamps for real cash and/or drugs. Mostly the former. It happens every month, usually towards the beginning. Anyway, they'll mostly succeed in coercing people to move to harder, less metabolically visible drugs and spend a TON of taxes there and thereafter.


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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14546966 - 06/01/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
:thumbup:

there is a difference between necessities and luxuries




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OfflineSickDog
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Mush 4 Brains] * 1
    #14547025 - 06/01/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i hope this becomes a trend amongst the rest of the states


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Offlinejerrylove
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: SickDog] * 1
    #14547850 - 06/01/11 08:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I find it refreshing that amongst shroomerites there is a consensus that tax dollars dont need to go to drug users or more specifically leeches on the system. I have to pass a drug test to make a pay check. I have taxes taken out of every check. Hell if it's ok for some slug to get to smoke dope (of all kinds) on my dime! Viva Libertarians!


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:mushroom2:THOSE WHO KNOW DONT TALK!:mad:THOSE WHO DONT KNOW CANT TALK.:smile: (Timothy Leary):mushroom2:
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OfflineDaramgeee
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: jerrylove] * 1
    #14548871 - 06/02/11 12:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm liking Florida already!!! :smile: If people want to buy drugs, then it should be done out of their pockets instead of hard earned tax money. Hope to see more of this policy in other states!


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Daramgeee]
    #14548922 - 06/02/11 12:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Why do you guys care so much that your tax $$ are not wasted this particular way? I could care less if 99% of my tax dollars went to buying someone crack, that money is going to be wasted by one govt entity or another, so somebody might as well get high off it.:shrug:


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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: thelivingfreekshow] * 3
    #14551259 - 06/02/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't like where any of this is going, Florida or the Shroomery. Cmon guys, we're better than that!


--------------------
 
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:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.


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Offlinedestructo_low
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: jerrylove] * 1
    #14551290 - 06/02/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jerrylove said:I have to pass a drug test to make a pay check. I have taxes taken out of every check.




I agree. Drug testing people on welfare is entirely fair. I wish they would use workfare programs instead of welfare though.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: destructo_low] * 1
    #14552112 - 06/02/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I am very torn on this issue.

I do not want my tax dollars going to someone so that they can get high. If someone's buying drugs with my money, they're fucking sharing with me.

On the flip side, this has the potential to fuck over a lot of families. For instance, a mother or a father on welfare with drug problems (not even a serious one necessarily- let's just say "pot") will not be able to feed their children. Not only that, but pot stays in your system for months; so now, welfare recipients are screwed out of the welfare system for months while they clean up.

At the end of the day though, you give up some freedoms when you're in a government program to receive welfare. People on probation get drug tested even when there is no suspicion that drug use is present; this is a bad example but a similar situation nonetheless.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: destructo_low] * 2
    #14552238 - 06/02/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

destructo_low said:
Quote:

jerrylove said:I have to pass a drug test to make a pay check. I have taxes taken out of every check.




I agree. Drug testing people on welfare is entirely fair. I wish they would use workfare programs instead of welfare though.




No it is not fair you fool. For you to support an escalation of the drug war because "I have to pass a drug test to get a job" is a just plain ignorant position to take. If you are getting your nose chopped off by these drug war supporting corporations you think it is wise to advocate that other people get their nose chopped off too? Get some good sense you are being played like a fiddle and have become a pro-drug war puppet for the state and corporations who own the government.


  You and others like you who support the drug war are full of hysteria and ignorance. Beer cannot be bought with electronic food stamps you moron. You think if people are somehow selling their food at 50% for some drugs that they cannot do that for alcohol and cigarettes?

You are illogical and full of rhetoric. With people taking your position it is little wonder people like Scott and other drug warriors get elected. Not to mention drug tests cost money and create bureaucracy. Wake up!


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: thelivingfreekshow]
    #14552987 - 06/02/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Why do you guys care so much that your tax $$ are not wasted this particular way? I could care less if 99% of my tax dollars went to buying someone crack, that money is going to be wasted by one govt entity or another, so somebody might as well get high off it.:shrug:




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Offlinekiss_the_sky03
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dondoodle] * 1
    #14553032 - 06/02/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dondoodle said:
Quote:

destructo_low said:
Quote:

jerrylove said:I have to pass a drug test to make a pay check. I have taxes taken out of every check.




I agree. Drug testing people on welfare is entirely fair. I wish they would use workfare programs instead of welfare though.




No it is not fair you fool. For you to support an escalation of the drug war because "I have to pass a drug test to get a job" is a just plain ignorant position to take. If you are getting your nose chopped off by these drug war supporting corporations you think it is wise to advocate that other people get their nose chopped off too? Get some good sense you are being played like a fiddle and have become a pro-drug war puppet for the state and corporations who own the government.


  You and others like you who support the drug war are full of hysteria and ignorance. Beer cannot be bought with electronic food stamps you moron. You think if people are somehow selling their food at 50% for some drugs that they cannot do that for alcohol and cigarettes?

You are illogical and full of rhetoric. With people taking your position it is little wonder people like Scott and other drug warriors get elected. Not to mention drug tests cost money and create bureaucracy. Wake up!




Wow, this made me laugh so hard. We are the ones full of rhetoric? says the guys with this as his sig "End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire"  You sure about that?


Edited by kiss_the_sky03 (06/02/11 10:04 PM)


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Offlinekiss_the_sky03
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: thelivingfreekshow]
    #14553056 - 06/02/11 10:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Why do you guys care so much that your tax $$ are not wasted this particular way? I could care less if 99% of my tax dollars went to buying someone crack, that money is going to be wasted by one govt entity or another, so somebody might as well get high off it.:shrug:







I don't consider building roads, hospitals, funding public schools to be more of a waste than allowing bums to use my money to get high without doing shit.


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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: kiss_the_sky03] * 1
    #14553182 - 06/02/11 10:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kiss_the_sky03 said:

Wow, this made me laugh so hard. We are the ones full of rhetoric? says the guys with this as his sig "End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire"  You sure about that?





Yeah, American Imperialism is murdering millions around the globe and has been for decades, so that is fact not some short largely fraudulent rhetoric. I know, I know the "food stamp people" are hawking their steaks for crack on the corner.

What is nice short rhetoric is "those welfare people buy drugs with food stamps" 

My statement is firmly based in reality and historical fact while yours is specious rhetoric.


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Offlinekiss_the_sky03
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dondoodle]
    #14553311 - 06/02/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dondoodle said:
Quote:

kiss_the_sky03 said:

Wow, this made me laugh so hard. We are the ones full of rhetoric? says the guys with this as his sig "End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire"  You sure about that?





Yeah, American Imperialism is murdering millions around the globe and has been for decades, so that is fact not some short largely fraudulent rhetoric. I know, I know the "food stamp people" are hawking their steaks for crack on the corner.

What is nice short rhetoric is "those welfare people buy drugs with food stamps" 

My statement is firmly based in reality and historical fact while yours is specious rhetoric.




Well I can't argue with that logic


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: kiss_the_sky03]
    #14553374 - 06/02/11 11:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kiss_the_sky03 said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Why do you guys care so much that your tax $$ are not wasted this particular way? I could care less if 99% of my tax dollars went to buying someone crack, that money is going to be wasted by one govt entity or another, so somebody might as well get high off it.:shrug:







I don't consider building roads, hospitals, funding public schools to be more of a waste than allowing bums to use my money to get high without doing shit.




First off its 2011, if the roads arent built by now we dont need em, hospitals are mostly privately owned and operated, and money sent into our education system might as well be burned, all the good that does, as the U.S. education system is a joke.
So please give all my tax money to crackheads. Its less of a waste.
Also sounds like youre jealous they get high for free and you gotta pay.:awehigh:


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Offlinekiss_the_sky03
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: thelivingfreekshow]
    #14555474 - 06/03/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

kiss_the_sky03 said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:
Quote:

thelivingfreekshow said:

Also sounds like youre jealous they get high for free and you gotta pay.:awehigh:




Ya, that's it. Damn, you really got me there! You kids are such a joke


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: kiss_the_sky03]
    #14562121 - 06/04/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ya, that's it. Damn, you really got me there! You kids are such a joke



you kids? :lolsy::ahahaha:



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dondoodle] * 1
    #14562214 - 06/04/11 10:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dondoodle said:
For you to support an escalation of the drug war because "I have to pass a drug test to get a job" is a just plain ignorant position to take. If you are getting your nose chopped off by these drug war supporting corporations you think it is wise to advocate that other people get their nose chopped off too? Get some good sense you are being played like a fiddle and have become a pro-drug war puppet for the state and corporations who own the government.


  You and others like you who support the drug war are full of hysteria and ignorance. Beer cannot be bought with electronic food stamps you moron. You think if people are somehow selling their food at 50% for some drugs that they cannot do that for alcohol and cigarettes?

You are illogical and full of rhetoric. With people taking your position it is little wonder people like Scott and other drug warriors get elected. Not to mention drug tests cost money and create bureaucracy. Wake up!


:mjk: :billymaythumbup: :winner:


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OfflineeatshrOOms88
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Adamist]
    #14562248 - 06/04/11 10:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

great now all the junkies low lives from florida are going to move to my state alabama not that a hate dug addicts but we really don't need their problems and to put out more money for lazy fucks that want a free ride of everyone else, welfare is bullshit being handicapped is one thing but these people are just lazy pieces of shit


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: eatshrOOms88]
    #14562285 - 06/04/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, watch it son... the mother of your God is but a lowly piece of shit.  :holyshit:  :dancingshroom:  :stinkyshroom:


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InvisibleveggieM

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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: PassiveAgressive] * 1
    #14562297 - 06/04/11 10:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There are too many laws as it is. And to create another one that specifically targets 'illicit' drug using poor living off public tax money seems very unfair.

To be completely fair they should include all drugs including alcohol and require testing of politicians, lawmakers, judges, law enforcement, and multi-billion dollar corporations who are the biggest leeches living off the public dole, starting with the President on down. You know, just to be fair.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: veggie]
    #14562365 - 06/04/11 10:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lolsy: Oh Veggie, your truth hurts so good.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: veggie] * 1
    #14563143 - 06/05/11 03:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This means nothing to me. Maybe a bit more hardship for my prole brethren.

However the money that will be spent for drug tests, the money that went into paying for this law to be made ("career politicians" :facepalm: ) is going to be a nice chunk. I wonder who got the drug testing kit contract.

All the while hardly any government workers are being drug tested for basically the same thing as these leeches. All on my dollars.

America is swell


--------------------
sucking dick for drink tickets
at the free bar at my cousin's bat mitzvah

zappateer said:
I'm not wasting time at school. I'm gaining hella knowledge and life experience, not trying to use my degree for financial gain.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: saxx]
    #14564349 - 06/05/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This law is incredible. I have been talking about this for the last 6 months.

EVERYONE who is on welfare shouldnt be drinking alcohol, smoking cigs, or any drugs. Hell they shouldnt even be able to rent a fucking movie if they are going to suck from the nipple of our system.

Great law! :thumbup:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dshow]
    #14564401 - 06/05/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
This law is incredible. I have been talking about this for the last 6 months.

EVERYONE who is on welfare shouldnt be drinking alcohol, smoking cigs, or any drugs. Hell they shouldnt even be able to rent a fucking movie if they are going to suck from the nipple of our system.

Great law! :thumbup:




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblebeachedjesus
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dondoodle]
    #14568196 - 06/06/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's a good thing they're drug testing the welfare recipients. I hope a lot of them fail and get their welfare taken away.

My mom spends all the food stamp money  on meth and then gets mad at  me when I eat too much. Know how she got food stamps? By lying to people and getting people to lie for her(which was probably illegal) God, I wish I could just ram a screwdriver deep into her ear.  :frown:  She got mad at me this morning for trying to take 3 dollars  off the tip for the pizza guy when she goes to Goodwill and switches the price stickers on the items for sale. Damn hypocrite mom. Yep, my mom steals from Goodwill. :frown:  I guess that's what a lot of women turn into... they get old and become unattractive so they just turn into druggies  who mooch off of their boyfriends who are too stupid to realize that the bitch isn't worth any more than a dog.


--------------------
hi


Edited by beachedjesus (06/06/11 06:09 AM)


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: veggie] * 1
    #14568253 - 06/06/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
This law is incredible. I have been talking about this for the last 6 months.

EVERYONE who is on welfare shouldnt be drinking alcohol, smoking cigs, or any drugs. Hell they shouldnt even be able to rent a fucking movie if they are going to suck from the nipple of our system.

Great law! :thumbup:





People who think like this, I think are absolutely crazy.



Quote:

veggie said:
There are too many laws as it is. And to create another one that specifically targets 'illicit' drug using poor living off public tax money seems very unfair.

To be completely fair they should include all drugs including alcohol and require testing of politicians, lawmakers, judges, law enforcement, and multi-billion dollar corporations who are the biggest leeches living off the public dole, starting with the President on down. You know, just to be fair.





People who think like this, are intelligent. :thumbup:

*the 200 dollars a month in food stamps one poor-ass down and out drug user gets a month is NOTHING compared to oil subsidies, and their toll on the countries tax burden. Why not get angry at the guy making 300000 a year who pays next to nothing in state taxes, not some poor mother fucker that you would KILL YOURSELF if you had to walk a mile in his shoes. Living as a down and out drug abuser SUCKS, it is not fun and no one wants to live like that. If you think "these people on welfare" are really the problem, I think your looking in the wrong place :shrug:


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14568266 - 06/06/11 06:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

so if you claim to not have enough money to feed your kids, and therefore need assistance, while in reality you are spending money elsewhere (be it drugs, gambling, drink, whatever) this is OK?

the fact of the matter is that people on welfare need to learn what their priorities are.  drug test every single one of them. 

get rid of oil subsidies as well.  get rid of subsidies of every type, including subsidizing poverty.  robbing peter to pay paul results in the downfall of every developed civilization throughout history.  especially when there are more pauls to "vote" for the looting via "democracy."

people who think like you, i think are naive and intellectually undeveloped.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568282 - 06/06/11 07:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
so if you claim to not have enough money to feed your kids, and therefore need assistance, while in reality you are spending money elsewhere (be it drugs, gambling, drink, whatever) this is OK?

the fact of the matter is that people on welfare need to learn what their priorities are.  drug test every single one of them. 

get rid of oil subsidies as well.  get rid of subsidies of every type, including subsidizing poverty.  robbing peter to pay paul results in the downfall of every developed civilization throughout history.  especially when there are more pauls to "vote" for the looting via "democracy."

people who think like you, i think are naive and intellectually undeveloped.





ahahaha maybe naive but definitely not "intellectually undeveloped" :thebird:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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Offlinesaxx
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568288 - 06/06/11 07:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
so if you claim to not have enough money to feed your kids, and therefore need assistance, while in reality you are spending money elsewhere (be it drugs, gambling, drink, whatever) this is OK?

the fact of the matter is that people on welfare need to learn what their priorities are.  drug test every single one of them. 

get rid of oil subsidies as well.  get rid of subsidies of every type, including subsidizing poverty.  robbing peter to pay paul results in the downfall of every developed civilization throughout history.  especially when there are more pauls to "vote" for the looting via "democracy."

people who think like you, i think are naive and intellectually undeveloped.




One word: Priorities.


Ok, no more wellfare people spending it on drugs (oh wait lul, they'll just be paying twice as much for drugs now).

The system is still broken and the war budget is still x1000 times more than these people on welfare can ever hope to get.

I swear, everyone that supports any kind of new legislation has their priorities completely wrong. I realize you have to start somewhere. But this is just insignificant in every way.

Support the law or not, our country (the US) is failing in many ways.


--------------------
sucking dick for drink tickets
at the free bar at my cousin's bat mitzvah

zappateer said:
I'm not wasting time at school. I'm gaining hella knowledge and life experience, not trying to use my degree for financial gain.


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: saxx]
    #14568294 - 06/06/11 07:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

saxx said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
so if you claim to not have enough money to feed your kids, and therefore need assistance, while in reality you are spending money elsewhere (be it drugs, gambling, drink, whatever) this is OK?

the fact of the matter is that people on welfare need to learn what their priorities are.  drug test every single one of them. 

get rid of oil subsidies as well.  get rid of subsidies of every type, including subsidizing poverty.  robbing peter to pay paul results in the downfall of every developed civilization throughout history.  especially when there are more pauls to "vote" for the looting via "democracy."

people who think like you, i think are naive and intellectually undeveloped.




One word: Priorities.


Ok, no more wellfare people spending it on drugs (oh wait lul, they'll just be paying twice as much for drugs now).

The system is still broken and the war budget is still x1000 times more than these people on welfare can ever hope to get.

I swear, everyone that supports any kind of new legislation has their priorities completely wrong. I realize you have to start somewhere. But this is just insignificant in every way.

Support the law or not, our country (the US) is failing in many ways.





Your right, it is about priorities. I do not know for sure but I bet you that the amount of money spent by the state on welfare pales in comparison to MANY other things. This is just something that "the masses" easily get riled up over, and they actually think they are making an "improvement" by making it just a little harder for those who are screwing the system to screw the system. They are not.

The people screwing the system will now just screw the piss tests to get there money. WOW GOOD JOB GUUUYS :congrats:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #14568404 - 06/06/11 08:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
:thumbup:

there is a difference between necessities and luxuries





I am sorry I just gotta say one more thing about all of this....


Yea, really? LUXURIES? Lets put this in perspective here...

Quote:

Federal law allows states to screen for drug use under the TANF program, which provides a maximum $300 a month cash assistance to needy families. The program, which replaced traditional welfare in the mid 1990s, has a 48-month lifetime cap on benefits.




Do the math. Families are allowed to get, at maximum, 14,400 dollars throughout their life. That is only 3600 dollars a year.

Yea they are REALLY living in the "lap of luxury" in this program. Man, I wish I MADE 3600 a year, I would be a king ! /sarcasm

This is what should turn off those who are not "intellectually undeveloped"

Quote:

The wasteful program created by this law subjects Floridians who are impacted by the economic downturn, as well as their families, to a humiliating search of their urine and body fluids without cause or even suspicion of drug abuse," said Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU Florida, in a statement.




3600 dollars a year is validation enough for you guys to break American citizens constitutional rights? yall are cheap bastards ya know?! :smirk:

This is ignoring the fact that simple drug tests are easily beaten...nothing good will come out of this law, nothing

Sorry I am done ranting now :grin:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14568633 - 06/06/11 09:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
:thumbup:

there is a difference between necessities and luxuries





I am sorry I just gotta say one more thing about all of this....


Yea, really? LUXURIES? Lets put this in perspective here...






you entirely missed the point.  drugs, booze, cigs, etc are LUXURIES.  if you are downtrodden enough to require public assistance, you shouldn't be spending money on ANY of these things.  queue getting life priorities in order.  some people just need a harsh reality check to set their priorities straight.  drug testing welfare recipients helps to do that.


your proclaimed constitutional right to use the state as a means to take money from someone else so you can spend it on drugs?  i'll be waiting for you to show that one to me. 

the real constitutional right is that of peter's, not to be robbed in the first place in order to pay paul.  paul has no "constitutional right" to peter's money as you are implying.


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Offlinesaxx
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568658 - 06/06/11 09:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
:thumbup:

there is a difference between necessities and luxuries





I am sorry I just gotta say one more thing about all of this....


Yea, really? LUXURIES? Lets put this in perspective here...






you entirely missed the point.  drugs, booze, cigs, etc are LUXURIES.  if you are downtrodden enough to require public assistance, you shouldn't be spending money on ANY of these things.  queue getting life priorities in order.  some people just need a harsh reality check to set their priorities straight.  drug testing welfare recipients helps to do that.


your proclaimed constitutional right to use the state as a means to take money from someone else so you can spend it on drugs?  i'll be waiting for you to show that one to me. 

the real constitutional right is that of peter's, not to be robbed in the first place in order to pay paul.  paul has no "constitutional right" to peter's money as you are implying.





You're missing the point. This isn't even a small victory, it prevents nothing. You should be worried a whole lot more about your government robbing peter to pay paul. Not trying to keep your brethren down.


--------------------
sucking dick for drink tickets
at the free bar at my cousin's bat mitzvah

zappateer said:
I'm not wasting time at school. I'm gaining hella knowledge and life experience, not trying to use my degree for financial gain.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: saxx]
    #14568688 - 06/06/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

what i'm saying is that if you agree to violating peter's rights to his property and fruits of his labor by confiscating a portion of it, you might as well ensure that paul is using the funds on NECESSITIES, and not LUXURIES.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Offlinesaxx
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568707 - 06/06/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
what i'm saying is that if you agree to violating peter's rights to his property and fruits of his labor by confiscating a portion of it, you might as well ensure that paul is using the funds on NECESSITIES, and not LUXURIES.




Your concept is sound.

However the practicality of this situation is that is prevents nothing.


--------------------
sucking dick for drink tickets
at the free bar at my cousin's bat mitzvah

zappateer said:
I'm not wasting time at school. I'm gaining hella knowledge and life experience, not trying to use my degree for financial gain.


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OfflineDrGreenThumb865
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: saxx]
    #14568716 - 06/06/11 10:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would agree with this law if it applied only to hard drugs... Or at least applied to all drugs in general (alcohol and cigarettes included)

It's hypocritical to say it's ok to spend your welfare check on booze and cigs but if you smoke a joint you can just live on the streets. Florida is turning into the most hypocritical state out there and it's Gov. Scott that's doing it. :facepalm:


--------------------
:mushdance:




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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568866 - 06/06/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
what i'm saying is that if you agree to violating peter's rights to his property and fruits of his labor by confiscating a portion of it, you might as well ensure that paul is using the funds on NECESSITIES, and not LUXURIES.



:super: well said


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #14568895 - 06/06/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
what i'm saying is that if you agree to violating peter's rights to his property and fruits of his labor by confiscating a portion of it, you might as well ensure that paul is using the funds on NECESSITIES, and not LUXURIES.





What is also wrong with what you are saying is your assumption that this 300 dollars is only spent on drugs. That is, quite frankly, stupid. And what, if you fail a drug test, does that mean you only spend that 300 a month on drugs? No, not at all, your assumptions about "these people on welfare" are bogus and unsound. Your basing all your fears of the situation on nothing.

Here is a likely scenario; poor ass on welfare has a relative that smokes tons of weed. This relative allows the poor ass to smoke weed with him when he is around (aka, NOT PAYING FOR IT). Then, guy gets drug tested and his money is taken away, because silly people like you assume that a drug tests = spends all his money on drugs.

:thumbdown:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568914 - 06/06/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
the fact of the matter is that people on welfare need to learn what their priorities are.  drug test every single one of them. 






It becomes problematic when we create arbitrary conditions like this and tell people what their priorities are.

- Should we limit cell phone ownership by welfare recipients?
- What about cars?
- Can we dictate where they live, where they go to school, etc?
- What about church?  Welfare recipients should be looking for jobs, not god.

Why stop at drug testing?  Might as well set forth a variety of conditions in order to get welfare.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14568928 - 06/06/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

t
Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
what i'm saying is that if you agree to violating peter's rights to his property and fruits of his labor by confiscating a portion of it, you might as well ensure that paul is using the funds on NECESSITIES, and not LUXURIES.





What is also wrong with what you are saying is your assumption that this 300 dollars is only spent on drugs. That is, quite frankly, stupid. And what, if you fail a drug test, does that mean you only spend that 300 a month on drugs? No, not at all, your assumptions about "these people on welfare" are bogus and unsound. Your basing all your fears of the situation on nothing.

Here is a likely scenario; poor ass on welfare has a relative that smokes tons of weed. This relative allows the poor ass to smoke weed with him when he is around (aka, NOT PAYING FOR IT). Then, guy gets drug tested and his money is taken away, because silly people like you assume that a drug tests = spends all his money on drugs.

:thumbdown:




Great argument. I can personally testify that I have a friend that provides me alcohol even though I am often broke.


--------------------
End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14568934 - 06/06/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
what i'm saying is that if you agree to violating peter's rights to his property and fruits of his labor by confiscating a portion of it, you might as well ensure that paul is using the funds on NECESSITIES, and not LUXURIES.





What is also wrong with what you are saying is your assumption that this 300 dollars is only spent on drugs. That is, quite frankly, stupid. And what, if you fail a drug test, does that mean you only spend that 300 a month on drugs? No, not at all, your assumptions about "these people on welfare" are bogus and unsound. Your basing all your fears of the situation on nothing.

:thumbdown:





i'd be willing to bet there are far more cases of abusing the system than there would be of accidental "false positives" like the one in your tortured hypothetical situation.  the majority of the firsthand accounts in this thread confirm this.

and you still aren't grasping the situation.  if an individual has enough extra money lying around to buy booze/cigs/weed/whatever, he/she needs to stop buying those LUXURIES before getting public assistance out of someone else's pocket.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: PassiveAgressive] * 5
    #14568943 - 06/06/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

wow im shocked that so many people support any kind of testing for illegal substances ... what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ? most people need that self medication because their situations are so destitute from being downtrodden by the government you are applauding ... some of you ppl are ignorant as fuck , still kids under mommy and daddies wing ...

so if i grow some bud to smoke or grow some mush to trade for some bud or smoke some of my buddies herb and i come up positive im a bad person bringing down society ? the only real effectiveness in this test is for marijuana and opiates ... all the crack heads and meth heads will still do what they do as those drugs are almost impossible to pin down in window frames ... so basically you support the continued persecution of pot heads ... real nice ... faggots


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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14568947 - 06/06/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
i'd be willing to bet there are far more cases of abusing the system than there would be of accidental "false positives" like the one in your tortured hypothetical situation.  the majority of the firsthand accounts in this thread confirm this.




If you read this thread you would not have made this post. Unless you have extreme bias, which is highly possible.


--------------------
End American imperialism and colonization around the world and among the people conquered within the domestic empire.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14568950 - 06/06/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
wow im shocked that so many people support any kind of testing for illegal substances ... what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ? most people need that self medication because their situations are so destitute from being downtrodden by the government you are applauding ... some of you ppl are ignorant as fuck , still kids under mommy and daddies wing ...

so if i grow some bud to smoke or grow some mush to trade for some bud and i smoke it and come up positive im a bad person bringing down society ? the only real effectiveness in this test is for marijuana and opiates ... all the crack heads and meth heads will still do what they do as those drugs are almost impossible to pin down in window frames ... so basically you support the continued persecution of pot heads ... real nice ... faggots





^^ a great example of not even understanding the issue being debated.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14568958 - 06/06/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ?




It's been said several times. If you have money to spend on recreational drugs, you don't need welfare.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dondoodle]
    #14568963 - 06/06/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dondoodle said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
i'd be willing to bet there are far more cases of abusing the system than there would be of accidental "false positives" like the one in your tortured hypothetical situation.  the majority of the firsthand accounts in this thread confirm this.




If you read this thread you would not have made this post. Unless you have extreme bias, which is highly possible.





i had the first response on this thread, and have been reading it since then.  give it a read to see that you are wrong.  remember, FIRSTHAND accounts.  not tortured hypotheticals.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #14568965 - 06/06/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
i'd be willing to bet there are far more cases of abusing the system than there would be of accidental "false positives" like the one in your tortured hypothetical situation.  the majority of the firsthand accounts in this thread confirm this.





I did not describe a "false positive", what are you talking about? What makes what I said a "false positive"? The guy, whoever, would test positive for drugs because he is using cannabis; he just does not pay for it, so your silly "all drug users spend all their money on drugs" would be FALSE. Is what you are saying the "false positive", eh? And how is that situation "tortured", you have never seen someone ingest drugs without paying for them? Or are you the type that makes your buddies chip in 5 bucks when you smoke a bowl with them or something, no freebies?

I am saying this; yes, people abuse the system, but denying benefits based on the results of a drug test is wrong because a positive drug test does not indicate, by itself, that the person in question is using his state money to buy drugs. I get that this has happened before, but still, a drug test is no accurate proof of this.


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 4
    #14568974 - 06/06/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

whos spending money ? you dont have to spend money to get high ... both of you you sound like cops or polititicians ... go fuck yourselves :thumbup:


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14568983 - 06/06/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Who gets to decide what's a "luxury" and what's a "necessity"?

This is the problem.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14568985 - 06/06/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good for you.

Most people put a little thought into their responses.

How nice to see someone who doesn't feel the need.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14568999 - 06/06/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
whos spending money ? you dont have to spend money to get high ... both of you you sound like cops or polititicians ... go fuck yourselves :thumbup:




nope, just people willing to defend peter against the pauls of the world. 

i don't agree with welfare at all.  neither for individuals nor for corporations.

voluntary donation is the answer, not forced confiscation.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat] * 1
    #14569016 - 06/06/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ?




It's been said several times. If you have money to spend on recreational drugs, you don't need welfare.





Ya know, a "hard drug addict" would find little comfort in 300 dollars a month. You think that kind of money would support a habit? Come on, please, there is no way. Many hard drug addicts steal and do terrible things to get that money.

Which actually supports my point; these people need help, not punishments. That is one of the major problems with our countries entire outlook on drug enforcement, and why this shit will never go away. You treat them like monsters, lock* them up and throw away the key, and what, you think 5 years later they will walk out of prison ready to be "good"? No, those 5 years just turned them into a REAL criminal, and now they are 10 times a bigger problem. This legislation helps nothing

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
whos spending money ? you dont have to spend money to get high ... both of you you sound like cops or polititicians ... go fuck yourselves :thumbup:




nope, just people willing to defend peter against the pauls of the world. 

i don't agree with welfare at all.  neither for individuals nor for corporations.

voluntary donation is the answer, not forced confiscation.





Well ya know what, I think welfare is a fundamental right of every citizen in the United States. Since welfare was instituted, it has done a lot more good than harm, and I think it is a piece of American history to be proud of, amongst a slew of ridiculous bullshit.

Go live in another country if you don't like it. Not western Europe though, they are a bunch of socialists you would hate it :smirk: maybe China is right for you


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14569040 - 06/06/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:facepalm:

what?  i would hate socialism so i should aim for fullbore communism instead?

welfare is a fundamental right, eh?  where exactly is that documented?

so this "right" overrides anyone else's right to their property?  paul has a "right" to peter's stuff if he doesn't have enough of his own?

it is this mindset that has resulted in the downfall of every great human civilization throughout history.  hopefully the US will be different, but the fact that individuals such as yourself believe this crap doesn't make me hopeful.  this is the rot at the core of the system.

democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch.  in your world, if the pauls make up 51% of the voting population, there is nothing to stop them from oppressing the 49% peters.  this is why we have a constitution, to prevent the looting of other people's property and wealth that you are advocating.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat] * 4
    #14569053 - 06/06/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

bet youre a little rich boy that had a silver spoon up his ass his whole life until someone in the family died and left you a nice little starting package in the game of life ... i got a 7 month old and a record form 15 years ago keeping me out of work .... im on foodstamps right now and i trade mush for all my bud ... so basically you support the government taking food out of my babies mouth because i get high ... i mean lets just forget the government put most of us in this position in the first place utilizing the resources of the country for their own agendas ... but hells yeah you say lets fuck some more ppl over ! you act like welfare is the sole reason for our shit economy ... why dont you support ending pointless wars or other out of touch government agendas rather than going after the less fortunate ... pampered scumbag


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14569058 - 06/06/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
:facepalm:

what?  i would hate socialism so i should aim for fullbore communism instead?

welfare is a fundamental right, eh?  where exactly is that documented?

so this "right" overrides anyone else's right to their property?  paul has a "right" to peter's stuff if he doesn't have enough of his own?

it is this mindset that has resulted in the downfall of every great human civilization throughout history.  hopefully the US will be different, but the fact that individuals such as yourself believe this crap doesn't make me hopeful.  this is the rot at the core of the system.





Where is it documented?!?!? Read a history textbook jesus!!

The first social welfare program was instituted AFTER THE GREAT DEPRESSION. Your an idiot dude, no ones "right to property" is infringed upon by welfare, my lord. After the 1996 reforms, the idea of welfare was changed from "living off the government" to "help while finding employment", so you have no reason to complain anyway. Money was tremendously cut, and the reforms basically make it IMPOSSIBLE to live comfortably off of social welfare. Your so ignorant on this subject you don't even understand what your defending


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14569063 - 06/06/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

And the China comment was a joke dude ~


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14569068 - 06/06/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

lol, when your argument fails you can always resort to ad hominem and personal attacks.  there's quite a high correlation there.

and nope, you're wrong.  no silver spoon here.  just a hard worker who doesn't want a dime that he hasn't earned.

i don't support government taking food out of your babies mouth.  what you don't realize is that "food" was taken from someone else using government force.  as soon as you believe you have a "right" to someone else's stuff, and you can take it by using government force as a tool for confiscating from other individuals, your society is headed down a dangerous road to destruction.

Quote:

why dont you support ending pointless wars or other out of touch government agendas rather than going after the less fortunate ... pampered scumbag




i do support ending the wars.  and all the other unsustainable agendas.  i'm all for individual, constitutional, inalienable rights.  one of which is the right to my property and the fruits of my labor.  don't get me wrong.  i can VOLUNTARILY DONATE as much money to charity that i want, but i don't agree with using government force as a tool for experiments in social engineering that require the violation of individual rights for the "greater good."

  i don't agree with robbing peter to pay paul.  you do.  fine.  as long as you are aware of your position, we agree to disagree.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (06/06/11 12:02 PM)


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14569073 - 06/06/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

you act like welfare is the sole reason for our shit economy



No but its a big reason.  “We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork”-Milton Friedman


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14569076 - 06/06/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ?




It's been said several times. If you have money to spend on recreational drugs, you don't need welfare.





Ya know, a "hard drug addict" would find little comfort in 300 dollars a month. You think that kind of money would support a habit? Come on, please, there is no way. Many hard drug addicts steal and do terrible things to get that money.

Which actually supports my point; these people need help, not punishments. That is one of the major problems with our countries entire outlook on drug enforcement, and why this shit will never go away. You treat them like monsters, lock* them up and throw away the key, and what, you think 5 years later they will walk out of prison ready to be "good"? No, those 5 years just turned them into a REAL criminal, and now they are 10 times a bigger problem. This legislation helps nothing




So, we've established one poster put little to no thought into their response. Now, you've made it clear you don't take the time to read the words of the person you are responding to.

Do you dazzle people that way on a regular basis?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14569087 - 06/06/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
lol, when your argument fails you can always resort to ad hominem and personal attacks.  there's quite a high correlation there.

and nope, you're wrong.  no silver spoon here.  just a hard worker who doesn't want a dime that he hasn't earned.

i don't support government taking food out of your babies mouth.  what you don't realize is that "food" was taken from someone else using government force.  as soon as you believe you have a "right" to someone else's stuff, and you can take it by using government force as a tool for confiscating from other individuals, your society is headed down a dangerous road to destruction.





The government does not steal from YOU to pay for social welfare, I am sorry but you live in a fantasy world. Is paying taxes "robbing" you to? Yea America is not for you for suuure....


Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ?




It's been said several times. If you have money to spend on recreational drugs, you don't need welfare.





Ya know, a "hard drug addict" would find little comfort in 300 dollars a month. You think that kind of money would support a habit? Come on, please, there is no way. Many hard drug addicts steal and do terrible things to get that money.

Which actually supports my point; these people need help, not punishments. That is one of the major problems with our countries entire outlook on drug enforcement, and why this shit will never go away. You treat them like monsters, lock* them up and throw away the key, and what, you think 5 years later they will walk out of prison ready to be "good"? No, those 5 years just turned them into a REAL criminal, and now they are 10 times a bigger problem. This legislation helps nothing




So, we've established one poster put little to no thought into their response. Now, you've made it clear you don't take the time to read the words of the person you are responding to.

Do you dazzle people that way on a regular basis?





I don't understand why you think I put no thought into this. You are not right that "if you have the money to spend on drugs, you don't need welfare", sorry dude that's just not true all the time.


I don't need to convince anyone, and I am not attacking anyone, I am just trying to speak some sanity. I will stop cluttering the board so there is more room for you guys to cry about the crimes of social welfare.


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #14569120 - 06/06/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
lol, when your argument fails you can always resort to ad hominem and personal attacks.  there's quite a high correlation there.

and nope, you're wrong.  no silver spoon here.  just a hard worker who doesn't want a dime that he hasn't earned.

i don't support government taking food out of your babies mouth.  what you don't realize is that "food" was taken from someone else using government force.  as soon as you believe you have a "right" to someone else's stuff, and you can take it by using government force as a tool for confiscating from other individuals, your society is headed down a dangerous road to destruction.





The government does not steal from YOU to pay for social welfare, I am sorry but you live in a fantasy world. Is paying taxes "robbing" you to? Yea America is not for you for suuure....




They take money from me under threat of violence and/or imprisonment. Sure as hell is theft. The constitution limits the powers of the federal fuckheads. Nowhere does it say that the feds can redistribute income.


Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

LongStrangeTrip said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ?




It's been said several times. If you have money to spend on recreational drugs, you don't need welfare.





Ya know, a "hard drug addict" would find little comfort in 300 dollars a month. You think that kind of money would support a habit? Come on, please, there is no way. Many hard drug addicts steal and do terrible things to get that money.

Which actually supports my point; these people need help, not punishments. That is one of the major problems with our countries entire outlook on drug enforcement, and why this shit will never go away. You treat them like monsters, lock* them up and throw away the key, and what, you think 5 years later they will walk out of prison ready to be "good"? No, those 5 years just turned them into a REAL criminal, and now they are 10 times a bigger problem. This legislation helps nothing




So, we've established one poster put little to no thought into their response. Now, you've made it clear you don't take the time to read the words of the person you are responding to.

Do you dazzle people that way on a regular basis?





I don't understand why you think I put no thought into this.




It's painfully obvious. If you have the ability to get high, you have the ability to do without my money. You have either spent my money, or you have spent your time. Spend your time looking for work.


Quote:

You are not right that "if you have the money to spend on drugs, you don't need welfare", sorry dude that's just not true all the time.




It is indeed true. If you have money to spend on recreational drugs, you have no need for welfare. They should test for booze and cigs as well. If you have the money for that, you don't need my money.


Quote:

I don't need to convince anyone, and I am not attacking anyone, I am just trying to speak some sanity. I will stop cluttering the board so there is more room for you guys to cry about the crimes of social welfare.




Wish I could say I'll miss ya. But I figure you won't actually do what you said anyway.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Mush 4 Brains] * 4
    #14569145 - 06/06/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:

you act like welfare is the sole reason for our shit economy



No but its a big reason.  “We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork”-Milton Friedman




yeah of course because there is no fucking work to be "worked" ... its not the individual thats at the root of this subsidized "nonwork" its the 3 trillion in debt dubya put us in funding a 10 year war on terror across the world ... he crashed our economy and handed it over to another equally stupid obama and so the cycle goes on ... why punish the common man for something that isnt any of the governments business ? there would be no need for increased subsidizing had this not happened ... but it has so now its time to make shit right for all the jobs lost and struggling families ... happy to see yall made it out of it ok ... some of us got serious issues though for one reason or another ... mfers need to quit being so fucking selfish and stop taking taxes so fucking personal like theyre the only ones having them taken from their check lol ...

these days you never know ... maybe youll get fucked up somehow and be unable to work and then YOU are gonna need some subsidization ...

maybe all the poor people should just be executed eh ? so then all these poor poor ppl getting a couple bucks taken from their checks can save those dollars up for that new ipod theyve been thinking about !.. i mean fuck humanity right ? we want some toys n shit ! suvs that guzzle 10 times more than is being taken from their checks ! big ! more ! fuck those poor people !... sick


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14569157 - 06/06/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14569161 - 06/06/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

go forth thy police state! lost jobs and imploding economy by design :grin: we're all fucked soon


--------------------
:crazyeyes::eek: :thirdeyeani:


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14569177 - 06/06/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:




start watching at 1:50


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OfflineYrat
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14569241 - 06/06/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:








--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14569277 - 06/06/11 12:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:




start watching at 1:50




right-wing propaganda ... heard enough of it already to last me 10 lifetimes ...


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Offlinedondoodle
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific] * 2
    #14572845 - 06/07/11 03:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Alcohol and nicotine and tobacco are not being tested for in Florida. That contradiction alone ends this supposed argument.

Look at the top of the screen apparently JPMorgan Chase is in on the
electronic money for food program - https://www.ebtaccount.jpmorgan.com/JPM_EFS/

Oh look at this the food money is actually electronic and can only be used at stores that accept EBT in Florida - http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/access/ebt/


Edited by dondoodle (06/07/11 04:06 AM)


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Yrat]
    #14574399 - 06/07/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
wow im shocked that so many people support any kind of testing for illegal substances ... what the fuck does being on welfare have to do with drug use ? most people need that self medication because their situations are so destitute from being downtrodden by the government you are applauding ... some of you ppl are ignorant as fuck , still kids under mommy and daddies wing ...

so if i grow some bud to smoke or grow some mush to trade for some bud and i smoke it and come up positive im a bad person bringing down society ? the only real effectiveness in this test is for marijuana and opiates ... all the crack heads and meth heads will still do what they do as those drugs are almost impossible to pin down in window frames ... so basically you support the continued persecution of pot heads ... real nice ... faggots





^^ a great example of not even understanding the issue being debated.





And he calls us ignorant.... :laugh2:


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14574427 - 06/07/11 01:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
bet youre a little rich boy that had a silver spoon up his ass his whole life until someone in the family died and left you a nice little starting package in the game of life ... i got a 7 month old and a record form 15 years ago keeping me out of work .... im on foodstamps right now and i trade mush for all my bud ... so basically you support the government taking food out of my babies mouth because i get high ... i mean lets just forget the government put most of us in this position in the first place utilizing the resources of the country for their own agendas ... but hells yeah you say lets fuck some more ppl over ! you act like welfare is the sole reason for our shit economy ... why dont you support ending pointless wars or other out of touch government agendas rather than going after the less fortunate ... pampered scumbag






bro i support the government not giving handouts. Maybe... Just maybe... you shouldnt of had a kid. But i guess its too late now :shrug: Why you even smoking if your on food stamps? man ... go work or something.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dshow]
    #14574446 - 06/07/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I hate that they dont test for everything. They really should. I think im going to go get some food stamps this week even though i dont need them :shrug:


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dshow]
    #14574515 - 06/07/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
Quote:

cyantific said:
bet youre a little rich boy that had a silver spoon up his ass his whole life until someone in the family died and left you a nice little starting package in the game of life ... i got a 7 month old and a record form 15 years ago keeping me out of work .... im on foodstamps right now and i trade mush for all my bud ... so basically you support the government taking food out of my babies mouth because i get high ... i mean lets just forget the government put most of us in this position in the first place utilizing the resources of the country for their own agendas ... but hells yeah you say lets fuck some more ppl over ! you act like welfare is the sole reason for our shit economy ... why dont you support ending pointless wars or other out of touch government agendas rather than going after the less fortunate ... pampered scumbag






bro i support the government not giving handouts. Maybe... Just maybe... you shouldnt of had a kid. But i guess its too late now :shrug: Why you even smoking if your on food stamps? man ... go work or something.



Wo brah, you're starting to sound like some racist conservative that hates the poor brah man bro dude.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #14574563 - 06/07/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe i am BROussy 



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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dshow]
    #14574575 - 06/07/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Its a good thang we got people like me keeping people like you from polluting the system.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dshow]
    #14574591 - 06/07/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
Its a good thang we got people like me keeping people like you from polluting the system.




Get over yourself.

The system is broken and ill-advised.


--------------------
sucking dick for drink tickets
at the free bar at my cousin's bat mitzvah

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I'm not wasting time at school. I'm gaining hella knowledge and life experience, not trying to use my degree for financial gain.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: saxx]
    #14574607 - 06/07/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:lolsy:


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OfflineLuigisDeathRace
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: dshow]
    #14575249 - 06/07/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:  :gethigh:


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OfflineDrGreenThumb865
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: LuigisDeathRace]
    #14575379 - 06/07/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The law is most likely unconstitutional...

A Michigan law similar to this one was struck down in 2000 and affirmed in 2003 by the 6th Circuit. Michigan lawmakers had enacted a law allowing for suspicion-less searches of welfare recipients. A class action lawsuit was brought by applicants alleging that these drug tests violated the Fourth Amendment. The applicants won.

:2cents:


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: DrGreenThumb865]
    #14578890 - 06/08/11 09:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I grew up in a situation where everyone around me was trading food stamps for booze/drugs. I've seen rounds of poker being played with food stamps and joints as currency.

Surely, things have changed with the EBT cards and whatnot, but I know from experience, users will always find a way to use. Maybe they'll trade 6lbs. of filet mignon's they bought with their card for a half oz. or whatever...

The not-testing-for-booze thing is a bit ridiculous though. Back in the day, my mom got a check she could cash, in addition to food stamps. She'd cash that check and her and my stepdad would be right at the bar drinking it away. For the first ten years of my life, I'd say the taxpayers and the government threw my mother/stepdad a hell of a party!

Obviously, I think the testing is a great idea. But I have *a lot* of negative feelings towards the welfare system all around. The above is a HUGE part of that.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: Rev Drucifer] * 1
    #14579645 - 06/08/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

so a couple bad apples justify violating the majorities rights to be free of targeted drug testing eh ? thats the same kind of reasoning that is behind the patriot act , 1 event causing the stripping of rights for the whole country ...

i mean lets just forget the fact that the shit economy in this country is almost a direct result of copious foreign aid , a 10 year war in the middle east , and countless jobs/contracts being sent overseas ... but here we are attacking the less fortunate ppl in our own country for bringing down the economy ... too funny


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: cyantific]
    #14582549 - 06/08/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
so a couple bad apples justify violating the majorities rights to be free of targeted drug testing eh ? thats the same kind of reasoning that is behind the patriot act , 1 event causing the stripping of rights for the whole country ...

i mean lets just forget the fact that the shit economy in this country is almost a direct result of copious foreign aid , a 10 year war in the middle east , and countless jobs/contracts being sent overseas ... but here we are attacking the less fortunate ppl in our own country for bringing down the economy ... too funny





How is it attacking our own people? I mean hell your getting free stuff.


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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #16360688 - 06/10/12 11:41 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I've scanned all the comments on this thread, and there's one very important key piece of information that seems to have escaped us all:

Cost of Florida's Drug Testing: ~$178,000,000
Percentage Denied Benefits: ~2%
Amount Saved by Denying Benefits: ~$60,000

TOTAL COST TO TAXPAYERS: ~$177,000,000


Anyone here who thinks this is going to save taxpayer money, is a MORON. Fact is, this program will just make 100 times more of your tax money go to the drug testing companies, which Gov. Walker founded:

"While the state of Florida may not save much money from rejected applicants, drug-testing has led to a personal windfall for Scott who  founded the company awarded the sole contract for the testing. In April, he sold his stock for $62 million." (PLSWEB.ORG)

This is just a wedge issue, plain and simple. It's using one group of people to attack another group of people, while the ones promoting the conflict are the ones selling pitchforks and torches, and taking everyone's money. If you support such policies, you support the police state, oppressive drug control laws, and everything that comes with.

If you support such horrendously taxpayer money wasting policies for some selfish-righteous moralistic financially-based principle, you're a fucking MORON. It's going to cost you 100 times more to keep a handful of welfare cheats from getting high on tax money, than it would cost to just let them get high.

This law doubles down on drug criminalization. If you support increased drug criminalization, I can understand supporting this law. Otherwise, you've been sold a bill of goods. This law does not do what you think it does, it just wastes MORE of your tax money.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002295591
http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/aug/24/3/welfare-drug-testing-yields-2-percent-positive-res-ar-252458/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html
http://pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/florida-drug-test-results.html
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/florida-didnt-save-money-by-drug-testing-welfare-recipients-data-shows/1225721

So again... if you think this is going to save your or your state taxpayer money, you are a MORON. You're getting all righteous about a kid stealing a piece of bubblegum, but don't seem to notice the shop owner overcharging you by $50 (supposedly to keep you from having to be overcharged to pay for the 5 cent piece of bubble gum).

It appeals to moralistic minds, but it doesn't make one bit of economic sense. The fact that so many here are incensed about the economic issues of welfare drug use, but fail to consider the economic impact of the testing itself, indicates a lot of people aren't thinking clearly and rationally.

Besides, you think they won't eventually come for you too? Good luck with that.


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Re: [FL] Florida to test all welfare recipients for drugs [Re: h4x354x0r]
    #16360749 - 06/10/12 11:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

^^god damn are you ever correct sir, thank you


--------------------
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