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OfflineMycomush
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Registered: 03/15/11
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: NSF]
    #14418165 - 05/08/11 04:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

For those of you fruiting outside out of hessian or burlap bags - how do you go about it? What I mean is, are you cutting holes in the bags for the mushrooms to fruit through or do they push through the bags or what? Is colonization allowed to happen outside as well?

Cheers and I apologize if this has already been covered.

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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Mycomush]
    #14422634 - 05/08/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I just let mine find their own way out.  They never seem to have problems.  Once the bags have fruited for awhile they sometimes start fruiting in the bag but at that point i just open the whole bag up.

I do everything outside.  I mix my bags then plop them into the fava bean patch and the rest is up to them.  Just hit them with a sprinkler once a day.

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OfflineMycomush
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #14423172 - 05/09/11 05:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MonkeyKnifeFight said:
I just let mine find their own way out.  They never seem to have problems.  Once the bags have fruited for awhile they sometimes start fruiting in the bag but at that point i just open the whole bag up.

I do everything outside.  I mix my bags then plop them into the fava bean patch and the rest is up to them.  Just hit them with a sprinkler once a day.




Cheers for the info. Sounds very low maintenance. I like it!

I'm thinking of trying an experiment in a couple of weeks using king oysters in either hessian bags or cardboard boxes outside using a mix of coffee and cardboard substrate.

A few more questions if you don't mind:

How large are your bags normally? Do you get multiple flushes? What mushrooms have you found grow well using your method and what sort of weather conditions are they doing well in?

Sorry for all the questions but sounds like you've had some good experience doing this successfully and I'm very interested in learning more.

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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Mycomush]
    #14424214 - 05/09/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I kind of doubt kings will do very well on coffee + cardboard.  Try if you want but I've never seen king's do much of anything on coffee heavy substrates.  Straw or sawdust seem to be the bees knees for kings.

On my coffee/straw burlap bags I've done oysters.  Mostly blue oysters over the winter but I will probably switch to ostreatus or pulmunarius.  I dunno I've got yellow and pinks too so maybe try those since people will get a kick out of the colors.  I don't think i'll venture outside of oysters for my coffee bags since I doubt other species could persevere with this setup.  As you say it's super low maintenance so they don't get much TLC. 

I started my bags at the end of winter/fall while it was still raining quite a bit which made it easy to keep things moist.  Now it's going to get really hot and dry around here so I want to try to build some outdoor shelves with micro sprinklers or something on a timer to keep things damp.  The biggest problem with the burlap bags is they have a lot of surface area so dry out pretty fast. 

I definitely get multiple flushes.  I haven't kept awesome records so far but once the bags start producing they just kind of continue making mushrooms week after week.  After while the whole thing pretty much starts to fall apart.  I've probably got over a dozen bags and most of them have yet to start fruiting.  But I am seeing at least 1-5 lbs a week right now from the few bags that are fruiting.

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OfflineNSF
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #14425916 - 05/09/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

MKF it sounds as though your shelving would need to be wire racks (which was likely anyway) and up off the ground (bottom shelf) to let the disintegrated bags and new soil to fall free to the ground.  You might have to get a rake under it to spread it, so keep that in mind.

Look at me, all inspired and full of ideas due to your great grow.


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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: NSF]
    #14427314 - 05/09/11 10:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hah glad to hear it I've been really happy with the results so far especially since I get to spend so little time taking care of the bags and the other folks who are at the farm more regularly are sometimes a bit neglectful. 

Wire racks sound nice but I think for cost/simplicity we may try some really simple wood shelves.  We're basically thinking a simple frame with the actual shelves formed with a bunch of slats.  We'll space the slats enough to provide some air flow under the bags.  Not sure if these will work but only one way to find out.

Also just regarding air flow if anyone tries to grow in bags similar to mine never stack the bags up like a wall.  That was my original idea because it seems like such an easy way to efficiently use space.  Problem is you get a ton of heat building up where the bags touch.  You need to keep something between the bags to provide air flow.  I saw a picture in Mycelium Running that looked like stacked burlap mushroom bags but i'm not sure how that worked.

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OfflineMycomush
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #14428334 - 05/10/11 05:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MonkeyKnifeFight said:
I kind of doubt kings will do very well on coffee + cardboard.  Try if you want but I've never seen king's do much of anything on coffee heavy substrates.  Straw or sawdust seem to be the bees knees for kings.

On my coffee/straw burlap bags I've done oysters.  Mostly blue oysters over the winter but I will probably switch to ostreatus or pulmunarius.  I dunno I've got yellow and pinks too so maybe try those since people will get a kick out of the colors.  I don't think i'll venture outside of oysters for my coffee bags since I doubt other species could persevere with this setup.  As you say it's super low maintenance so they don't get much TLC. 

I started my bags at the end of winter/fall while it was still raining quite a bit which made it easy to keep things moist.  Now it's going to get really hot and dry around here so I want to try to build some outdoor shelves with micro sprinklers or something on a timer to keep things damp.  The biggest problem with the burlap bags is they have a lot of surface area so dry out pretty fast. 

I definitely get multiple flushes.  I haven't kept awesome records so far but once the bags start producing they just kind of continue making mushrooms week after week.  After while the whole thing pretty much starts to fall apart.  I've probably got over a dozen bags and most of them have yet to start fruiting.  But I am seeing at least 1-5 lbs a week right now from the few bags that are fruiting.





Thanks for the heads up on king oysters. I might get my hands on some P. Columbinus at the same time I get king oysters or instead of, for the purpose of a coffee+cardboard experiment. It's starting to get colder here so they should like the temps.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. Much appreciated.

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OfflineBlueLightRain
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
    #14442943 - 05/12/11 11:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Monkeyknifefight - I've been thinking a lot about your burlap bag grows and I've come up with some new outdoor methods...check out my journal in my signature and get ready for some heavy reading. :smile:


--------------------
mushroomjoe.com - that's me!

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InvisibleDRCola
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14445792 - 05/13/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hi Oysterhead,

I was trying to read though the wealth of information on this post, but at the beginning of your thread you were finding hay but not straw...

Later I read other things like "along the Gulf Coast" etc. I searched craigslist near Hattiesburg, MS and found some wheat straw for sale.

It turns out, wheat is grown in South Mississippi of all places! I was surprised, but there you have it...wheat straw is available in the South at $4.00 a bale. I'll be picking some up tomorrow for my oyster grow!


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InvisibleOysterhead

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: DRCola]
    #14451962 - 05/14/11 03:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DRCola said:
Hi Oysterhead,

I was trying to read though the wealth of information on this post, but at the beginning of your thread you were finding hay but not straw...

Later I read other things like "along the Gulf Coast" etc. I searched craigslist near Hattiesburg, MS and found some wheat straw for sale.

It turns out, wheat is grown in South Mississippi of all places! I was surprised, but there you have it...wheat straw is available in the South at $4.00 a bale. I'll be picking some up tomorrow for my oyster grow!




I wish that was the case here, unfortunately it is not. The closest place I have found in Texas that has straw is about 350 miles or so from here - each way. Plus they are selling large, round bales, not small, rectangular bales.

Thanks for the info though.


--------------------
Never kick a fresh terd on a hot day.

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InvisibleDRCola
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14461262 - 05/16/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I wish you luck in finding straw!

350 miles is definitely too far to drive for straw. It would be like driving to Beaumont, Texas from here--a good 8 hours! I used to live in Texas and would drive between there and MS often.

That said, the straw I bought Saturday should work well. Those bales came apart easily and seemed to already be about the correct length for the spawn. The bales were light too--about 35 pounds each.

The wheat harvest season (at least in the South) is early June. I would keep checking around in the classifieds or craigslist. You might find some around that time, or about month from now.


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Offlinetrout
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: DRCola]
    #14462955 - 05/16/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Oysterhead, have you tried garden centers for straw.  They offen have it for mulch, its worth a shot.  Also keep an eye out for road construction, they offen use shredded straw to prevent erosion.  You might just stop and ask if they could spare some or possibly point you to where they get it. Do you have a Lowe's a reasonable distance away.  I bet they could order it for you, if you find the right person to help you.


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I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.

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OfflineNSF
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: trout]
    #14476452 - 05/19/11 12:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm sorry if i've asked this before and forgotten the answer.

Why is it that hay isn't acceptable as a substrate?  Because it's nutrient rich?  And it contains seeds with husks so it's a contam breeding ground?

So if we're not growing shiitake, if we STERILISED it would it then be ok?  Or am i missing another reason

(yes i'm aware sterilising bulk substrates is inefficient and time consuming etc etc)


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OfflineBlueLightRain
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: NSF]
    #14476513 - 05/19/11 01:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NSF said:
So if we're not growing shiitake, if we STERILISED it would it then be ok?




I have no experience with hay but my educated guess tells me yes, you can do it if you sterilize it.


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mushroomjoe.com - that's me!

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InvisibleDRCola
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: NSF]
    #14483933 - 05/20/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have read of pasteurizing straw which helps because it doesn't destroy some helpful bacteria. This as opposed to STERILIZED straw which would kill everything.

As far as seeds and husks, I have found very little in wheat straw (presumably because it is harvested). However, the little I did find was dried out completely and the wheat germ was thoroughly decomposed. I doubt it would germinate. Since lime is added, I believe the method works to keep the mushrooms happy and growing.

There is a method discussed and illustrated on RogerRabbit's website: mushroomvideos.com. He's one of the experts, so I'm gonna pasteurize the straw for my oysters.


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InvisibleDRCola
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: DRCola]
    #14483951 - 05/20/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Whoops!  NSF was talking about HAY.  My bad.

I'd like to know what happens if you STERILIZED hay and got mushrooms to fruit.  There is plenty of free hay to be had around here!


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OfflineBlueLightRain
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: DRCola]
    #14520247 - 05/27/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Bebop Shebang Oh Booya!

Several weeks back I buried a wet cardboard box full of coffee grounds and spawn. This last week it rained. Now check out this harvest! Heehee



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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: Oysterhead]
    #14520345 - 05/27/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Oysterhead said:
I wish that was the case here, unfortunately it is not. The closest place I have found in Texas that has straw is about 350 miles or so from here - each way. Plus they are selling large, round bales, not small, rectangular bales.

Thanks for the info though.




If you can't find straw in the middle of wheat country, you're not looking.  Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas are the buckle of the US wheat belt.  When I lived down there, it was no problem at all getting straw.  If I didn't get it direct from the farmer, every feed store has it stacked to the roof.

Even up here in Washington State, I can easily get organic wheat straw in 60 pound bales, and there's a hell of a lot fewer wheat farms here than where you are.  I've thought about shredding and selling half bales of straw in feed sacks, which can be shipped UPS or USPS anywhere, but don't really have time to shred and bag it up.  I've got straw bales stacked 20 feet high in my barn.
RR


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OfflineeLeSDenes
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Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: DRCola]
    #14529844 - 05/29/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hay was working fine to me the mycelium ran it over fast and was very rhizomorphic. BUT if you sterilize the hay you are going to kill the good bacterias that you don't really want. If you do sterilize you can't operate with it open air and have to treat it as the rye grain in the jars. It is recommended to use hydrated lime in the pasture bath 1 cup/80l is okay. it brings up the ph around 10 and is going to inactivate the contams for about 2 weeks but not going to hurt the mycelium.

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InvisibleOysterhead


Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 42
Re: Substrate Woes - No Straw [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14542902 - 05/31/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Oysterhead said:
I wish that was the case here, unfortunately it is not. The closest place I have found in Texas that has straw is about 350 miles or so from here - each way. Plus they are selling large, round bales, not small, rectangular bales.

Thanks for the info though.




If you can't find straw in the middle of wheat country, you're not looking.  Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas are the buckle of the US wheat belt.  When I lived down there, it was no problem at all getting straw.  If I didn't get it direct from the farmer, every feed store has it stacked to the roof.

Even up here in Washington State, I can easily get organic wheat straw in 60 pound bales, and there's a hell of a lot fewer wheat farms here than where you are.  I've thought about shredding and selling half bales of straw in feed sacks, which can be shipped UPS or USPS anywhere, but don't really have time to shred and bag it up.  I've got straw bales stacked 20 feet high in my barn.
RR




Like I have said numerous times, it can be found, but NOWHERE along the Texas Gulf Coast. All that is grown around here that even comes close is coastal hay. We have many cotton farmers around and I have attempted to get cottonseed hull, but the entire harvest's worth of hulls is presold to oil companies for mixing with drilling mud at a much higher price and volume than I can deal with - even had a feed store say they haven't been able to get it for three years for that very reason. I have visited or called every feed store within 100 miles of here - nothing but hay and will not special order straw unless I am willing to buy and store an entire truck load, something I cannot do. I did find oat hay recently, but it would be about 800 miles round trip to get it. A search of the boards will show that I am not the only one on the Texas Gulf Coast to have this problem.


--------------------
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