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Icelander
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The many people inside your brain?
#14541667 - 05/31/11 04:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Inspired by OCs post and this great interview I heard on NPR Open Air today. http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/
I think you will really enjoy listening to the interview.
OK do you think there is an I or a legion of personalities vying for dominance in the brain?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/31/11 04:57 PM)
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Diploid
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14541678 - 05/31/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fresh Air*
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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xFrockx


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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14541679 - 05/31/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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O for a Muse of fire, that would ascend The brightest heaven of invention, A kingdom for a stage, princes to act And monarchs to behold the swelling scene! Then should the warlike Harry, like himself, Assume the port of Mars; and at his heels, Leash'd in like hounds, should famine, sword and fire Crouch for employment. But pardon, and gentles all, The flat unraised spirits that have dared On this unworthy scaffold to bring forth So great an object: can this cockpit hold The vasty fields of France? or may we cram Within this wooden O the very casques That did affright the air at Agincourt? O, pardon! since a crooked figure may Attest in little place a million; And let us, ciphers to this great accompt, On your imaginary forces work. Suppose within the girdle of these walls Are now confined two mighty monarchies, Whose high upreared and abutting fronts The perilous narrow ocean parts asunder: Piece out our imperfections with your thoughts; Into a thousand parts divide on man, And make imaginary puissance; Think when we talk of horses, that you see them Printing their proud hoofs i' the receiving earth; For 'tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings, Carry them here and there; jumping o'er times, Turning the accomplishment of many years Into an hour-glass: for the which supply, Admit me Chorus to this history; Who prologue-like your humble patience pray, Gently to hear, kindly to judge, our play.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14541681 - 05/31/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Of course there are. Does anyone believe murderous OJ was the same sub-persona as jovial, amiable OJ?
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xFrockx


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Does that mean both murderous and jovial OJ also had their own infinite number of sub-personalities?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Diploid]
#14541694 - 05/31/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Fresh Air*
I like radio shows that sound like a feminine hygiene spray.
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Diploid]
#14541721 - 05/31/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Fresh Air*
Right.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14541789 - 05/31/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It gets downright Saszesque about the time he starts talking about "customized rehabilitation."
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Quote:
It gets downright Sasquatchesque about the time he starts talking about "customized rehabilitation."
--------------------
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Sophistic Radiance
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-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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deranger

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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: deranger]
#14542112 - 05/31/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree that a personality or persons mind is a general combination of different states of mind a person is in according to their feelings, thoughts and environment. The reason people "are the way they are" is because they are normally in predictable states of mind according to their predictable feelings and thoughts in those environments.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Icelander
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It seems there is a competition between these selves that inhabit different areas of the brain. They all have strong ideas (just like in politics) of what is the right way for the self to proceed. That is why we often feel so divided on what we are doing or should do. It's kinda cool in a way. Like they say, you're never alone.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542198 - 05/31/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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"O, pardon! since a crooked figure may Attest in little place a million;"
Translation:
"Excuse me, but representations of reality are no replacement for the infinite."
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: xFrockx]
#14542224 - 05/31/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Try and get from Michigan to California without it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542228 - 05/31/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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The sun sets in the west.
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: xFrockx]
#14542232 - 05/31/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Isn't the "west" a representation of reality?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542237 - 05/31/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well duh. It doesn't really "represent" anything though. There is no west, just the direction we call west. Like right and left.
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: xFrockx]
#14542241 - 05/31/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Too big? Not in the infinite.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx


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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542257 - 05/31/11 07:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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My edits are infinite.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542318 - 05/31/11 07:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: It seems there is a competition between these selves that inhabit different areas of the brain. They all have strong ideas (just like in politics) of what is the right way for the self to proceed. That is why we often feel so divided on what we are doing or should do. It's kinda cool in a way. Like they say, you're never alone. 
I agree if we we decide "selves" to be synonymous with "state(s) of mind"
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Sophistic Radiance
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"States of mind" is a bit of an oversimplification. The interview describes a number of different hubs of cognitive activity operating simultaneously. Varying levels of stimulation determine who "wins" at influencing the behavior of the conglomerate entity.
In another example he says that the subjective experience of slowed time during a freefall owes to the high degree of stimulation in many different brain centers at once.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (05/31/11 07:55 PM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:
Icelander said: It seems there is a competition between these selves that inhabit different areas of the brain. They all have strong ideas (just like in politics) of what is the right way for the self to proceed. That is why we often feel so divided on what we are doing or should do. It's kinda cool in a way. Like they say, you're never alone. 
I agree if we we decide "selves" to be synonymous with "state(s) of mind"
Quote:
Tchan909 said: "States of mind" is a bit of an oversimplification. The interview describes a number of different hubs of cognitive activity operating simultaneously. Varying levels of stimulation determine who "wins" at influencing the behavior of the conglomerate entity.
In another example he says that the subjective experience of slowed time during a freefall owes to the high degree of stimulation in many different brain centers at once.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Toe_Jam
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542487 - 05/31/11 08:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I often find myself thinking "we" in my mind when I am doing something alone. And I often feel as if two or more parts of my mind are "arguing" about the best way to deal with any problem. But then maybe I'm crazy as fuck.
-------------------- God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent March 1984   A pleasing land of drowsy head it was, Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye, And of gay castles in the clouds that pass, For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14542491 - 05/31/11 08:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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frazy as cuck.
Or maybe you're just a Queen.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542646 - 05/31/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I checked and I have room for one more person in my brain. Must be neat, pay rent on time and be a non-smoker.
--------------------
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Icelander
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Here I am.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Toe_Jam
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14542995 - 05/31/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Or maybe you're just a Queen.
Heh, not really sure about the connection there. Maybe you are a little crazy too.
-------------------- God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent March 1984   A pleasing land of drowsy head it was, Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye, And of gay castles in the clouds that pass, For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14544512 - 06/01/11 06:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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The Queen was notorious for saying "we" when speaking about herself.
But yes it's true, I'm bat shit crazy, thanks for noticing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14544753 - 06/01/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Three people, one asks how to self destruct the other says there is no way to answer the question and the third wants to live.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Grapefruit]
#14544801 - 06/01/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have those plus their cousins, aunts, uncles and friends.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14544820 - 06/01/11 08:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Simms
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: xFrockx]
#14545190 - 06/01/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Does that mean both murderous and jovial OJ also had their own infinite number of sub-personalities?
Personalities live inside brain and have no brain. Brain is just an enviornment for personalities to gather. Or to put it in another words: brain causes personalities. Therefore personalities can not have personalities.
This what you see as human, is only an image of personalities... OH, WAIT!
Here is how it is instead:
Those things, called sub-personalities, lets call them wills of different bodily functions (body has many many many parts, resulting wills one is not even aware of). And our image of a person, what we call individuals personality, is a description of the current war state between wills. If there would be only one will, there is no personality, just some robotic function. But then again, wills can be categorized, and maybe some wills have formed an allay, which could be named sub-personalities of some sorts. Change the persons wills, or lose one will, and you could immedeately change the personality of a person. The art of manipulation.
--------------------
Edited by Simms (06/01/11 10:57 AM)
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Kickle
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14547155 - 06/01/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Inspired by OCs post and this great interview I heard on NPR Open Air today. http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/
I think you will really enjoy listening to the interview.
OK do you think there is an I or a legion of personalities vying for dominance in the brain?
Just starting the interview out. But is this a throwback to Freud? I've been thinking a lot about the id - ego - superego relationship. It has me buzzing at the moment.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Kickle]
#14547242 - 06/01/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Never made that connection.
Make the case?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Kickle]
#14547280 - 06/01/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's honestly nothing astonishingly new in this interview, but it's a nice summary of the current state of neuroscience. The idea of customized rehabilitation was the part that struck me hardest.
Customized rehabilitation is far more economically sound than the heavy-handed system of rehabilitation we have now. Some offenders need to be put in prison to get their priorities together, but many other offenders (currently in prison) would be better treated with psychiatric treatment instead, and tackling this issue would undoubtedly save massive amounts of taxpayer money. Psychiatric treatment is cheaper than indefinite boarding.
Again, Saszesque... but what other methods would be preferable?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14547300 - 06/01/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well as far as multiple pulls manifesting into consciousness it seems to me that Freud had a plausible working model that could fit into neuropsych just fine. The Id being that which is primarily below consciousness and contains more primal urges/needs, akin to older brain structures. The Superego also primarily below consciousness and containing the more recent urges/needs of the neo-cortex such as social etiquette, morals, equal rights, etc. And then the Ego as the point of consciousness in which relevant material from each is brought to debate and decide upon. The ego being a way to bridge the gap between older brain structures and newer brain structures as both contain valuable information.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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SlashOZ
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Kickle]
#14550512 - 06/02/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Well as far as multiple pulls manifesting into consciousness it seems to me that Freud had a plausible working model that could fit into neuropsych just fine. The Id being that which is primarily below consciousness and contains more primal urges/needs, akin to older brain structures. The Superego also primarily below consciousness and containing the more recent urges/needs of the neo-cortex such as social etiquette, morals, equal rights, etc. And then the Ego as the point of consciousness in which relevant material from each is brought to debate and decide upon. The ego being a way to bridge the gap between older brain structures and newer brain structures as both contain valuable information.

This could very well be the case. Psychology is very interesting in this way. We all have a brain with a will and personality(ies) but we still can't figure this thing out!
Lets just say that there are multiple personalities within our minds. How then does this phenomenon interact with ideas from social psychology like group think?
If we are debating and weighing decisions between our personalities in our mind why are we so willing as a species to go along with the group?
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: SlashOZ]
#14550574 - 06/02/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Going with the group offers more benefits than trying to go it solo.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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SlashOZ
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Kickle]
#14550603 - 06/02/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Going with the group offers more benefits than trying to go it solo.
Some of the time yes but not all of the time. For example, if you are hanging out with people and they start drinking the "kool-aid" it might be a much better decision to abstain.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Kickle
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: SlashOZ]
#14550659 - 06/02/11 12:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah -- but once you're convinced that the group has your best interests at heart, especially surrounding the afterlife, exile is a hard option to be convinced of as a better alternative. Even if a part of you is suggesting exile, the other part is assured of it's righteousness.
It seems to me that we humans often convince ourselves that the superego knows what it's talking about because it sells us some form of afterlife or superhuman glories. We're like moths to a flame when that happens.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Icelander]
#14550812 - 06/02/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Inspired by OCs post and this great interview I heard on NPR Open Air today. http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/
I think you will really enjoy listening to the interview.
OK do you think there is an I or a legion of personalities vying for dominance in the brain?
I think the dominance that any personality has, depends on the environment you are in.
Certain environments trigger personalities that may be dormant in other environments but active under a relevant circumstance.
To be honest though, I believe the commentary in my head is simply the outcome of subconscious perceptions that are involved in processing experience which we do not normally are conscious of.
That why we always seemed surprised when this commentary arises because its subconscious becoming conscious is not generally a common outcome.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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SlashOZ
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Kickle] 1
#14550893 - 06/02/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Yeah -- but once you're convinced that the group has your best interests at heart, especially surrounding the afterlife, exile is a hard option to be convinced of as a better alternative. Even if a part of you is suggesting exile, the other part is assured of it's righteousness.
It seems to me that we humans often convince ourselves that the superego knows what it's talking about because it sells us some form of afterlife or superhuman glories. We're like moths to a flame when that happens.
Why do you think we are so drawn to the idea of an afterlife? To me any sort of meaning to life is found exactly because we don't live forever and yet the idea of an afterlife is appealing to so many folks. The obvious answer I guess would be death anxiety.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Kickle
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: SlashOZ]
#14550904 - 06/02/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Right. Death anxiety. I mean we're listening to these voices in order to make the best choice in regards to survival and quality of life. If I have information telling me that I will live forever, that's as appealing as it gets for the survival criteria. Throw in ways to increase quality of life and you've sealed the deal. Every religion I know of contains both of these elements -- life after death and ways to increase the standard of living.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: Kickle]
#14550932 - 06/02/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Right. Death anxiety. I mean we're listening to these voices in order to make the best choice in regards to survival and quality of life. If I have information telling me that I will live forever, that's as appealing as it gets for the survival criteria. Throw in ways to increase quality of life and you've sealed the deal. Every religion I know of contains both of these elements -- life after death and ways to increase the standard of living.
This is one of the reasons I like Nietzsche's critique of religion. We are being duped into thinking we are making the correct choice from a survival perspective but in making that choice we in essence give up our ability to experience life to its fullest. We would rather will nothing than not will at all.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 16 minutes, 49 seconds
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Re: The many people inside your brain? [Re: SlashOZ]
#14551005 - 06/02/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I personally think placing so much emphasis and importance on the voice of the superego is a sure bet for unnecessary stress in one's life. The moral high road is not always a viable option and in fact to take it at every turn does not seem a possibility at all. So one will assuredly come into conflict with that voice. Placing a lot of importance will only add to the degree of conflict.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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