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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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crappy handymen
    #14541635 - 05/31/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

don't u just love them?  we had some work done, told them we needed it done to get the stuff up to code, he specifically talked to the inspector guy.  We sign the contract, he starts the work, then i think he realizes there was more than he realized(or maybe planned it all along) then he's like well the contract didn't specifically say we had to do "this" and the end result is obviously it being not up to code and them wanting more money:cruelworld:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14541648 - 05/31/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

gotta learn to do that type of shit yourself.
since my dad has worked in construction his whole life, I know how to fix most problems around the house that dont require specialty work..

although I will tell you that often times once you start doing work, you uncover unseen problems and this type of shit just happens...

don't blame the worker, sometimes theres nothin you can do :shrug:


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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Invisiblebadchad
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Posts: 13,372
Re: crappy handymen [Re: Anthony917]
    #14541702 - 05/31/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Screw that.

You have a written, binding estimate describing the work, don't you?  It's a contractual obligation.  If he underestimated the job, that's HIS problem. 

Talk with him gently, then you can report him to the BBB.  If it's not a large sum, and worth the effort you can try small claims court.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: badchad]
    #14541707 - 05/31/11 05:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Screw that.

You have a written, binding estimate describing the work, don't you?  It's a contractual obligation.  If he underestimated the job, that's HIS problem. 

Talk with him gently, then you can report him to the BBB.  If it's not a large sum, and worth the effort you can try small claims court.




so when you start the job, then knock down a section of wall and realize there's piping/wiring behind it...wtf do you expect them to do?

there are certain instances where extra work is unavoidable. I've seen it happen a billion times, it's not uncommon, and it's not always the workers fault... :facepalm:


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: Anthony917]
    #14541712 - 05/31/11 05:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ummm that needs to be explained and written out beforehand. 

This is the purpose of the contract.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineDrumfiend
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: badchad]
    #14541725 - 05/31/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You aren't paying attention, badchad.

It shouldn't have to be written out in the contract because it applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time.


--------------------
"Your accountants are waiting in the West wing, sir."
  "Tell them I'm sick."
"Shan't have to lie. That refugee charity called..."
  "Write them a check."
"And the Committee for the Prevention of Obsessive Behavior in Middle-Aged Men?"
  "Write them a check."
"Very good, sir. Your sense of humor is as keen as ever, sir."


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: badchad]
    #14541732 - 05/31/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Screw that.

You have a written, binding estimate describing the work, don't you?  It's a contractual obligation.  If he underestimated the job, that's HIS problem.




an estimate isnt a binding contract and as had been mentioned, there's almost
something unseen, for instance the spongy floor in the bathroom could be as
easy as replacing the subfloor but often times includes replacing joists and
even the bottom plate in some instances with a tub and outside wall

if you want to bind someone to what's on the estimate then you could end
up with brand new tile over top of a rotting subfloor, wont that be a
fuckload of wasted money when you have to call out a new contractor to
tear up the tile, subfloor, joists and what ever else is wrong and have it
all replaced in 4 months after you'd already paid $7000 for the tile to be
installed and didnt want to listen to the original contractor but decided
to hold him to that estimate, new estimate $12000 bringing your total to
$19000 for an $8000 job


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: crappy handymen [Re: Anthony917]
    #14541735 - 05/31/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Anthony917 said:
Quote:

badchad said:
Screw that.

You have a written, binding estimate describing the work, don't you?  It's a contractual obligation.  If he underestimated the job, that's HIS problem. 

Talk with him gently, then you can report him to the BBB.  If it's not a large sum, and worth the effort you can try small claims court.




so when you start the job, then knock down a section of wall and realize there's piping/wiring behind it...wtf do you expect them to do?





Their responsibility to plan for these kinds of things when making the contract.
He could've better inspected the job before starting it.

Also, bottom line is that OP wanted to bring his building up to code-
Contract to do work to get stuff up to code-
Building's not up to code.

I always see commercials for www.angieslist.com ...
Might help in the future?


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14541762 - 05/31/11 05:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

Anthony917 said:
Quote:

badchad said:
Screw that.

You have a written, binding estimate describing the work, don't you?  It's a contractual obligation.  If he underestimated the job, that's HIS problem. 

Talk with him gently, then you can report him to the BBB.  If it's not a large sum, and worth the effort you can try small claims court.




so when you start the job, then knock down a section of wall and realize there's piping/wiring behind it...wtf do you expect them to do?





Their responsibility to plan for these kinds of things when making the contract.
He could've better inspected the job before starting it.




how do you inspect inside the wall to see if there's termites without
tearing into it, something a homeowner doesnt want happening until the day
you start work. if I estimate a job with all those unforeseen things I
wont get the job, should I refund the extra cash when the job goes smooth
and I dont have to do all the extra labor?

I personally give them 2 estimates, one that gives them the unforeseen
shit that typically comes up and the second with the easy route, the final
price always falls between the two and I document everything while I'm
working so the home owner knows they arent getting screwed


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14541771 - 05/31/11 05:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I personally give them 2 estimates, one that gives them the unforeseen
shit that typically comes up and the second with the easy route, the final
price always falls between the two and I document everything while I'm
working so the home owner knows they arent getting screwed




Well, this would be a better solution IMO.

Also, we are not given much context in the case of the OP concerning exactly what difficulties were encountered. So it's tough to say if the guy could've better quoted the job.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14541780 - 05/31/11 05:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the info Pris.  Typically, if there is an unforseen expense, I'm told up front.

I guess I never realized that an estimate is essentially worthless.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: badchad]
    #14541905 - 05/31/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

your right i was a bit vague, a room of our house, while looking at if from outside "sticks out", in otherwords say u have a square house stick a another square somewhere.  Anyways that leaves 3 sides to this box/room that u see from the outside.  1 side has a door just completely forget about that one.  That leaves 2 sides.  Now obviously there's siding on the outside, but to make it more complicated 1 side goes down further than the other with siding. 

So with the anatomy out of the way, to apparently bring this up to code and prevent leaks, the dirt outside needs to be a certain distance below the siding which also involves grading our entire yard sloping it away from the house.  So we told this guy to bring it up to code, he talked to the inspector guy, but he writes up the contract without specifically stating how far down he would dig, but we told him bring it up to code thats what we thought the contract was for! and he knew prior how far he would have to go from the inspecter.  This is also one of those fancy contracts and as such it states any "additions" we would have to pay for or something along those lines, but its bullshit...

now there's a tiny bit more to this puzzle but its trivial in my eyes but maybe not to others.  The reason the siding doesn't go down to the same point on each side is because on one side the guy stopped using siding and started using flashing or something and the flashing was covered up with dirt.  However the reason is doesn't matter is because the "siding" on the other side is only a few inches above the "bottom" of the flashing.  Ontop of that the side with the flashing is pointed to the "side" so its not directed towards the majority of the lawn.  So what he's saying is he didn't know he would have to go below this flashing, but it doesn't matter because the siding on the other side goes almost exactly the same distance down.

But hes saying he didn't specifically say how far down he would go, so techically he could just "level" our yard and leave which would obviously do nothing for the code so why did we hire him?...im guessing this is why he brought out a fuking farm tractor and now he's asking us to pay for "real" equipment

so the way this worked was they took a farm tractor roughed up our lawn, then dug a hole beside the house, then pulled there bullshit.:tinfoil:

edit: i should also point out the inspector doesn't know about this "flashing" stuff but again im not sure it really matters.  The dirt prior to work was at the bottom of the siding or barely covering the bottom panal on both sides roughly


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (05/31/11 06:04 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14541919 - 05/31/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I personally give them 2 estimates, one that gives them the unforeseen
shit that typically comes up and the second with the easy route, the final
price always falls between the two and I document everything while I'm
working so the home owner knows they arent getting screwed




Well, this would be a better solution IMO.

Also, we are not given much context in the case of the OP concerning exactly what difficulties were encountered. So it's tough to say if the guy could've better quoted the job.





ecxept it would lead to more people getting ripped off, my $2000 low bid
followed by a $12000 high bid, what do you think most contractors are
going to claim, I already know many are shady fucks, often times you put
down a deposit and they dont even show up


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: badchad]
    #14541958 - 05/31/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Thanks for the info Pris.  Typically, if there is an unforseen expense, I'm told up front.

I guess I never realized that an estimate is essentially worthless.




you cant be told of the unknown until it's known

Makaveli, sounds like it simply needs a piece of siding over the flashing,
the flashing should protrude a few inches below the siding but should be
above the grade, the guy cant go too deep around the foundation with the
digging because it'll compromise it. his farm tractor with a loader and
either a box blade or a scraper should be more than sufficient and as he's
bid the job to grade the yard the expense for equipment should be included in
his price and the solution is simple, if he hasnt been paid yet then withhold
payment until it's up to code, let him file a lawsuit if he wishes


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14542097 - 05/31/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yah im not sure what he had on his tractor i didn't get a look at it but it looks like all he did was turn the top soil, there's no piles of dirt anywhere so its like he didn't push any dirt.  I really think he had this planned all along, he asked for half upfront, did "just" enough to make it look like he showed up, and we had to pull tooth and nail to do this other project that was included and thats only half completed, he wanted to wait on the rest until he finished the lawn.

I believe there may even be something in his contract regarding "disputes" and us having to pay him if we can't come to an agreement:nonono:  and at first it says he pays for the equipment but later on it says something about if there's any changes i believe we have to pay

i dunno im still a bit worried about this contract:tinfoil:  these contractors have become professional lawyer hitmen, im half convinced they are undercover agents for some lawyers.  The thing is we just got out of court with a pos just like this ended up spending like 6k on the lawyer just to convince us to pay the crappy contractor 3k


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineBrugman
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14542249 - 05/31/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Off topic, but Pris, can I mail you a keyboard with a "." key? Yours seems to be broken.

:Trollface:


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: crappy handymen [Re: Brugman]
    #14542297 - 05/31/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Brugman said:
Off topic, but Pris, can I mail you a keyboard with a "." key? Yours seems to be broken.

:Trollface:




take off the enter key while you're at it.
or have it locked while typing posts into the text box.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14542357 - 05/31/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Around here the code is for a minimum of 8 inches from the grade to any wood member whether covered with flashing or siding or a condom.  That means 8 inches of masonry before there is any structural member including pressure treated wood or steel.  Further the grade must be pitched away from the structure for a certain distance.  There are also issues of how the grading impacts drainage to the neighbors' property.  The flashing over wood would be irrelevant.  Your grade would need to be 8 inches below the top of the masonry.  Period. 


Contractors are lawyers' hit men?  That is so fucking absurd.  Real contractors abhor lawyers.  By the way, whhy the fuck would anybody pay a 50% down payment on what is essentially a labor only job?  What kind of schmuck puts 50% down on any contract?

I'm sorry this is not turning out well for you but dayum.


--------------------


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14542546 - 05/31/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

thanks for the info in the first paragraph, and i might as well thank pris to since i think i forgot

but yah just think how much money a pos contractor and a pos lawyer could make working together with ironclad contracts doesn't seem that absurd to me

as for who would pay upfront well i mean it was "seemingly" such a simple job its hard to think it could have gone so wrong or to be screwed twice in a row. but to answer your question a women, a very old women :frown: "schmuck"->:mad2:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: crappy handymen [Re: Brugman]
    #14542565 - 05/31/11 08:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Brugman said:
Off topic, but Pris, can I mail you a keyboard with a "." key? Yours seems to be broken.

:Trollface:






mine works just fine... thanks anyway


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