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Invisible1983
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 130
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540891 - 05/31/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
That assumption is not borne out by any factual basis.




Do you read your own posts?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 4896744]
    #14540913 - 05/31/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

And this collection of physical reactions is what I am. I don't see how these things mean "I" is an illusion. The very fact that there is a concept of "I" shows that there is some material basis behind it. On the other hand, i guess my perception of what i am is quite different from most others'.




You hit the nail on the head: a collection of reactions. The illusion part is that there is some center controlling the body. There are a zillion 'centers' each controlling a specific aspect. There is no starship captain in charge or even a well-manned bridge.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 1983]
    #14540915 - 05/31/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1983 said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
That assumption is not borne out by any factual basis.




Do you read your own posts?




Why would I want to get a headache?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540922 - 05/31/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Are you saying the human body functions based upon the principles of decentralized communism? :eek:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 26 days, 13 hours
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540931 - 05/31/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The idea that there are parts is of the same character as the idea that there are wholes.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540945 - 05/31/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
When a fine woman walks by and you say, "I think she is hot!" Who is this 'I'? In this case it certainly seems to be nothing more than your biological and cultural programming.

When you say, "I am hungry, cold, tired, horny, etc.," are these not just biological responses that you have in common with every other fully functional human machine?

If a person says "I hate Kikes, Chinks, 'Spics, Honkies, Niggers, etc.", is that not most likely cultural programming being parrotted? If so, who is the 'YOU' that is making this judgment?




You must have had a great holiday weekend. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
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Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #14540951 - 05/31/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Who did? The part that posts stoopid stuff on this forum or the hedonist part or the...


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 26 days, 13 hours
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540955 - 05/31/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Just your fingers, they had a great time.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540967 - 05/31/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Who did? The part that posts stoopid stuff on this forum or the hedonist part or the...




"Who's who?" - xFrockx


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
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Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540968 - 05/31/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

And this collection of physical reactions is what I am. I don't see how these things mean "I" is an illusion. The very fact that there is a concept of "I" shows that there is some material basis behind it. On the other hand, i guess my perception of what i am is quite different from most others'.




You hit the nail on the head: a collection of reactions. The illusion part is that there is some center controlling the body. There are a zillion 'centers' each controlling a specific aspect. There is no starship captain in charge or even a well-manned bridge.




Exactly, and this is my basis for claiming their is no free will. At what point would it come into play?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 4896744]
    #14540974 - 05/31/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: No free willie! :penis:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 26 days, 13 hours
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 4896744]
    #14540991 - 05/31/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Exactly, and this is my basis for claiming their is no free will. At what point would it come into play? "

I get the question, but how does the claim follow from the question?

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 4896744]
    #14540995 - 05/31/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Exactly, and this is my basis for claiming their is no free will. At what point would it come into play?




At the point where the zillions of reaction become sufficiently complex and structured as to have a causal effect down the scale of size rather than up it like we generally assume is the case.

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: DieCommie]
    #14541029 - 05/31/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Exactly, and this is my basis for claiming their is no free will. At what point would it come into play?




At the point where the zillions of reaction become sufficiently complex and structured as to have a causal effect down the scale of size rather than up it like we generally assume is the case.




What evidence do you have for this being the case?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 4896744]
    #14541037 - 05/31/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

None.  Im just answering your question, if it were to exist that is where it would come into play.  (And in a sense, I am rejecting your substantiation while not rejecting your claim.)

(Note the dubious nature of our assumed upward causation as context for not dismissing downward causation outright.)

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: DieCommie]
    #14541091 - 05/31/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
None.  Im just answering your question, if it were to exist that is where it would come into play.  (And in a sense, I am rejecting your substantiation while not rejecting your claim.)

(Note the dubious nature of our assumed upward causation as context for not dismissing downward causation outright.)




I see, i guess i agree that is where it would come in if it existed, but i have yet to see any evidence for this being the case.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: 4896744]
    #14541106 - 05/31/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Let me know when you see strong evidence for any type of causation, downwards or upwards.  :wink:

(The best evidence against downward causation, I believe, it the mere fact that modeling phenomenon with upward causation has been so wildly successful and has such a great track record.)

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: DieCommie]
    #14541164 - 05/31/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Let me know when you see strong evidence for any type of causation, downwards or upwards.  :wink:

(The best evidence against downward causation, I believe, it the mere fact that modeling phenomenon with upward causation has been so wildly successful and has such a great track record.)




Isn't upward causation the only type of causation that has been observed? If so, why should we assume that this would change at one point? I find it dubious that the only suggested reversal in the direction of causation would take place at our level. I feel that we are allowing our egos to become too involved.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Offlinefalcon
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Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,020
Last seen: 3 hours, 10 minutes
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14541187 - 05/31/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
No, but I have met many unstable peeps on these boards.




you've refuted the claim of your initial post :sorry:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'You', The Greatest illusion [Re: falcon]
    #14541210 - 05/31/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

'I' am the only one capable of such a feat; sort of like God moving an immovable object.


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