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Offlineandroid313
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The Evolutionary Force
    #14540124 - 05/31/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Is anybody else fascinated by it?

It is afterall the life force; the force that continues to push forward the development of life. It is the force responsible for encoding the DNA sequence (instructions how to build [insert creature]), in every little living thing, all with a common organic chemistry, too. Its purpose, from what we can tell, is nothing more than to set up an abundant and diverse system in which life can strive and continue to develop.

But it's a seemingly imperfect force, in that its only means of development is through trial and error in an effort to best adopt itself to the dynamic chemical world. And after billions of years of progress, we humans, are the SINGLE most complex beings this force has created. This ABSOLUTELY makes us special. And given that we were created by this force, it is, in a very literal sense, our God.

Now humor the thought: what if this force were to become aware of itself? How would that appear?

Every living thing, every single one of us, is its attempt at a more efficient, more capable life form. Our collective intellect through physical and psychological experience are energies likely of what this force consists. Every single one of us, every individual, is therefore a vital component in this force and exist indefinitely along with it.

That's to say humanity is nothing more than one of many likely manifestations of the life force into the chemical world, perhaps in an effort to better understand itself and its surroundings, or perhaps just because it can. Human death would then be nothing more than a loss of consciousness of whatever chemical world you currently percieve, and thus exist as a contributing component of a vital, intelligent, life creating force. And if you wished to percieve the chemical world again (another biological life!) you can do so, but your brain would be at the mercy of the era, environment, and of course the biological lottery. That's to say, WE ALL exist indefinitely as an immortal force, working collectively as existing entities, ensuring where life can develop, it does.

In the grand scheme of things, we are probably just one force, one gear amongst many, all working together in some fucked up, incomprehensible, yet perfectly functioning well oiled machine known as the Cosmos.

I believe it's possible to find salvation through science. Science is afterall my religion, and the universe, my membrane!

However. HOWEVER. However science hasn't exactly been able to DISPROVE the life force whimsically manifested itself out of thin air into the form of a Flying Spaghetti Monster to ensure we don't eat linguine noodles on Tuesdays, and never with sausages as they are sacred. Also "don't steal!" along with some other good morals so we KNOW it's legit.

A lot of people ask, "would scientists really need to disprove something so utterly absurd?".

Well those are the people who have lost integrity. The Flying Spaghetti Monster shows no mercy to those who have lost integrity.

Enlighten yourself through science.. We are all the same! All life is the same! I feel enlightened and thus try to act on my God-given understanding of morality and ethics 100% of the time. Do you?

Does anyone else share similar views?



tl dr: We are immortal as one. We are God as one.

Edited by android313 (05/31/11 10:55 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14540152 - 05/31/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I like chocolate donuts.

  If evolution became aware of itself it would self destruct.  Let's at least hope so.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: Icelander]
    #14540269 - 05/31/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

given that we were created by this force, it is, in a very literal sense, our God.

I feel enlightened and thus try to act on my God-given understanding of morality and ethics

So.. Evolution taught you to say please and thankyou?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313] * 3
    #14540358 - 05/31/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Evolution is NOT a force. Not much need to read beyond that total misunderstanding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540496 - 05/31/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Evolution is NOT a FARCE

I'm going to respectfully disagree.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14540530 - 05/31/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

android313 said:
Is anybody else fascinated by it?

It is afterall the life force; the force that continues to push forward the development of life. It is the force responsible for encoding the DNA sequence (instructions how to build [insert creature]), in every little living thing, all with a common organic chemistry, too. Its purpose, from what we can tell, is nothing more than to set up an abundant and diverse system in which life can strive and continue to develop.






What do you base all this on? 

Evolution is not a force, its a process, an emergent trend.  How can you ascribe a purpose to this?

Far from 'setting up an abundant and diverse system', the mechanisms by which it occur seem to cause plenty of death and debilitation.  It seems pretty arbitrary to call this a positive.

Quote:

And after billions of years of progress, we humans, are the SINGLE most complex beings this force has created. This ABSOLUTELY makes us special.




What do you base this on?

Quote:

Now humor the thought: what if this force were to become aware of itself? How would that appear?




Evolution is not an entity, its a process or perhaps the quality we ascribe to the process.  It is no more capable of conciousness than 'running' is capable of conciousness

Quote:


Every living thing, every single one of us, is its attempt at a more efficient, more capable life form.




How so?  To observe an 'attempt' in this example seems pretty arbitrary.



Quote:


In the grand scheme of things, we are probably just one force, one gear amongst many, all working together in some fucked up, incomprehensible, yet perfectly functioning well oiled machine known as the Cosmos.




And you base this on what?  How do you determine the cosmos is a well oiled machien?  These qualities seem, again, just an arbitrary description of something that exists.  Is the consideration you use to reach this determination a falsifiable process?  I wouldn't think so: seems you could take any arbitrary universe and reach the same conclusion: thus demonstrating the quality is worthless and misleading.


Quote:

tl dr: We are immortal as one. We are God as one.




How does any of the forgoing, or anything else, support that conclusion?  What are you defining God to be?  It seems this is yet another philosophical claim that mentions god for emotionally satisfaction but that simply uses an ad hoc dissimilar definition of the word- a dishonest practice that tends to communicate something you don't actually believe (or fools yourself into believing something that your argument doesn't actually prove). 

How do you support these claims, particularly: "We are God as one."?

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: johnm214]
    #14540639 - 05/31/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

like everyone else is saying, evolution is a process, not a force...

but it is not the competitive process that Darwin imagined, evolution is primarily cooperative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: johnm214]
    #14540699 - 05/31/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

  It is no more capable of conciousness than 'running' is capable of conciousness





Yeah, but perhaps 25,000 years from now, running will have become self-aware. Don't count it out. :nono:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14540957 - 05/31/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Actually where's the studies to prove it isn't conscious? Maybe studies are conscious.  Hey maybe even some of the posters here are conscious.  Well,:blush: that's pushing it but you get the idea.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14540983 - 05/31/11 02:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
like everyone else is saying, evolution is a process, not a force...

but it is not the competitive process that Darwin imagined, evolution is primarily cooperative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer




Primarily?  That doesn't really make sense to me.  Nor does it seem to be substantiated by your link.  I dont think you can say there is an objective hierarchy to the processes of evolution by natural selection.  In any case, all the processes are typified by struggle - struggle against decay and entropy.  Whether you choose to call that cooperation or competition is a matter of taste (I like to analogize it to the US and USSR's relationship during WWII.  We were allies and enemies at the same time, such a dual relationship is the norm not the exception.)

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14541451 - 05/31/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Evolution is NOT a force. Not much need to read beyond that total misunderstanding.



QFT.

It's not a force, or a ladder leading to ultimate perfection. It's just the result of natural selection.

Nature did become "conscious" of itself, as much as is possible, at least.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: DieCommie]
    #14542183 - 05/31/11 07:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
like everyone else is saying, evolution is a process, not a force...

but it is not the competitive process that Darwin imagined, evolution is primarily cooperative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer




Primarily?  That doesn't really make sense to me.  Nor does it seem to be substantiated by your link.  I dont think you can say there is an objective hierarchy to the processes of evolution by natural selection.  In any case, all the processes are typified by struggle - struggle against decay and entropy.  Whether you choose to call that cooperation or competition is a matter of taste (I like to analogize it to the US and USSR's relationship during WWII.  We were allies and enemies at the same time, such a dual relationship is the norm not the exception.)





I agree, you cannot ignore the struggle and competition or minimize it because it's not so pretty.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: Icelander]
    #14543496 - 05/31/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not ignoring the competitive nature of natural selection just because it isn't pretty. The earliest stages of cellular development relied far more on horizontal gene transfer than reproduction and random mutation. Without this cooperative process it would have been impossible to achieve such a level of biological complexity from the chemical soup. I became convinced about this after reading an introduction, written by Carl Woese, to a textbook about Archaea. He theorized that the first nucleus was actually a virus living symbiotically in a prokaryote cell. sure the development of humans from chimps was mostly based on competitive selection, but the development of early metabolic processes and cellular structures was primarily cooperative, and those are definitely the more significant evolutionary developments.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14543612 - 06/01/11 12:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I tend to think of the universe and everything in it as a force though some aspects are more obviously exercising their momentum than others. But just because it's a force, that doesn't imply intent. It's a force, ultimately working towards nothing it seems. There is a reason for everything (what came before), but no meaning as far as I can tell.

Quote:

I believe it's possible to find salvation through science. Science is afterall my religion, and the universe, my membrane!




What do you need to be saved from?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: Rahz]
    #14544502 - 06/01/11 06:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Depends on what one means by science?  The scientific method is pretty openminded imo and so would be the best of religions if you need to call it that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineandroid313
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14545394 - 06/01/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:


What do you base all this on? 

Evolution is not a force, its a process, an emergent trend.  How can you ascribe a purpose to this?





Oh hai. This is drug induced philosophy and nothing more. I'm agnostic x100, I have no idea what's going on. All claims are merely speculation. I mean, even religion could be correct for all I know. I just like to think outside the box and I like to share my thoughts. It was an interesting read, wasn't it?

And to continue the discussion: what are you basing your assumptions on? You're very quick to dismiss it as a force, any reason why? Regardless of what it is, a process, a trend, it's still relevant and for the large part, a complete and utter mystery.


I'm speculating everyone, don't take me seriously.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14545403 - 06/01/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

don't take me seriously.

You don't have to worry about that one.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14545429 - 06/01/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

android313 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:


What do you base all this on? 

Evolution is not a force, its a process, an emergent trend.  How can you ascribe a purpose to this?





Oh hai. This is drug induced philosophy and nothing more. I'm agnostic x100, I have no idea what's going on. All claims are merely speculation. I mean, even religion could be correct for all I know. I just like to think outside the box and I like to share my thoughts. It was an interesting read, wasn't it?

And to continue the discussion: what are you basing your assumptions on? You're very quick to dismiss it as a force, any reason why? Regardless of what it is, a process, a trend, it's still relevant and for the large part, a complete and utter mystery.


I'm speculating everyone, don't take me seriously.




So in spite of your total lack of understanding and too numerous errors, we are supposed to discuss the implications anyway? How does that follow?


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Offlineandroid313
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14545453 - 06/01/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

android313 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:


What do you base all this on? 

Evolution is not a force, its a process, an emergent trend.  How can you ascribe a purpose to this?





Oh hai. This is drug induced philosophy and nothing more. I'm agnostic x100, I have no idea what's going on. All claims are merely speculation. I mean, even religion could be correct for all I know. I just like to think outside the box and I like to share my thoughts. It was an interesting read, wasn't it?

And to continue the discussion: what are you basing your assumptions on? You're very quick to dismiss it as a force, any reason why? Regardless of what it is, a process, a trend, it's still relevant and for the large part, a complete and utter mystery.


I'm speculating everyone, don't take me seriously.




So in spite of your total lack of understanding and too numerous errors, we are supposed to discuss the implications anyway? How does that follow?




I don't know. I didn't ask you. What are you doing in my thread?
There is no* understanding. You don't have it either, buddy.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Evolutionary Force [Re: android313]
    #14545482 - 06/01/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have some basic understanding of how things work. If you are using a cell phone and the internet then you have used devices that I took some minor part in developing and/or building as a 25-year Silicon Valley technician, engineer and manufacturing manager.

My BS degree included university courses in biology, chemistry and physics in addition to computer science. Not as good as getting stoned and making shit up though...


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