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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
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Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth
    #14535430 - 05/30/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Introduction

For many years I have been very focused on the study of consciousness, especially the liminal or boundary pushing forms of consciousness- particularly dreams, lucid dreams, psychedelic and disassociative drug trips, meditative states, yoga, chanting, drumming and other methods of achieving altered states of consciousness.

This is a quest that I continue, and have benefited greatly from.

Lately I am developing an equal interest in the potential of legal supplements, super foods, vitamins etc for altering states of consciousness in a somewhat more persistent, holistic and subtle way.

For example, taking a dose of mushrooms may attain a profound alteration of consciousness, but supplementing a B-vitamin complex will have a more pervasive and lasting impact on your day to day mental state.

Psychedelics are like temporarily leaving your home (your normal mind) to go on a vacation in an exotic land (the psychedelic state of consciousness). Great for a new perspective.

But adding carefully chosen vitamins, minerals, herbs and neuro-hormones in the form of diet and supplements is like repairing, redecorating and renovating the home you live in on a daily basis.

Combine the two and you have something even better.

Melatonin

NOW - I specifically want to talk about Melatonin. I recently started supplementing plant-derived sublingual melatonin, and my research turned up some very interesting things that I think drug users with an interest in philosophy and psychology would be very interested in.

1. Melatonin supplementation is associated with longer, better sleeps and increased REM (dreaming) brain activity, as well as with longer, more vivid and more intense dreams.

Because dreams are themselves a major ASC (altered state of consciousness) anything that increases and intensifies them is of great interest to me.

2. Melatonin is produced by the human pineal gland. This is of great interest for several reasons. First, the pineal gland is also thought to (perhaps) be the source of the bodies endogenous DMT. Like DMT, melatonin is found endogenously in a wide variety of animals and plants, as well as humans.

As we know, DMT is a very potent and fascinating psychedelic. Also, DMT is thought to be associated with the dream state as well. So anything that stimulates the productivity of the pineal gland (as melatonin does) may also supplement or combine with the brains endogenous DMT in a way that could induce synergistic results, AKA melatonin supplementation MAY interact with endogenous DMT (which could explain the longer more vivid dreams).

Also, the pineal gland is associated with the third eye or psychic center in mystical systems, so melatonin supplementation is metaphorically like "feeding your third eye" which again makes sense in the context of the longer more vivid dreams (are dreamscapes spiritual realms that we perceive with the aid of the melatonin and DMT producing pineal third eye?)

Melatonin also has other fascinating connections with the drugs we know and love.

Consider : "Many psychoactive drugs, such as cannabis and lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), increase melatonin synthesis.[102] It has been suggested that nonpolar (lipid-soluble) indolic hallucinogenic drugs emulate melatonin activity in the awakened state and that both act on the same areas of the brain"

Interesting, No? Cannabis and LSD increase the activity of melatonin and may function by mimicking it? all the more reason to add melatonin (and vaporized cannabis) to your path of drug-shamanism.

Melatonin itself may be considered a psychoactive drug in its own right, because "Taken 30 to 90 minutes before bedtime, melatonin supplementation acts as a mild hypnotic".

But this is only the beginning of the miracles of melatonin!

It is also an incredibly powerful health preserving and life extending substance! It is an unparalleled antioxidant (it neutralizes the free radicals that are responsible for a large measure of aging and illness) and has been shown to inhibit and prevent cancer and tumors. "melatonin exerts a powerful antioxidant activity". This activity is actually more powerful than in other well known antioxidants such as vitamin C, because "Unlike other antioxidants, melatonin does not undergo redox cycling" which makes it especially effective.

Also, melatonin protects you from radiation, which in the aftermath of the Events in Fukushima, is now a primary issue of global concern. "Both animal [49] and human[50][51] studies have shown melatonin to be potentially radioprotective. Moreover, it is a more efficient protector than amifostine,[52] a commonly used agent for this purpose. The mechanism of melatonin in protection against ionizing radiation is thought to involve scavenging of free radicals.[53] It is estimated that nearly 70% of biological damage caused by ionizing radiation is attributable to the free radical, especially the hydroxyl radical that attacks DNA, proteins, and cellular membranes. Melatonin has been suggested as a radioprotective agent, with the proposed advantages of being broadly protective, readily available, orally self-administered, and without major known side effects.[54]"

As if this wasn't enough, Melatonin has also been shown to prevent and treat Alzheimer's and the Delirium associated with senility and old age. This suggests that melatonin has widespread effects in increasing brain function and clarifying cognition.

Melatonin is also effective for mood disorders, headaches and ADHD (hyperactivity disorder).

Not only that, but it actually makes you stay young and live longer!
"Research has supported the anti-aging properties of melatonin.

Some studies have shown that melatonin plays a crucial part in the aging process and that it may act as an anti-aging agent when taken by older adults. It has been reported in one study that while elderly people have different gene expression levels in 100 of 10,000 genes, administration of melatonin may reverse this change in gene expression thus making the genes of elderly people similar to those of younger people.[106]

One study conducted by researchers of the University of Granada’s Institute of Biotechnology found that consuming melatonin may neutralize oxidative damage and delay the neurodegenerative process of aging. When small amounts of melatonin were administered to lab mice, it reduced the oxidative damage caused by aging and delayed the inflammatory process, which in turn increased the longevity of the mice. "

Out of all the supplements I have studied, Melatonin is probably the most fascinating. Its natural relationship to DMT, Dreaming, Cannabis and LSD, and its numerous health benefits and life-extending properties, make it a truly marvelous substance. I am planning to double my dose as of tonight.

Thanks for reading!


Edited by Solomon Ash (05/30/11 11:44 AM)


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InvisibleThe Phleg
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14535462 - 05/30/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:billnye:

Melatonin is pretty sweet. I take it with Valerian before I go to sleep. That combo puts me on clouds.


--------------------
You wanna get high? Drink tap water.
--------------------


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14535492 - 05/30/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Don't be so quick to double your dose.  By over-supplementing melatonin, you can reduce your body's natural production.  Also, too much melatonin can disrupt sleep rather than aid it.


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 149
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: BothHands]
    #14535513 - 05/30/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Don't worry. Doubling my dose will only bring me to 2 5mcg tablets, which is what the bottle recommends.


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InvisibleMe_Roy
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14535548 - 05/30/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thx for the informative write-up.  I esp. like how you're clear to distinguish your anecdotal experience and speculation (such as the supposition that the pineal gland is the source of endogenous DMT) from 'fact.'

I look forward to reading more from you!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14535618 - 05/30/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I sold supplements for 20 years before retiring.  I used Melatonin for  maybe 6 months (cause I got it free) and never noticed a thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Icelander]
    #14535652 - 05/30/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Things like antioxidants acting in your body or radioprotective effects are usually hard to percieve directly, but they are still powerful in their own way.

Apparently a dose of 50 micrograms has dramatic effects on REM length and dreaming, so if you really want to "feel" it take ten 5mcg sublingual tablets.

:smile:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14535795 - 05/30/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I sold supplements for 20 years before retiring.  I used Melatonin for  maybe 6 months (cause I got it free) and never noticed a thing.




Your placebo receptors are very weak. :shrug:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14535803 - 05/30/11 12:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Of course but I was talking about sleep effects.  I tried does from 1/3 mg to 6 mg without effect.

Id rather eat a banana.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 149
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14535982 - 05/30/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Are you suggesting melatonin is a placebo?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14536051 - 05/30/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Let me put it this way.  After 20 years of selling, using, and watching others use, I'm disappointed in a lot of the claims made for "natural" supplements.  A lot of misleading claims are made for what these substances are actually capable of not to mention how new research 10 years later often shows how wrong they were and more.  I had lots of access to free supplements and so used them extensively for many years. To tell the truth I feel lots better physically with out them. 

But are they all placebo no.  Is the effect on people for most of these supplements placebo for the most part? I'd say most definitely.

Better to eat natural food, eat well, be active and especially reduce stress and like my dad who never took a supplement in his life you will likely be still going strong at 92.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 149
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Icelander]
    #14536087 - 05/30/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

Eat natural food, eat well, be active, reduce stress YES absolutely.

But would you benefit even more from taking the right supplements?

Most likely yes.

Does that mean ALL supplements are good? No. Some are probably harmful, others useless.

But when scientific research strongly supports significant benefits, and no side effects or adverse effects, why not use the tool?

The distinction between supplements and food can be pretty thin. For example, I take kelp, chlorella and spirulina tablets, but they are essentially just condensed food. In other case the supplement is just an extract from food.

If a food contains a valuable nutrient in small amounts, it makes sense to concentrate that nutrient if that is the best way to get enough of it in your diet.

For example, it is very difficult to get enough fiber from even a high fiber diet. Most doctors agree that supplementing fiber is very beneficial. And the main fiber supplements, inulin and psyllium husks, are completely natural plant products, essentially foods.

I don't see any reason to draw a strict line and say eating well and exercise is good but supplements are not.

Take it on a case by case basis, and don't rule out that the right supplement might make a big difference to your mood or health.

Omega 3 oils for example, or vitamin D, can make a huge difference to someone who is deficient. Many inland populations are deficient in vital iodine, which is best available in supplement forms derived from sea vegetables.

Just my two cents.


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OfflineSolomon Ash
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Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 149
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Icelander]
    #14536117 - 05/30/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"I tried does from 1/3 mg to 6 mg without effect. "

I should point out that I made the error in my main post of typing mcg (micrograms?) instead of mg (milligrams) which is actually the correct dose type used on the bottle.

My current does is (as of tonight) 10 mg, which is a small dose.

The wikipedia article says that 50 mg evokes a "dramatic" increase in REM length and dreaming activity.

So if you want to feel it, try that dose. 6mg may just have been too little for you.


Edited by Solomon Ash (05/30/11 01:44 PM)


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14536379 - 05/30/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"But when scientific research strongly supports significant benefits, and no side effects or adverse effects, why not use the tool?"

Without specific studies, and referencing the specific claims those studies support, this sentence is meaningless. One can make a scientific study determine nearly anything, but that doesn't mean it was done right. The science around nutrition is notoriously full of bullshit, because people make A LOT of money off that shit. Whenever science is involved with testing things that are products, there will inevitably be examples of skewed results and outright lies.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: xFrockx]
    #14536399 - 05/30/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Does the back of the bottle count?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14536463 - 05/30/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No anything on there should be cool.


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OfflineJordan Black
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: xFrockx]
    #14536522 - 05/30/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"Without specific studies, and referencing the specific claims those studies support, this sentence is meaningless. One can make a scientific study determine nearly anything, but that doesn't mean it was done right. The science around nutrition is notoriously full of bullshit, because people make A LOT of money off that shit. Whenever science is involved with testing things that are products, there will inevitably be examples of skewed results and outright lies. "

You have a few choices. One, you can believe the science saying something is good for you.

Two, you can question the science, examine the methodologies, and decide for yourself if you are convinced.

Three, you can decide that all science related to supplements is bunk and you wont believe any of it no matter what. In this case you are essentially choosing perpetual ignorance in the sense that you have closed the only avenue of knowledge available (peer reviewed and replicated laboratory studies). Of course, you could still choose to experiment yourself (not reading the studies and just using yourself as a guinea pig), but it would be better to at least experiment with substances that have been supported scientifically.

Skepticism is good, questioning science is good, but deciding that it is impossible to make informed decisions about what to put in to our bodies is defeatist and unhelpful.

A good rule of thumb is to look for controversy. In the case of soy, for example, there are hundreds of studies claiming benefits and hundreds claiming harm. In this case the prudent option may simply be to avoid soy.

With, say, spinach, however, there are thousands of studies claiming benefits and none claiming harm. It would be downright paranoid and illogical to imagine that these studies were all faked by a spinach lobby or sponsored by spinach companies. Real health research does exist.

With melatonin I am not aware of any studies claiming it may be useless or harmful, but there are many indicating it can be useful.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Jordan Black]
    #14536617 - 05/30/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"Skepticism is good, questioning science is good, but deciding that it is impossible to make informed decisions about what to put in to our bodies is defeatist and unhelpful."

Who did that here?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Solomon Ash]
    #14536695 - 05/30/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

Eat natural food, eat well, be active, reduce stress YES absolutely.

But would you benefit even more from taking the right supplements?

Most likely yes.

Does that mean ALL supplements are good? No. Some are probably harmful, others useless.

But when scientific research strongly supports significant benefits, and no side effects or adverse effects, why not use the tool?

The distinction between supplements and food can be pretty thin. For example, I take kelp, chlorella and spirulina tablets, but they are essentially just condensed food. In other case the supplement is just an extract from food.

If a food contains a valuable nutrient in small amounts, it makes sense to concentrate that nutrient if that is the best way to get enough of it in your diet.

For example, it is very difficult to get enough fiber from even a high fiber diet. Most doctors agree that supplementing fiber is very beneficial. And the main fiber supplements, inulin and psyllium husks, are completely natural plant products, essentially foods.

I don't see any reason to draw a strict line and say eating well and exercise is good but supplements are not.

Take it on a case by case basis, and don't rule out that the right supplement might make a big difference to your mood or health.

Omega 3 oils for example, or vitamin D, can make a huge difference to someone who is deficient. Many inland populations are deficient in vital iodine, which is best available in supplement forms derived from sea vegetables.

Just my two cents.





Quote:

Solomon Ash said:
I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

Eat natural food, eat well, be active, reduce stress YES absolutely.

But would you benefit even more from taking the right supplements?

Most likely yes.

Does that mean ALL supplements are good? No. Some are probably harmful, others useless.

But when scientific research strongly supports significant benefits, and no side effects or adverse effects, why not use the tool?

The distinction between supplements and food can be pretty thin. For example, I take kelp, chlorella and spirulina tablets, but they are essentially just condensed food. In other case the supplement is just an extract from food.

If a food contains a valuable nutrient in small amounts, it makes sense to concentrate that nutrient if that is the best way to get enough of it in your diet.

For example, it is very difficult to get enough fiber from even a high fiber diet. Most doctors agree that supplementing fiber is very beneficial. And the main fiber supplements, inulin and psyllium husks, are completely natural plant products, essentially foods.

I don't see any reason to draw a strict line and say eating well and exercise is good but supplements are not.

Take it on a case by case basis, and don't rule out that the right supplement might make a big difference to your mood or health.

Omega 3 oils for example, or vitamin D, can make a huge difference to someone who is deficient. Many inland populations are deficient in vital iodine, which is best available in supplement forms derived from sea vegetables.

Just my two cents.





I really don't disagree with that.  Like I said I don't think all supps are useless.  Many are over hyped to increase sales.  I also doubt that many synthetic vitamins actually have the benefit of that vitamin in it's whole food matrix.  I like whole food supps like wheat grass and such and I do use them.

What I do now is, on my mountain walks, pick wild edibles in volume and blend them up and drink them every day. I find this does the trick for me. In the winter however I will take some vit D supps.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Posts: 5,589
Re: Miraculous Melatonin: Mother of Dreams, Lover of LSD and Cannabis, Sister of DMT, Fountain of Youth [Re: Icelander]
    #14542888 - 05/31/11 09:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

melatonin + cannabis = win


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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