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skatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
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Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries?
#14534300 - 05/30/11 03:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Such as where does consciousness come from? If there is such a thing as soul or spirits?
Proof that after death is something or nothing? More insight into evolution and how the world was created?
What I'm saying is, if we could ever actually find these answers beyond opinions, by scientific means.
Also feel free to add questions to the list if you have any good ones.
Edited by skatealex2 (05/30/11 04:46 AM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide is with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: skatealex2]
#14534307 - 05/30/11 03:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Aleister Crowley, for one, endeavored to use the scientific method to explore spiritual experiences: "the Method of Science, the Aim of Religion." Check out the first half of his Book IV and various other writings if you're interested.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: skatealex2] 1
#14557812 - 06/03/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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No. Science is not exempt from the rest of reason and sensation, howsoever enhanced with instruments. Reason and sense, disciplined by the model of the scientific method is still derivative of the transcendental condition. Consciousness remains the 'eye which sees, but is never seen.' How could it be otherwise? Science addresses 'how' things work according to causal principles. Science does not answer 'why' things are the way things are, nor 'what' is the teleology - the purpose of the universe. We, being of the fabric of the universe, are derivative of the transcendental Absolute Cause (Aristotle). Science is not transcendental. Scientism is a false religion.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MLDSMDA
All good things in all good time



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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: skatealex2]
#14557847 - 06/03/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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“All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom.”-Albert Einstein
One day all of these will merge. Many of the ancients knew this, and their knowledge of the physical was from knowledge of the spiritual. I think it will be a long time before they merge again though. But it will happen. If humans were more spiritual, we would begin tying all of these seemingly separate fields into one strong rope again.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: MLDSMDA]
#14557869 - 06/03/11 09:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It could kill us all thereby answering our questions of What Comes After Death since death is the ultimate truth
Crazy shit like the god helmet can alter our states and make us believe we know the truth, whether we actually do is still to be decided
Also, Lucid dream machines
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MLDSMDA
All good things in all good time



Registered: 09/08/10
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: Wise Toad]
#14557967 - 06/03/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I don't believe death is the ultimate truth, I believe it's passage to a better or worse state of being through reincarnation. I just believe we would advance insanely faster as a race. Mind explaining what the god helmet is? And they make machines to induce lucid dreams?
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



Registered: 05/12/11
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: MLDSMDA]
#14557999 - 06/03/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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In my opinion science will never understand spirituality like spirituality will never completely understand science. I'm with MLDS on this one,I believe that a merger between science and spirituality is in order; it is my belief that when that time comes things will be revealed that we never fathomed possible. Like MLDS I believe that the ancient/indigenous peoples knew of this and the possibilities it brought.
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: MLDSMDA]
#14558067 - 06/03/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MLDSMDA said: Well I don't believe death is the ultimate truth, I believe it's passage to a better or worse state of being through reincarnation. I just believe we would advance insanely faster as a race. Mind explaining what the god helmet is? And they make machines to induce lucid dreams?
So you believe that death is a path to reincarnation, that is what you feel the truth is then. I used to believe it was a pathway to heaven, then I thought it was nothingness, and now I have no idea and just go with the flow.
Can all of those answers be the truth? No since they are mutually exclusive. We will only know the truth of what, if anything, is after death once we are dead; hence it is the ultimate truth.
Think about nonexistence of mind, when your in non-rem sleep you are not there
God Helmet
Well we do have some machines such as the Nova Dreamer or the REM Dreamer that make one more likely to end up in a lucid dream but we still do not have a machine that is capable of inducing lucid dreams 100% of the time. That is what I hope science to accomplish as the most spiritual and free I have ever felt is in lucid dreams
May all your dreams be lucid
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: Wise Toad]
#14558086 - 06/03/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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The heart and the mind need to merge for us to survive.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14558108 - 06/03/11 10:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Too true
Our current heartless organization will destroy us all if not checked
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



Registered: 05/12/11
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: Wise Toad]
#14558149 - 06/03/11 10:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'd go as far to say that the heart needs to overtake the mind and become the dominate force in our lives. In my opinion you can never lose the mind/ego but by keeping it calm and letting your heart be the dominate force all things shall be as they truly are.
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: don_vedo]
#14558164 - 06/03/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Never lose the ego? I beg to differ
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Luman
Inverting the Pleroma

Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 400
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: don_vedo]
#14558418 - 06/04/11 12:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
don_vedo said: I'd go as far to say that the heart needs to overtake the mind and become the dominate force in our lives. In my opinion you can never lose the mind/ego but by keeping it calm and letting your heart be the dominate force all things shall be as they truly are.
Lah'Kesh
Seems like this would make one act impetuously and with lack of the greater picture. I would side with c0sm0nautt. These are the two dualities that we must balance to attain something of a "perfect" state. I would say that this state could be perfect because it is not beyond change, it is perfect because it is one with change and change is inevitable.
If the natural order of the universe is upwards spiraling change, then the evolution of psyche of sentient beings in that universe should follow this standard, as we are because of the universe.
I do see where you are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume you are coming from a kind of archaic standpoint, where there is no sense in, say, building an entire civilization because it will doubtlessly fall someday.
But if evolution is such a natural part of the universe, as are we, then I would side with those "going with the flow", you could say. We have the ability to create such magnificent things. You could say that this ability is the fruit of eden, that we are not to act on it. I would say that this contradicts natural laws, to expand, to create.
Maybe, before the doom of our race, all of this will pay off, and we will be able to transcend time, dimensions, space, etc, and eternally avoid complete annihilation.
Couldn't that be our destiny in the far future as realistically as simply coming to terms with our destruction is, and kneeling before our executioner?
-------------------- "The soul? Here we have no use for such frivolities."
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Satyapriya



Registered: 01/18/10
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: Wise Toad]
#14558455 - 06/04/11 12:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I feel like science and spirituality will one day merge. There are new fields of sciences just starting out now such as transcendental psychology, and few others I can't remember the name of, that aim to venture into the unknown and answer some of these big questions.
We've taken some huge steps forward these last 100 years, with the invention of LSD, the invention of defibrillators and resuscitation, widespread use of ayahuasca, Rick Strassman's work with DMT, and then now this joint project known as "The Human Consciousness Project," which is quite fascinating if you look into it, ingenious really. If their theory is correct, and verified by multiple parties, I would accept that as scientific proof for life after death.
http://www.nourfoundation.com/events/Beyond-the-Mind-Body-Problem/The-Human-Consciousness-Project.html
This is a 3 year study that I believe is in its third year now. Anyone else ever heard of this? Know anything about its current progress?
-------------------- www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. ॐ Collectively Conscious ॐ is a community-powered, community-verified, alternative news/multimedia aggregation service for global citizens.
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jivJaN
yes


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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: skatealex2]
#14558495 - 06/04/11 12:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe it could eventually. We're not the first people to walk the earth. There were mysteries before, that aren't anymore. Why should we be different ? To think that it is impossible is to ascribe some sort of importance to yourself and the age you live in which could well be the very motivator behind human progress. It sounds strange and some people are motivated in different ways , but the truth is - We don't want to die. We either assume to know some things to gain comfort, or we work with what we have cause we're in such a rush to figure out how not to.
If all of mans actions and the changes this species has endured through the millenia are to be considered no other than the natural course of things, then one could easily see the possibility of our own anxieties being a necessary means to an end for the preservation of the species.
Either way, there is a design. Life itself works for its continuation. Species of organisms have worked to preserve themselves long before intellect as we understand it came about and brought us with a rational reason and the WILL to continue our experience.
The program, is hard for us to understand. The way i see your question is, will we be able to intellectually exceed its complexity.
I reckon we are well into that process. Just by having self awareness. No matter how poor the intellect might have been in the beginning, we became the dominant species of the planet very quickly. Its the self awareness that drives us to continue. Intellect develops exponentially, yet we are still troubled with the emotional aspects of our identity. The very fact, that we are able to conceptualize our own existence, is what provides us with such complex emotions. For the first time, a creature is able to see past its own survival needs , and it understands that "others" are working through the same concepts. The natural question to follow is WHY ? We want.. a reason. We want to know the purpose. The purpose of it all and the reason of it all.
But.. by taking on the pursuit for this, we are all (some of us unknowingly) accepting the idea that we are not the first in existence to experience self awareness.
This cool rant was sponsored by Cool Bong Rips® The smoke is cool, but the ganj is fire hot ! ™
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: jivJaN]
#14559038 - 06/04/11 06:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jivJaN said: This cool rant was sponsored by Cool Bong Rips® The smoke is cool, but the ganj is fire hot ! ™
Slow wide turns, brother.
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: skatealex2] 1
#14559099 - 06/04/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
skatealex2 said: Such as where does consciousness come from? If there is such a thing as soul or spirits?
Proof that after death is something or nothing? More insight into evolution and how the world was created?
What I'm saying is, if we could ever actually find these answers beyond opinions, by scientific means.
Also feel free to add questions to the list if you have any good ones.

No, imo nothing will ever get us there. Not science not spirituality etc. The Tao cannot be known. We make up stories and that is all.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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don_vedo
MerKaBa



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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: Icelander]
#14560011 - 06/04/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wise Toad said: Never lose the ego? I beg to differ :)
Mind explaining your reasoning behind this? Definitely not saying my way of thought is correct, and always love to hear the other side of things so that I may be able to open my mind and understand something from a different point of view.
I only say this because in my opinion ego plays a role in our survival, it keeps us going on a day to day basis and doesn't let us move away from the Earth and the material items we need to continue to live. From my experiences with mushrooms and other psychedelics "ego death" as we call it leads myself to times of complete unity with the universe, it is a way for me to sit back and observe life from a oneness point of view; when I come back to my everyday reality the oneness disappears and I am again enveloped in the light of my singularity and survival.
Quote:
Luman said:1 I do see where you are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume you are coming from a kind of archaic standpoint, where there is no sense in, say, building an entire civilization because it will doubtlessly fall someday.
No that is not what I was getting at but I guess I could see how my statement could lead to that assumption. I believe c0sm0 had a stellar point that I totally agree with, just decided to take it a bit further and share my opinion about it.
What I mean't was that I think the heart could be the dominate force complimenting the mind which has nothing really to do with civilization or what we do as a species. For myself I live life in modern society, I like to think I am heart based in a lot of what I do; this does not mean that I give up modern technology or anything that comes with it, just that I use the items and information differently then I would when I was more ego based.
Quote:
Luman said: But if evolution is such a natural part of the universe, as are we, then I would side with those "going with the flow", you could say. We have the ability to create such magnificent things. You could say that this ability is the fruit of eden, that we are not to act on it. I would say that this contradicts natural laws, to expand, to create.
Again not what I was getting at, it would be a shame not to act on our ability to think and create. We are natural beings living a life of constant evolution, I would agree with the idea of just going with the flow. I think for every action there is a lesson to be learned and that we as a species are at a critical point now. Either we continue on the way we are and in my opinion cause our own destruction, or we could go a more heart based route and find ways to live at one with our world creating a more symbiotic relationship with Gaia.
Quote:
Luman said: Couldn't that be our destiny in the far future as realistically as simply coming to terms with our destruction is, and kneeling before our executioner?
In my opinion the possibilities of our future are infinite and to try and comprehend them is pointless. In my opinion the possibility you speak of has the same probability of becoming reality as all other possibilities do.
Quote:
Icelander said: No, imo nothing will ever get us there. Not science not spirituality etc. The Tao cannot be known. We make up stories and that is all.
I enjoy reading your posts icelander because your very real and to the point. Although we may not share the exact beliefs I agree with your statement.
In my opinion we as a species make up stories to comfort ourselves and our fear of the unknown. Comprehending the Tao is like understanding the idea of infinitely large or small. Although we understand the concept and what it is supposed to mean, to wrap our heads around it and truly grasp the idea is impossible. These ideas are greater then, while being less than at the same time; they in fact are before it ever was and after it will ever be.
Lah'Kesh
-------------------- Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
Edited by don_vedo (06/04/11 01:11 PM)
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: don_vedo]
#14561055 - 06/04/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Only one intellectual mystery exists - Who am I?
But there's a mystery to every action we make, every guy pushing a trolley, every person driving a car, every waving friend. When you see it, you'll shit bricks. Too.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: circastes]
#14561185 - 06/04/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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How do you know what another will see? Like me he might find you to be totally wrong.
I can think of another intellectual mystery. What is death? I can most likely think of several more if I think about it for five minutes.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Do you think science could ever provide us with answers to some of our big mysteries? [Re: don_vedo]
#14561483 - 06/04/11 07:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
don_vedo said:
Quote:
Wise Toad said: Never lose the ego? I beg to differ :)
Mind explaining your reasoning behind this? Definitely not saying my way of thought is correct, and always love to hear the other side of things so that I may be able to open my mind and understand something from a different point of view.
I only say this because in my opinion ego plays a role in our survival, it keeps us going on a day to day basis and doesn't let us move away from the Earth and the material items we need to continue to live. From my experiences with mushrooms and other psychedelics "ego death" as we call it leads myself to times of complete unity with the universe, it is a way for me to sit back and observe life from a oneness point of view; when I come back to my everyday reality the oneness disappears and I am again enveloped in the light of my singularity and survival.
You got it, ego death
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